blown rad hose, problems to follow...

Engine... '97 4L with cold air intake, bored TB, 99 intake, Banks header, custom downpipe, newish cat, FW 50 cat back. 193* Tstat, new lower rad hose, old upper hose, Tuarus Fan w/DC controller.

Situation...
Out on the trail today going to a bow hunting site. Driving in 4Low (Aussie up front) doing about 25kph, breaking trail in about 1' 1/2 of powder. Everything was fine, but noticed about 10 minutes down the trail it was one line above normal temp. I kept an eye on the temp, but never got hotter so I continued on.

All of a sudden a gust of something from front of the engine bay, looked like hit snow bank, turns out it was a blown upper rad hose. Steam rolled and I shut it off and pulled over. I fixed it (will take pics of ghetto fab fix job later) put as much water as we had in it (little over 1L at the time) turned back and limped back to hiway. At hiway back in 2wd, pinging started. Kinda sounded like the time my tstat went and really overheated. Almost a loose bolt jingling around in a can, but temp still not crazy. Pulled over, rad overflowing (again) let cool, topped up and kept going.
Finally got to gas station. Temp stayed one line above normal whole way, if even a touch more I stopped and let it cool. At station grabbed some coolant and topped it up again.
Back on the road, things were good, again temp hovered one line above normal, but no more. Temp did change, after a cool down, at station, and after top ups it was back to normal, but quickly moved one line above within a few hundred feet of driving. Tuarus Efan was switched on full on the trail, open road shut off.

Finally after more pinging, and 2 stall/restarts temp went thru the roof and I shut it down. Popped hood, rad cap steaming, and now steam coming from bottom/front of exhuast manifold flange between it and head.

Pushed to parking lot which happens to be local garage. Thats where it sits now.

My thoughts;
cracked head or blown head gasket.
No other idea, obviously not a mech wiz here.

My ideas;
call around for engine swap, let garage swap
look at rebuild, on an engine that has overheated twice before, and now this
take to my normal garage, let them tell me what they think

Was not looking to spend much money on this rig for the next while. If I can swap for less than say $1500 I may bite the bullet. Otherwise its going to be up to what my mech says, and what the good people who will read this advise.

Thanks, for reading and for any thoughts on the subject.

How did the hose burst? Is it possible rubber chunks got into your system?

no idea how hose burst... too much steam pressure from constant heat is only thing I can come up with. Maybe just old hose failure?

Could have got some rubber in there I guess, I really know jack all about such things. Will answer any question about this though if it will help. Yes I am sitting here monitoring the post... sad but true.

How did it "burst?" Pics?

Since you said the lower hose was new and the upper was old, I can only assume it blew due to age. Both of my radiator hoses are new, but the heater hoses are not.....by reading this, I have a sudden urge to replace the heater hoses as well.

haha, well its sitting about 30 minutes from here, and didn't have my camera with me so no pics... wish I did cause my repair job was simply amazing if I do say so myself... included 27 zipties and the handle from my army collapsable shovel to replace blown part of hose.


anyway, think of a long ballon bursting, thats what the rad hose looks like. the outter rubber covering blew apart. it blew apart about 2"above t-stat housing, and about 2" long tear.
from the inner rubber which has the thread woven over it. there was no inner spring coiled instead to keep the hose form collapsing.

Sounds like a head gasket to me. Pull the head and inspect for cracks and check for warpage. If none , clean and install new gaskets and do a compression test. The 4.0 is very durable, you may be ok , if not your only out the cost of a head set and a few hours time. Remember, steam does not transfer heat to the sensor as well as liquid, when low on coolant and pressure the head is likey full of steam and very hot! Pinging in this circumstance is a sign of overheating. STOP turn off motor.

The Hard Struggler said:

Sounds like a head gasket to me. Pull the head and inspect for cracks and check for warpage. If none , clean and install new gaskets and do a compression test. The 4.0 is very durable, you may be ok , if not your only out the cost of a head set and a few hours time. Remember, steam does not transfer heat to the sensor as well as liquid, when low on coolant and pressure the head is likey full of steam and very hot! Pinging in this circumstance is a sign of overheating. STOP turn off motor.

Click to expand...

best news I've heard in the last 3 hours. Will be looking into that.
thanks

beakie said:

haha, well its sitting about 30 minutes from here, and didn't have my camera with me so no pics... wish I did cause my repair job was simply amazing if I do say so myself... included 27 zipties and the handle from my army collapsable shovel to replace blown part of hose.


anyway, think of a long ballon bursting, thats what the rad hose looks like. the outter rubber covering blew apart. it blew apart about 2"above t-stat housing, and about 2" long tear.
from the inner rubber which has the thread woven over it. there was no inner spring coiled instead to keep the hose form collapsing.

Click to expand...

Upper hose never had spring. Lowers did. But I haven't found a new lower hose with a spring in it due to "new construction"

Although I never had a problem without a spring in the lower hose either, so I suppose they are right about the "new construction"

sounds very headgasketty...

pop the head and if not cracked, re-use it. A cylinder head machine shop won't charge much to deck it to make sure its not warped, so its always wise to do that.

The Hard Struggler said:

Are you going to repair yourself?

Click to expand...

