Expedition Trailer consideration [Archive] - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

OverlandXJ

January 1st, 2008, 08:15

With the new RTT coming this week and the fact that it takes all the roof area on the XJ i have been considering another trailer. I sold my 51 M100 last spring cause i couldnt bring myself to modify it.

Close to a year later and M416's and CDN101's are getting pricey and picking up an Adventure Trailer is not in the budget at the moment. Then lying in bed the other night i had a revelation. :looney:

A few years ago when my father retired and planned a move down south a bud gave him a trailer.. it's a bed section of a early 60's Chevy stepside pickup. Dad decided not to use it, and it ended up in the hands of one of my buds. I called him the other day asking what became of it. He painted, installed harness and taillights and hasnt used it in years.... come get it he says.

Looks like one of these with a tongue attached.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/chevystepside2.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/Stepsidebed1.jpg

I'm thinking, pull the rear bumper, side fenders and steps. This being a stepside it has no inner fenderwells... and has a tailgate for easy access. I could fab up a set of fenders like an M416, a hinged lid on top and i think it would look good. Similar to a 416 just a tad longer and a bit wider. Best part is it's not leaf sprung, it uses coils and trailing arms which would provide a good ride behind the XJ.

I'm heading over my buds to see this, take some measurements. I'll post up the pics later. Am i nuts... or does someone else see what i do?

OverlandXJ

January 1st, 2008, 09:58

Forgot the camera. This thing is going to work great.

The box measures 80" long and 54" wide inside, overall length is 10' from tongue to tailgate.

Need to install the hitch on my XJ and go get it. This will turn into a build thread.

:cheers:

Root Moose

January 1st, 2008, 14:46

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

IllianaXJ

January 1st, 2008, 15:28

Subscribed.

I'd like to eventually do the same kind of thing with a Comanche bed trailer.

OverlandXJ

January 2nd, 2008, 08:42

Subscribed.

I'd like to eventually do the same kind of thing with a Comanche bed trailer.

I had considered an MJ bed for awhile. Decided against it. Too wide to easily reach over the side and grab something i need. Wider on a tight trail, and tough to find a clean one here on the east coast.

The dimensions on this box will work well for me.

Ghost

January 2nd, 2008, 08:54

Would like to see some detail pictures of that suspension and how the trailer was built. If you take them.

OverlandXJ

January 2nd, 2008, 09:05

Would like to see some detail pictures of that suspension and how the trailer was built. If you take them.

I'll be taking pics of what i started with and it's transformation. :cheers:

RedHeep

January 2nd, 2008, 10:46

OverlandXJ

January 2nd, 2008, 10:58

I'd be concerned about leaving the stock suspension. Those arms are pretty long and connect to the crossmember between the frame rails. Doesn't leave you much room to connect a trailer tongue.

You can pick up a trailer axle and springs cheap, weld them in and get rid of the 10 bolt, drum brakes and all that mess. Plus you can pick your bolt pattern and run some jeep wheels.

Definately a cool idea though. My fleetside wouldn't work so well.

You sound familiar with this vintage truck. Your correct that the trailing arms connect to a crossmember.. but it's just in front of the box. The tongue was done by bringing the factory framerails (C Channel) in at that junction.. and a coupler added. They did a pretty good job.

Checked out www.abctrailerparts.com and they list an axle ~60" with 4.5" boltpattern with brakes rated at 3500lbs. But they can also build to suit.

I need to be carefull with how much i change on this... at what point would it be better to just fab from scratch. Maybe the next trailer once i see the shortcomings of what i end up with.

so thats a 10 bolt with drop out 3rd member?

RedHeep

January 2nd, 2008, 11:25

You sound familiar with this vintage truck. Your correct that the trailing arms connect to a crossmember.. but it's just in front of the box. The tongue was done by bringing the factory framerails (C Channel) in at that junction.. and a coupler added. They did a pretty good job.

Checked out www.abctrailerparts.com and they list an axle ~60" with 4.5" boltpattern with brakes rated at 3500lbs. But they can also build to suit.

I need to be carefull with how much i change on this... at what point would it be better to just fab from scratch. Maybe the next trailer once i see the shortcomings of what i end up with.

so thats a 10 bolt with drop out 3rd member?

IIRC, it's just a regular truck ten bolt with a cover, no drop out. I'd have to go outside and look :)

Northern has a 2000 lb kit for $160:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200330529_200330529

I wouldn't think you'd need 1 1/2 ton axle for that trailer, it was only a half ton setup from the factory.

I have a long term '66 project, so I've done a little wrenching on the back of that particular system.

karstic

January 2nd, 2008, 14:01

OverlandXJ

January 3rd, 2008, 09:20

IIRC, it's just a regular truck ten bolt with a cover, no drop out. I'd have to go outside and look :)

Northern has a 2000 lb kit for $160:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200330529_200330529

I wouldn't think you'd need 1 1/2 ton axle for that trailer, it was only a half ton setup from the factory.

