• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Winter gas sucks!

M

MG_43

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Deer Park, Wa
Since they switched to all the crappy additives the mileage dropped 4 mpg.
I will be buying gas in the next county for the rest of winter (they don't have to put the junk in the gas).
 
Why do they put these additives in for the fuel?

Suposively it's so it won't freeze......but doesn't gasolene already freeze at an extremely low temperature already?

Who knows, it's probably just an excuse to keep us filling up sooner than usual.
 
I think it has something to do with the vapor pressure, the ability to evaporate depending on ambient tempurature. They add butane or other additives to enable the gasoline to "burn" better. In colder climates as the one I live in, I do notice a slight decrease in mileage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline will get you the basics, and a lot of good links. I had this same question a couple years ago when I was in charge of a fleet of delivery vehicles.
Hope this helps.
 
I believe we do that in one particular county here in Utah, too. We get inversion and this stuff supposedly burns cleaner but it does result in poor mileage and have heard about it tearing up engines too. Couldn't say if it's the same compount as what you guys have though.
 
Blaine B. said:
Why do they put these additives in for the fuel?

Suposively it's so it won't freeze......but doesn't gasolene already freeze at an extremely low temperature already?

Who knows, it's probably just an excuse to keep us filling up sooner than usual.
Click to expand...

It's an increase in oxygenates to encourage compleat combustion at lower temperatures.

Granted, if an engine is already in tune, it will combust fuel fully at low temperatures anyhow - fuel's just been burning worse since they've ramped up the additives in it over the last 15 years or so. Problem is most of the additives aren't fuels in their own right - so it's like trying to light a fire with wet wood. You can do it, but dry wood would be just so much easier...

Sometimes, they do something halfway intelligent and use alcohols (usually methanol and ethanol) as an oxygenate - so it's at least a fuel. However, most of them aren't that damned smart (especially here in CA - where it doesn't get that cold, either...)
 
Yea. I know how you feel. Here in Des Moines, I watch my mileage fall from 21MPG to 16 MPG all in one tank full.
 
techno1154 said:
Yea. I know how you feel. Here in Des Moines, I watch my mileage fall from 21MPG to 16 MPG all in one tank full.
Click to expand...

Same here. Gone from getting 20 on the highway to about 15 on the highway.
 
Could it just be the colder weather in general?? Things like Tire psi drops in cold as well, are you properly inflated?? Could be lost of little reason in mpg drop
 
Jeepin_for_life said:
The latest scheme here in Michigan is selling e85 or an ethonal/gas mix as regular unleaded.
Click to expand...


Can't sell E85 as regular unleaded, it won't work in all vehicles.
And chances are you have been burning E10(or 10% ethanol) for quite some time. MTBE is being phased out, and most everywhere that isn't SO inbred with the oil industry(think CA, or TX) already was using ethanol for the standard oxygenate.
 
I have the exact opposite experience, when I worked in NJ and commuted to pa I would buy gas in NJ as it was about .25-.50 a gallon cheaper. The NJ fuel was oxygenated and my winter mileage would go up about 1-2mpg with the winter fuel. That said it might have been because I drove with no or very little traffic so the cold air probably helped.
When i would buy gas in Pa I would lose 1.-2mpg on the same commute, same gas brand, Sunoco, same regular grade only more expensive. I think the 96+ OBDII motors were built for oxygenated fuels. I notice no change lately as I was still buying my gas in NJ, granted once a week when I get down there and burning maybe 3 gallons from the house to the train station then 61 miles home on Fridays. Now that I'm not commuting anymore I'm stuck buying my gas here in Pa and still paying that .30 cent tax difference up here. Mine is a 98, even my 97TJ gets better mileage with NJ gas as does the 97ZJ 4.0L.
 
Turfzilla said:
Could it just be the colder weather in general?? Things like Tire psi drops in cold as well, are you properly inflated?? Could be lost of little reason in mpg drop
Click to expand...
Possibly. Generally, any time there's a temperature change of more than 20 degrees, I check/fill the tires on the Jeep and my wife's car. You're right that p.s.i. can drastically affect mileage, but I've still experienced at least a 3.5 m.p.g. difference from just a week and a half ago here in Toledo while keeping on top of tire pressure.
 
Timber said:
Possibly. Generally, any time there's a temperature change of more than 20 degrees, I check/fill the tires on the Jeep and my wife's car. You're right that p.s.i. can drastically affect mileage, but I've still experienced at least a 3.5 m.p.g. difference from just a week and a half ago here in Toledo while keeping on top of tire pressure.
Click to expand...

