Performance Spring

[wingnutooa]

did a six month search for valve springs that didnt require any machine work.

found this in austrailia


www.performancesprings.com.au (http://www.performancesprings.com.au)

Valve Spring PN 5003

speak with Allen Waye

less than 100 bucks for a set and that includes shippping. (depending on the value of the dollar):smsoap:

Installed height of 1.650 = 95 seat pressure.

perfect for installed height of 1.64.

coil bind of .970!!!!!

and the ID and OD are perfect for running stock spring retainers

this is an absolute gold mine for high performance valve springs and in my opinion this should be a sticky or included in some high performance sticky.

now for my real question.

i have installed the comp cams 262/270 in my jeep.

this cam has about .493 and .512 lift at the valves

(hence the search for springs....comp's recommended springs required machine work, different retainers and still had 300lbs at installed height)

i didnt want to mess with a knock sensor acting up so i only had .020 taken off the head to deck it.

i read some threads a while back somewhere that said this cam was surprisingly streetable despite what the numbers look like.

well its in my jeep and the the springs are all working great and it idles fine but when i try to go it leans out. (didnt know this untill it caught my carpet on fire in the back seat above the muffler)

took a break, played some guitar hero...

fixed the exhaust leaks. same problem only worse.

i've been searching this site trying to find what # injector to install to fatten it up a little but i dont see it.

any ideas?

NOTE: i also pulled my air box and opened up the intake side but needed a new muffler, the only muffler i had was slightly smaller than my last one and now it seems worse than it was before the exhaust change. (fixed cracked exhaust and installed new 2" muffler)


and for those of you that cant read good.....

:explosion :repair: :geek: :repair: :flame::guitar::read::repair: :gonnablow :compwork: NAXJA

[streetpirate]

drive up to portland and play me at guitar hero, if you can beat me I'll help you :)

[JTwthaXJ]

Sounds good minus the part about catching the carpet on fire and the leaning out. The largest factor determining the injector size is probably the year of your Jeep. Whats the year? I assumed that you stroked it... correct... A buddy of mine and I built his 4.7L stroker and put 24# injectors on his with his stock HO cam. His is a '91 HO and I think the stock injectors were 19#s. I am about to build mine and am going to use 26#s with my stock cam from my '97. The springs sound like a good deal, what kind of rocker arms are you using and whats the ratio?

JT

[wingnutooa]

i'll :twak: you at guitar hero....

well maybe... but this isnt really the place for GH "bench racing"

my jeep is bone stock except for the cam and "intake"

the head was gone through and decked

i opted to stay with lower compression for now to avoid problems with other sensors.

the springs are an awesome deal and cheap.

i have stamped rockers but would like to go with a roller, i wouldnt go any bigger than 1.6 though. at 1.7 i would have .544 lift at the exhaust valve and i dont need that.


Jeep is an '87


(sweet child of mine, expert, 5 stars, 221,000 points, carved forever into the bathroom wall...-till i beat my score again..:guitar: )

[streetpirate]

i'll :twak: you at guitar hero....

well maybe... but this isnt really the place for GH "bench racing"



(sweet child of mine, expert, 5 stars, 221,000 points, carved forever into the bathroom wall...-till i beat my score again..:guitar: )

this is the perfect place for gh bench racing,
the only stats ive got written down are from a year ago,
the first time i beat freebird
261k
85%
4 stars
I'll get you something more current later

[wingnutooa]

if you can beat Hangar 18 by Megadeath on expert then we'll talk!

that song took me a week to get through it.!

guitar solos are 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

4 or 5 through to 9 are back to back

PS: how do i change/add a signature?

[streetpirate]

you're pretty good, i did 185k last night on sweet child, but im bad at using starpower for max score.

and yeah, i can beat hanger 18 on expert

[wingnutooa]

oooooo a duel then....


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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[streetpirate]

wait until you play 3, the battle with Lou is frricken hard! cant seem to beat it, but it is the last song.

[wingnutooa]

a friend has it...i'll have to play it.

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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[wingnutooa]

my jeep does have High Impedence Injectors doesnt it?

are there any other factors that could cause a lean run condition besides the injectors?