I have a long term '66 project, so I've done a little wrenching on the back of that particular system.

The 3500# axle may be overkill but i'll also use it to haul firewood home, for the slight price difference i'll go with it.

Take a look under your truck. Mine def has a removable third.

OverlandXJ

January 3rd, 2008, 09:23

IIRC the Adventure Trailers use a trailing arm system with and air bag and shock. Not a bad system for an off-road trailer, independent suspension.

Get rid of the truck axle and weld in some stub axles and hubs w/ a 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern.

Exactly! When i saw that suspension i was pleasantly surprised. I originally towed this home years ago before it went to my bud. I did notice how well it rode behind the Jeep, and it was empty.

90Blue_XJ

January 6th, 2008, 13:41

Where are the pics???

OverlandXJ

January 6th, 2008, 13:49

Where are the pics???

:laugh3: I got carried away yesterday playing with the RTT and pulling a D30. Back is paying the price today.

I'll get it home this week and post em up.

IH8RDS

January 6th, 2008, 17:39

Good Idea. I always wished my M416 was a little bigger. If you put an axle under it, put the same one you have under your jeep. Then you will have a spare.

IH8RDS

January 6th, 2008, 17:40

Does it still have the wood bed?

OverlandXJ

January 6th, 2008, 20:17

Good Idea. I always wished my M416 was a little bigger. If you put an axle under it, put the same one you have under your jeep. Then you will have a spare.

Scott, i had been advised (over at EXPO.. your there too IIRC) that an axle with r&p will induce drag. So the plan is a 3500lb trailer axle with elec brakes... for about half of what an XJ 44 would cost. Not to mention the unnecessary weight.

While were back on the axle topic. How important is matching the track width with the XJ? I still need to see if an XJ width axle will fit with tires mounted and clear the trailer.

On the wood in bed, if it is it's probably rotted, there is a sheet of aluminum covering the bed. I'll know more later in the week.

IH8RDS

January 6th, 2008, 20:27

I used to have a 57 Chevy step side that had a beautiful wood bed, but I think that will weigh too much. I considered putting a wood bed in the M416, but weight was an issue. I just laid down a thin sheet of steel.

I didn't think about the drag, and those 44's are not cheap. My M416 is narrower then the Cherokee, but it pulls fine. Wider i couldn't tell you. Good luck. Sounds like a fun project and you already have a tailgate :)

OverlandXJ

January 9th, 2008, 10:30

Dawg

January 9th, 2008, 22:15

IIRC the Adventure Trailers use a trailing arm system with and air bag and shock. Not a bad system for an off-road trailer, independent suspension.

Get rid of the truck axle and weld in some stub axles and hubs w/ a 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern.
Adventure trailer just put there suspension under a M416 they are goint to sell the suspension as a direct bolt on chek it out
http://www.atreport.com/st1.html

Root Moose

January 10th, 2008, 06:35

$1200 is a lot of money for what that is. If you have the skills to restore/modify a M416 you'd have the skills to build something like that I'd think.

I'm big on buying stuff to save time but that is just too much money for what it is IMO.

IH8RDS

January 10th, 2008, 19:31

So... whatcha do google EXPO?! Good to see ya there. Lots of us over there now.

Yeah. lol It took me a while to find it. I have been to the site a couple years ago, but never registered. Its more in the direction that I want to go nowadays. Thanks for triggering that memory impulse.

$1200 is a lot of money for what that is. If you have the skills to restore/modify a M416 you'd have the skills to build something like that I'd think.

I'm big on buying stuff to save time but that is just too much money for what it is IMO.

My sediments exactly.

OverlandXJ

January 12th, 2008, 14:22

Heres a few pics of what i'll be starting with. The original wood bed is gone and replaced with 3/4" plywood and a sheet of aluminum cut to size over that. This will also be removed and steel welded back in.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer010.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer013.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer017.jpg

The tongue and suspension.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer011.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer012.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer015.jpg

I'm surprised how solid this is.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/dadstrailer014.jpg

Dawg

January 12th, 2008, 15:07

any idea how much it weighs ? Looks heavy

OverlandXJ

January 13th, 2008, 07:49

It does LOOK heavy, but it's much lighter than it looks.

Dawg

January 13th, 2008, 09:41

then that will work out nice are you going to leave the axel under it

OverlandXJ

January 13th, 2008, 09:57

Checked out www.abctrailerparts.com and they list an axle ~60" with 4.5" boltpattern with brakes rated at 3500lbs. But they can also build to suit.

;)

OverlandXJ

February 10th, 2008, 07:30

Brought it home yesterday.

I need to give it a lift to sit level with the tongue on the XJ. 4" should be real close. Get a set of 33's to replace the 31's.. and possibly some coil spacers should do it for now.