I also think the gas companies, maybe not the refineries but the wholesalers, play games with the fuel mix and mix older gas in with the newer to get rid of stock and there is a lot of excess stock out there. Despite the media reports of record holiday travel most people I know have cut their consumption drastically. I cut mine by better than 80% by working in NYC and using the train, thats going back up now that I'm back home for now and working locally. Middle and lower income families are having big time problems with their gas budget tripling in the last 2 1/2 years. It's resulted in massive foreclosures and 'walk a ways' here in NE PA from the commuters. The quality of the gas is not there anymore either, gas used to last for a good 9+ months in my gas cans, I've noticed in the past 3 years that it starts to 'turn sour' after about 4 months and is downright nasty after winter is over, I usually dump the blitz cans in the jeeps every 2 months and go refill them for the snow blower during the winter and do the same for the mower gas in the summer. I guess I could use something like sta-bil just never got around to it.
 
w_howey said:
Can't sell E85 as regular unleaded, it won't work in all vehicles.
And chances are you have been burning E10(or 10% ethanol) for quite some time. MTBE is being phased out, and most everywhere that isn't SO inbred with the oil industry(think CA, or TX) already was using ethanol for the standard oxygenate.
Click to expand...

Very true but a station in Detroit was caught doing it.
 
w_howey said:
Can't sell E85 as regular unleaded, it won't work in all vehicles.
And chances are you have been burning E10(or 10% ethanol) for quite some time. MTBE is being phased out, and most everywhere that isn't SO inbred with the oil industry(think CA, or TX) already was using ethanol for the standard oxygenate.
Click to expand...

Yeah it'd eat fuel lines and there'd me massive gasolene spills all over.
 
Blaine B. said:
Yeah it'd eat fuel lines and there'd me massive gasolene spills all over.
Click to expand...

Not true......

Almost all the fuel lines used now contain materials that won't be eaten away by the ethanol.. That's simply another myth left over from the Gasahol debacle of the 70's and 80's.

Take Dodge minivans for example: The differences in the 3.3L system(flex-fuel) and the 3.8l(regular gas) lie in the motor and the ECM systems. The remainder of the vans(including the fuel system) are almost identical.
 
Jeepin_for_life said:
Very true but a station in Detroit was caught doing it.
Click to expand...

This sounds very fishy...... Without even involving any state regulations violated... After station owners ended up paying for tow bills and repairs to affected cars, they simply wouldn't save anything. I could believe someone making a mistake and pumping E85 into a tank that hold regular, but not intentionally.

The station my wife works for, is looking at adding e85 to their line-up. The company already offers it at two of their stations and the returns have been good considering the challenges. But, completely new tanks are required as the E85 will scour all the crap off the sides and bottoms of the tanks that previously held regular.
 
E85 has been causing issues in boats with aluminum and fibreglass fuel tanks. Ethanol concentrations about 15% cause excessive corrosion of the aluminum and dissolves the resins out of the fibreglass making it weaken over time.

Personally, I think E85 is a scam pushed on the public by the corn growing states. People are paying almost as much as regular gaslone which has 50% more energy per gallon. http://zfacts.com/p/436.html . If you look at the over production costs of ethanol its more expensive to produce than if you had bougth $110 barrel oil and refined it. Could be worse. Many folks believe hydrogen is a viable fuel for passenger vehicles.
 
Personally, I think E85 is a scam pushed on the public by the corn growing states. People are paying almost as much as regular gaslone which has 50% more energy per gallon. http://zfacts.com/p/436.html . If you look at the over production costs of ethanol its more expensive to produce than if you had bougth $110 barrel oil and refined it. Could be worse. Many folks believe hydrogen is a viable fuel for passenger vehicles.[/quote]


this is true, brazil has gotten e85 to work because of the amount of sugar cane that they have, and the low cost it can be achieved at. With e85 engines get worse mileage and make less power then on regular gas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Reasons for white exhaust smoke besides head gasket?
Replies
1
Views
825
RCP Phx
R
TheXJDrew
Royal Blue trail cleanup
Replies
0
Views
64
TheXJDrew
TheXJDrew
P
2K IDLE - Odd Shifting - TPS? (I know.. I know)
Replies
3
Views
2K
Unclewolverine
U
J
Cranks, Fires, Dies - 1991 Briarwood Restoration
Replies
17
Views
3K
Jam Master Jay
J
R
Fuel Gauge Troubleshooting
2
Replies
26
Views
4K
Rob Mayercik
R
Back
Top