I will price out the costs of all parts, and determine if I can get the work done this weekend with a buddy or two.
Otherwise my mech gives me a good deal (cash n a bottle of Crown do wonders) so I will ask him his costs too.

I have never gotten into an engine before, so it would be a big task for me, not overly confident, but will try it.

Blaine, never knew that about the hoses, I may now invest in silicon ones now if I can find some at a good price... you or others may know if its worth it or if stock is good enough??

WheelinJR, if I can find a shop around here to do that I'll have to look into it, but not a lot of options around here for machine work. Thats why I am thinking of grabbing a low milege engine and swapping it in, wrecker won't part out an engine.

The Hard Struggler said:

I think the last head set I bought from napa was around $60. Any body with two hands and some brains can pull a head , you CAN do it. I learned so much with the first Jeep head I pulled. Just look on the bright side , if the head is bad your over half way to pulling the motor!

Click to expand...

Hadn't looked at it that way, haha, nice.

On a lighter note, my buddy was looking through his hunter info book for this year, just browsing around and noticed that the area we were going to go hunting in was closed Nov 30th. Where he normally goes is open for bow another 11 days, but we hadn't thought of looking for where we were going... even bow is already closed. So the Jeep gods were looking out for us I guess.
To think he thought the Jeep had just crapped out, No No my friend, it was looking out for us, sacrificing itself for our greater good... snif snif, bless its blown gaskets!

Before you get into pulling thr head have the shop replace the hose and do a cooling system pressure test, that will tell you if there is a bad gasket or maybe just a bad freeze plug.
While they are at it have them replace the thermostat.
Keep your fingers crossed this my wind being a cheep fix.

Hey beakie, absolutely nothing stresses me out llike my dd baby being out of commission, I really feel for you. One year ago I had nearly same issue, coming home from work, close eye on guages as always, temp went up slightly, pulled over, blown upper rad hose! I didn't think it even had time to overheat but it was already too late. That night I replaced ALL the hoses, but early in the next week had oil in overflow, not the time of year for me to screw around with it, even if I did have the balls to go at a head gasket it wouldn't be on my dd first I dont think. Anyways, the temp guage isn't always accurate when your in an overheating mode, steam as was mentioned earlier, doesn't register on the temp guage. My mechanic didn't even check for head warpage, just new head gasket, and voila! Now it did take about 6 months of me constantly changing the rad fluid in the overflow to remove the oil from the cooling system but it eventually stayed green. No rad fluid in the oil though luckily I guess. This time of year is no time for these major problems, maybe not major to a lot of the guys on this forum but major to us eh? I had no pinging in my situation though, well all the best, and good luck, pm me if you have any questions. All the best.

lamula said:

Before you get into pulling thr head have the shop replace the hose and do a cooling system pressure test, that will tell you if there is a bad gasket or maybe just a bad freeze plug.
While they are at it have them replace the thermostat.
Keep your fingers crossed this my wind being a cheep fix.

Click to expand...

I can do a hose, done lower before, rebuilt upper with mod tonite.
Had the flush advice on another board, but my thinking is since there was a visible leak at the exhuast manifold, there is a leak somewhere. Not sure how they would get it upto OP temp, so it may not be there (or as noticable) when its cold.
T-stat was working, fluid was flowing ok, there was some burping while I was putting in more water/coolant when I topped it up, but other than that, I really think the overheating blew the gasket.
Bad case I pull the head, get it checked, its all good and I put in new gasket anyway. not a bad thing. Worst case, engine swap for lower milege unit (250k+ on this one)... again not bad thing.
Thanks for more options tho, especially the cheaper to fix ones.

Head isn't all that difficult. Remove power steering pump, serpentine belt, Remove intake manifold, exhaust manifold, valve cover, and then finally, the head. The older cast iron ones are a bit heavier and my friend thought it was very heavy, although I lifted it up without issue. However a cherry picker would be nice for lifting it and getting it into position...

when a pressure test is done they use a test cap in place of the rad cap and apply 15 psi air pressure. it will ether hold pressure or leak out, nothing to do with getting it to OP temp. takes 15min. to do the test.
The test is fast and shows where the leak is without the risk of 212 degree fluid.

Well no forward movement yet, in need of some advice or thoughts on next move.

Talked to my mech, he says my first move should be to replace upper rad hose, refill coolant and give it a shot, Worst case that doesn't fix it, I'm out a bit of Prestone.
Next if that didn't fix it, pull the head, xray (deck if needed), new gasket and that should be it. He didn't mention him doing it, he is all for giving advice when needed, and figures I can do it myself no problem, I am feeling better about it myself after reading about it on here.

Bare minimum, new hose, prestone and trailer $125.
Xray, deck, gasket, bolts and such approx $250-300 more
Called wrecker, delivered 106k engine from '98 $800, my mech will put it in for $400 cash.

Obviously I'll try bare minimum first, but with my engine having over 250k on it now, is it worth it to get the newer engine and spend the money to put it in?
I don't mind spending the money, especially if it seems worth it.

Thanks

Truck is home, new rad hose, coolant, and stop leak... steamed last half of drive, over pressured at buddies garage where I'll be doing the work... problem not solved.

Torn between lower milege engine and just new gasket.