Fab a set of M-416ish style fenders, clean it up and spray it to match the XJ. Add some crossbars to mount the Overland tent, and call it good for a quick trip to central PA for Memorial Day.

After that i can swap the axle, possibly add airbags for the coils, water/fuel/propane mounts, a hinged lid, etc.

RedHeep... what bolt pattern is on these wheels?

EDIT: Forgot to mention. The track width is just under 2" less than the XJ measured outside of tire.

RichP

February 14th, 2008, 22:02

Subscribed.

I'd like to eventually do the same kind of thing with a Comanche bed trailer.

Watch that or you will suffer the wrath of Eagle....

RichP

February 14th, 2008, 22:04

Adventure trailer just put there suspension under a M416 they are goint to sell the suspension as a direct bolt on chek it out
http://www.atreport.com/st1.html

HOLY PRICE BATMAN, thats steep.

RichP

February 14th, 2008, 22:07

I wonder how well a front wheel drive Dodge aries K car rear axle would work.

Ghost

February 15th, 2008, 06:04

Watch that or you will suffer the wrath of Eagle....

LOL! That is a name I have not seen in a while! I wonder how he is?

OverlandXJ

February 19th, 2008, 10:50

Anyone know of an OEM coil to lift a TJ rear about 3"?

Looking for replacement coils for the trailer for this season without spending much. I'm considering airbags next winter along with new trailing arms.

RichP

February 19th, 2008, 11:15

OverlandXJ

February 19th, 2008, 11:22

The coils attach by rotating the pigtails in a bracket, then "sandwiched" with a bolt and plate inside the coil at the first wrap. No way to attach ACOS or slip in spacers. Need all coil.

I'll take a pic tomorrow morning to better show ya.

XJumpmaster

February 20th, 2008, 08:35

Wouldn't a ZJ or WJ rear coil work?

OverlandXJ

February 20th, 2008, 09:06

Wouldn't a ZJ or WJ rear coil work?

Thats what i'm asking. I know the guys running these 60-65 Chevy PU's are using TJ coils (and 70 Malibu) coils to lower their rigs about 3". The coil needs the pigtail on both ends.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/trailercoil001.jpg

OverlandXJ

February 20th, 2008, 09:08

Typing that i just realized my math error. If a stock TJ coil lowers 3" i would need 6" TJ coil to raise this 3".

I need an OEM coil that i can grab cheaply at the local upull that will raise a TJ 3". If ZJ will work i could easily grab a pair.

XJumpmaster

February 20th, 2008, 14:36

I would think they would raise it atleast 2". Aren't ZJs heavier than TJ in the rear? We get 2" of lift on our XJs using ZJ or WJ springs in the fronts, but my logic could be skewed a little.

OverlandXJ

February 20th, 2008, 21:45

I would think they would raise it atleast 2". Aren't ZJs heavier than TJ in the rear? We get 2" of lift on our XJs using ZJ or WJ springs in the fronts, but my logic could be skewed a little.

Your logic is dead on. I'm hearing that ZJ rears give a TJ 2.5-3" in the rear.

If TJ springs lower this suspension 3" the ZJ springs would equal what i have now... or damn close. So i need a 3" ZJ or 6" TJ coil...

I'm awaiting word on what guys with this vintage truck use for 3" lift.

OverlandXJ

April 17th, 2008, 10:36

Update:

I havent done a damn thing to this... :laugh3:

It's just sitting in front of garage as i slowly get other projects done on the XJ and elsewhere. Soon though...

GSequoia

February 5th, 2009, 15:55

Quit being lazy and work on it!

OverlandXJ

February 5th, 2009, 19:27

Quit being lazy and work on it!

Says the dude in warm, sunny California...

GSequoia

February 5th, 2009, 19:44

What are you smoking?

It's freezing and the weather is terrible right now!

(59 and rainy :cry: )

OverlandXJ

January 30th, 2012, 09:44

Look what finally is getting some attention..

Pulled it out from behind garage and starting to get it ready for use this year. I have a set of coils i wanted to try.. ZJ V8 Upcountry fronts. However these dont have the pigtail at top like the coils in the last pic.

Has anyone ever heated and reshaped a coil to add a pigtail? Wondering how difficult this is and if making a new coil seat and retainer would be easier.

Lowrange2

January 30th, 2012, 11:20

What are you smoking?

It's freezing and the weather is terrible right now!

(59 and rainy :cry: )

59 is FAR from freezing!!! 59 is perfect!

Look what finally is getting some attention..

Pulled it out from behind garage and starting to get it ready for use this year. I have a set of coils i wanted to try.. ZJ V8 Upcountry fronts. However these dont have the pigtail at top like the coils in the last pic.

Has anyone ever heated and reshaped a coil to add a pigtail? Wondering how difficult this is and if making a new coil seat and retainer would be easier.

Seems like it would be much easier to add a tube to the center of the plate up top just like the front of an XJ... Then maybe some sort of small retaining clip.