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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[streetpirate]

yes, high impendence
what do you have for injectors now, stock? run 24lb mustang ones
make the adjustable map sensor,


i average about 85% on hanger 18

[wingnutooa]

i was thinking about going with the LT1

they are 24# at 43.5 and about 22 at 39psi so if i am not happy with them i can just get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and bump it up to 24 or even a little higher.

i'm also going to run a couple wires into the cab from the o2 sensor so i can hook a meter up to it while i'm driving. that would be a huge help in dialing it in.

is "make the adjustable map sensor" a typo or can i actually make mine adjustable?

I average about 85% on hangar 18

dang now i'm gonna have to play it again and see what i get...
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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[streetpirate]

http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/MAP_adjuster.html

http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoMAPsensor.htm

shouldent need the fpr with the adjustable map, the map mod will trick the computer into running longer duty cycles for the injectors.

[wingnutooa]

that sounds good. i'm goin for it.

now i'll just go with whatever injector is the cheapest and adjust accordingly.

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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[wingnutooa]

picked up some LT1 injectors and a autometer A/F guage and i'm going tonight to get some parts for the adj. MAP. i'm going with some sort of knob though and it'll be mounted in the cabin.

that way i can adjust on the fly to the driving conditions and style etc...

played GH3 last night. pretty fun. the lag is a little different from 2 but it wasn't that hard to get used to.

only played a few songs, spent most of my time trying to complete One by Metallica.

79% once and 78% the rest of the time.

about 10 tries.

that song is harder than Six in GH2 (odd....they both have numbers for names)


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http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/OOAsig.jpg (http://www.wingnutooa.proboards25.com)

[streetpirate]

i do good on one in practice mode, but i always die somewhere in the "darkness, imprisoning me" fast part, i just run out of steam with all that crazy fast strumming

[wingnutooa]

UPDATE!!

so my jeep still doesnt run right.


i put the LT1 injectors in and now it runs rich.

so i built the map voltage adjuster hooked it all up along with an A/F guage from autometer and when i would flip the switch to engage the map adj. the engine would die.

in addition to that the a/f read dead rich constantly.

got a new o2 sensor and the guage works good.

read the instructions for the map adj a little better and figured out that the author's purple wire and MY purple wire were going to different places. so i fixed that and now the map adj works the way its supposed to.


heres the problem

if i adjust the map to where the a/f reads stoich at an idle, the engine wont accept any load without popping, if i adjust the map to where it's just on the lean side of the stoich zone (last two red LED's) it will idle rough and lumpy like i would expect the cam to do and is easier to drive yet still has some popping and will load the spark plugs up.

why would the spark plugs foul with gas if the a/f is saying its not getting enough?




:flamemad: I want to drive my jeep!

i did manage to get it out and take a couple pics but was unable to take it to get our tree yesterday.


http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/jeepa1.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/jeepa2.jpg



http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/jeepa3.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/tree.jpg

[SteveT]

Is that where you sit while wishing you could drive?

http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/tree.jpg

Hang some ornaments on that sucker.:laugh3:

[wingnutooa]

i also think that there should be a definitive injector thread.

people can share what injectors are what and maybe a chart to put it all on.

like i just learned while searching for some LT1 injector info that the LT4 injectors run at 28.5 # at 43.5 PSI

[wingnutooa]

so do i know more about internal combustion engines than anyone else on NAXJA or do they just not want to help me.

i've built many engines i know the workings of the internal combustion engine and carbureted engines inside and out, i can build a small block chevy with my eyes shut and one hand tied behind my back and i'm starting to want to learn about fuel injection and computer systems.

this is infinetely hard when nobody is willing to help me unless i play them at guitar hero (with the exception of the map modification, which i did, thanks for the links)


how come street pirate is the only one putting his $0.02 in?

the only other thing i've been told is to go with bigger injectors which i was going to do any way i just came here to figure out which ones to get!


HELP ME!

[wingnutooa]

PS:

Just cut the muffler out and welded in a straight pipe to see if i was choking it and now it runs closer to stoich at an idle with the map adjusted all the way to lean but now i cant even drive it because of the popping. not to mention its too loud to be legal.

[streetpirate]

i cant read plugs, but try this.

stock voltage is 5, right? so it should run great at 5 volts, with the exception fo being really rich.
you cant really tune anything but idle with a narrowband O2.
anyways, pretend that the map voltage is like your carb jet, start at 5 volts, and tune from there.

start rich, and tune down

[streetpirate]

what lbs are the lt1 injectors you got?

[streetpirate]

you know popping is lean, right? popping, pinging, and surging is lean, bogging and poor throttle responce is rich

[wingnutooa]

well thats what it's doing which would coincide with the A/F guage, but in addition to that it also fouls spark plugs blows black smoke and has some tremendous black buildup in the tail pipe

LT1 injectors are 24# at 43.5 PSI and between 21# and 22# at 39 PSI which is what my 87 runs for stock fuel pressure.

and if i adjust the map sensor voltage untill the A/F reads stoich or rich it wont drive at all., i'll try again when i get home i guess.


thanks for the help...

is there any way the computer could have taken a dump? it doesnt really make any sense to me but why am i fouling plugs and blowing black smoke when a reading taken directly from the o2 says i'm running lean.

[wingnutooa]

and i know the adj map voltage is working because at an idle i can turn the 1kPot and the guage will go from lean through stoich to rich.

i have also adjusted it while i was driving and if i try to richen it up it will start popping worse and backfiring.


(not sure if this is correct but my experiences have taught me popping out the exhaust is rich and popping out the intake is lean)

main source of confusion.

why wont my jeep run right when the a/f reads stoich? thats the optimum ratio,

[streetpirate]

is your o2 disconnected from the factory harness?
the gauge should read richer than stoich under accel, and less than stoich when cruizing under part throttle

[wingnutooa]

no it's hooked up.

[streetpirate]

get a volt meter hooked up to the map adjuster to tell what voltage you're running it at.
set it at 5 volts or dissconnect it and run stock wiring, whats the o2 gauge say?
Sorry man, its just so frickin hard to tune a motor with a narrowband. the idle is the only thing you can really set.


put your stock injectors back in and use the map adjuster to richen it a bit?
how does it run with the bigger injectors and stock map voltage?

[JTwthaXJ]

Hey do they make these for LS1 valves? Doing the head right the first and last time... Port and polish, big valves and open the combustion chamber a little so that this thing doesn't run the same compression ratio as my race fourwheeler... 110 octane is expensive

[wingnutooa]

thats the problem....got reman injectors and had to send my old one's back.

i think i'm just going to pull the cam and get an HO cam or something.

i'll need to go back to stock injectors though...

[wingnutooa]

Hey do they make these for LS1 valves? Doing the head right the first and last time... Port and polish, big valves and open the combustion chamber a little so that this thing doesn't run the same compression ratio as my race fourwheeler... 110 octane is expensive



??

exactly what is your question?

do they make what for LS1 valves?

[wingnutooa]

and i got ornaments on it...

http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/Photo-0708.jpg

[streetpirate]

http://euroross.blogspot.com/charlie%20brown%20tree.JPG

[JTwthaXJ]

Would like to know which springs and retainers of theirs to use with LS1 valves? I know it may be a little over kill but I would rather do it right and not have tweaking the motor after the initial install...

[streetpirate]

Email the company that question, they know more about that than we're going to

[wingnutooa]

measure the valve stem diameter and compare the valve lock groove to the stock valves.

i personally would get new valve locks but if the diameter is EXACTLY the same and they are the same length you should be okay there.

you will need to put the valves in to see what your installed height will be.

or since you know what stock installed height is just measure the difference from stock to what your LS1 valves will have.

that will give you your installed height.

once you have that you can take your cam specs, rocker arm specs, and figure out what your lift will be at the valve and find a spring that has the right seat pressure (about 100 lbs) at installed height and will not coil bind before your valve is all the way open. (coil bind is when every coil of the spring is touching eachother and it wont collapse any more)

some spring companies will give you various seat pressures at different installed height, you can take this and ball park what your seat pressure would be at your new installed height.

if you're doing this much work to the head i would just have your spring cups on the head machined out (or bushed up) for these springs i have found. that way you wont have to worry about coil bind or seat pressure.

just make sure that the installed height is the same as stock.

[wingnutooa]

http://euroross.blogspot.com/charlie%20brown%20tree.JPG


this is what last years tree looked like..... slightly taller but it was a young tree and wouldnt support the weight of the lights and ornaments

[SteveT]

http://www.geocities.com/wing_nut_vma/Photo-0708.jpg

Get a saddle for that pony, and you'll be all set.

[wingnutooa]

yeah now all i need is help with my jeep.


i think i'm just going to pull the cam and lifters out and sell them, then get a HO cam or something like it.

anyone interested in my cam and lifters?

[Slo-Sho]

Move the crank dampner to 12 BTDC on the compression stroke for #1 cyl.

VERIFY that the distributor rotor is pointing at the #1 post on the distributor cap. There is a sync sensor that times when the fuel injectors fire and it sounds like it's off.

[wingnutooa]

WOW!!!!!

this information is infinetly helpful thank you very much.



THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

12btdc is the factory setting?

i think i dropped the distributer in at 0, i thought the computer would adjust the timing accordingly

[wingnutooa]

i'm surprised at the indexing write ups.

supposedly even repair manuals tell you to install by "5 o clock" or some method similar.

Dino's installation procedure seems about the best except i dont feel comfortable with the 3 cm measurment as the points arent clear. the "rubber" is a CM by itself.

so does the 12 btdc do the same thing as setting it at zero and installing it at "5 O-Clock" or "3 CM to the left" of the rubber thingy?


also read an interesting peice on Rotor Phasing.

you can find it here

http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=793718

[Slo-Sho]

The 5 o'clock way will get you in the ball park. The way I do it hits the nail on the head and will work with cams that didn't originally come with the engine. You will probably have to shave the tangs off the distributor to get the rotor smack dab in the middle with the #1 cap post.

Personally, I modified my CPS to give more ignition advance so I set the distributor index at 17 degrees btdc giving a total of ~34 degrees ignition.

[wingnutooa]

so i can either use the 5 oclock method or the 12btdc method and either will work.

or is it just two different ways of doing the same thing.

how did you modify your CPS? (cam or crank?)

i've heard that crane cams have the drive gear slightly offset than a stocker but i'm not sure of comp.

are they the same?

and i also bought an o2 sensor the other day and the parts guy asked me if it was an M code or not.

told me to look at the vin.

so many digits in, no M so he sold me the "non" m code sensor,

what is the difference between these two sensors? are they interchangable or do they send different readings.?

[wingnutooa]

okay well i double checked with the guy at the local parts house and confirmed that the o2 sensor i got was the correct one for 87-90

he didnt say anything about an M code or anything but said it called for my part number.

only thing left to do now is adjust the timing

if i put a timing light on it where should i line the mark up or will it line itself up (ie: rotate dist. a few degrees adv or ret. and the computer keeps it at a set index)

[streetpirate]

sorry man, ive got buttloads of info on renix fuel injection, and almost none on renix ignition.
to the best of my knowedge, the dizzy doesnt even rotate, and if im wrong, im pretty sure that the computer would try as hard as it can to set the timing to whatever it wants.

[wingnutooa]

well supposedly i put it in wrong. and since thats my only lead, i'm gonna run with it.

[streetpirate]

is it a normal dizzy? ie: rotate for timing? i was thinking, and renix has no cam
position sensor iirc, so the computer only controls the advance, and you
should be able to set the base timing with no problem. i know you unplugg
the coolant temp sender, and hopefully the computer doesnt mess with the
timing at idle. do that and the 12* btdc. good luck and godspeed

[wingnutooa]

Dino's write up:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/dist_index.html

Jeep Girl and Speedracer's Thoughts:
http://jgandsr.blogspot.com/2006/03/jeep-distributor-indexing.html


cant find the link but one person just took a dremel to the hold down slot and made it adjustable.

i have two hold downs so i'm going to do a little checking and maybe just grind the entire thing off so i can turn it where i want.

[wingnutooa]

FIXED!!!

re installed the distributor to proper indexing and it runs great.

the only thing i didnt have time to do was notch the slot so i can put the trailing edge of the rotar .020 from the number 1 terminal.

it is right at the edge. 0.00 to -.002 from the terminal.

may notch later to acheive the .020


thanks to the few that helped.

went to scotts mills yesterday .


here's some pics

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=z8ynkrl.jgttl09&x=0&y=-6tjojv