cliffs last sunday

[CV95XJ]

decided to get down their one more time before it gets too cold, ended up being a really nice day, it wasn't too muddy down their, so we just rode the trails and had some fun, brought a quad, bike, and my cherokee, and my buddies 87 yj. heres the pics.

first stop of the day, mcdonalds breakfast.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad087.jpg
Ive got two friends that are pretty big guys, and they like to eat, ALOT. lol.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad092.jpg
Heres me, getting stuck first, it wasn't that the mud was too bad, just so flexed out, my open diffs weren't letting me get traction, I was so twisted here, that my hatch wouldn't close.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad096.jpg

Ive got a few more Ill post up, turns out I can only fit so many in one post.

[CV95XJ]

same spot different angle
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad097.jpg
After a bit more exploring, we went in for lunch, I had to get a pic of this willies, it was clean, the guy that owned it trailered it their behind an escalade, needless to say, I was jealous.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad101.jpg
grilling out some burgers at the snack shack.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad100.jpg
after that went back out heres me in some mud
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad108.jpg
Heres my freind jason on my raptor, and jake on his 250f
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad105.jpg
My buddies yj was next to get stuck. It was pretty funny though, we hooked up a chain to his front, and got me and two other guys just pulling on the chain, and we were able to pull him out. just needed a little extra oomph.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad112.jpg
let my brother dave, drive my jeep around a little bit
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad115.jpg
My friend alex in the yj
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad122.jpg
Dave climbin a hill in my truck
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad123.jpg
other side of the hill, and the end of david driving my jeep, haha.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad125.jpg
He almost rolled, but a tree caught the back hatch.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad126.jpg
Im sure bob played a roll in holding the passenger side down too. lol!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad129.jpg
One more
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad130.jpg

[CV95XJ]

the damage, cracked taillight, and a small dent in the hatch, no big deal.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad132.jpg
damage on the yj, my friend went down a small hill into a creek and he couldn't see the bottom, ended up being washed out, and went straight down the last 5 feet. he hit the spare tire on the hill, and bent the tailgate up a bit.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad136.jpg


well thats it, whatcha guys think?

[Rev Den]

Lose the chains and get a strap.

Rev

[XJMK]

damage on the yj, my friend went down a small hill into a creek and he couldn't see the bottom, ended up being washed out, and went straight down the last 5 feet. he hit the spare tire on the hill, and bent the tailgate up a bit.


Oh, I know where that is. Last time I went only a few people tried it. Thats one of the reasons I don't like to go first.:rolleyes:

Looks like it was fun.

[CV95XJ]

Yea, funny thing was, we saw the same hill earlier in the day crossing the creek, and we were all like, man no one should try that, but I guess it looked like a completely different area from the top. If he would have looked first he wouldn't have done it.

and rev, I would have brought a strap, but everyone Ive ever had has broke. WHy whats wrong with chains?

[w_howey]

Lose the chains and get a strap.

Rev


Yea, funny thing was, we saw the same hill earlier in the day crossing the creek, and we were all like, man no one should try that, but I guess it looked like a completely different area from the top. If he would have looked first he wouldn't have done it.

and rev, I would have brought a strap, but everyone Ive ever had has broke. WHy whats wrong with chains?


Rev: x2

CV: Think of what happened when you broke the strap.... It parted, flew a bit, and landed on something without much damage other than the strap. Now think of what would happen to a chain when it broke.... The stored energy would carry these now uncontrolled pieces of steel through the air. What happens when one hits, a Jeep, or god forbid a person......
Lose the chains, invest in a QUALITY strap, life will be much better knowing your not risking your buddies or yourself.

[WB9YZU]

That guy on the bike has my sympathy! I've ridden in sand, and real mud on a bike, but that stuff at the Cliffs was tuff to ride on when wet !!


and rev, I would have brought a strap, but everyone Ive ever had has broke. WHy whats wrong with chains?

Most Off-Road Clubs and Associations recomend the use of straps over chains and prohibit the use of chains on trail rides. That alone should speak volumes about the historical safety of chains.


Chains are a bit unreliable in my book. I've broken chains, good chains; I have yet to break a strap.
Chain couplers, hooks and bolts are not good under the stress of yanking on a vehicle.
They are also notoriously hard on things they are coupled to. When a chain lets go, there is this heavy object with stored energy, it has to release it somehow, and generally it is by returning to the anchored point.

Cables have the same issue of stored energy, and you need to be careful around winch lines.

Straps also have their draw backs, like they stretch, but that is outweighed by other factors.

Straps:
> Gradually couple/store energy, so they are not as hard on tow points.
> Energy stored in a "Snatch" operation continues to work after the towing truck has stopped.
> The weight of an object can be spread over the width of a strap so as to not cause all the weight to be concentrated on a single point.
> They are light, so the stored energy is usually released harmlessly; unless someone put a heavy object on or in the strap like a hook or clevis. Also a 20ft strap weighs a heck of a lot less than 20ft of the equivalent load chain, given the peak load you can put on a strap.

*I have never broken a strap, or seen one break, but I have seen people break chains*
When they fray, you replace them. Get a strap with only loops. Farm and Fleet sells a 20ft or 30ft 20Klb strap with no hooks for something reasonable. While you are there, get some 3/4" screw type clevis(s) to augment your recovery kit.

Ron

[CV95XJ]

I fully believe everything you guys are saying about straps vs. chains is correct and I thank you for pointing that out to me, and for being so concerned about my personal safety.

With that being said, . . . . . . . .























Im gonna stick with the chains. :)

[Timber]

Yeah, it's kind of funny. Aside from liking the pics, my first thought was "Man, that guy likes chains too much." The shock loads are what makes chains dangerous. They're great if you're using them with a Hi-Lift as a winch or possibly to stabilize a vehicle that might roll, but otherwise, the other guys have covered why straps are better.
EDIT: You posted while I was typing. Just so I don't give the wrong impression, I keep almost forty feet of grade 70 chain with like-rated hooks in the Jeep at all times. I just don't use them much; I think they've (two different set of chains) been used twice, ever.

[CV95XJ]

the thing is, I was'nt even their, I let my bro drive, and I was riding in the wrangler when that happened, my freinds were the ones that got the chains out, and hooked em to the roof. But yea, I agree with ya, I always have them with me, in a milk crate in the back. I have only used it once, and that was on sunday to get myself out of the hole I got twisted up in.

Whatever, other than that I hope you guys like the pics, I had so much fun that day, probably the best day of wheelin Ive had since ive owned the jeep.

heres another from that day, that I just found.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Thumper660/cliffdad103.jpg

[Timber]

I understand that if that's all you have, you have to do whatever you have to to get unstuck. And I do like the pics. Looks like you had fun.

[HaleYes]

CV:

If you plan on attending Winterfest @ the Badlands.......get a strap, or you won't wheel with us. Chains will not pass tech. inspection.

Hale

[IntrepidXJ]

Im gonna stick with the chains. :)

then I sure hope you don't plan on attending any NAXJA events.....or any other trail ride I may be present at

[IntrepidXJ]

I had so much fun that day, probably the best day of wheelin Ive had since ive owned the jeep.


if you are saying that about the cliffs....you really need to get out to some better places to wheel :twak:

[Sponge Bob]

The Willy's belong's to a fellow Two Rivers jeep club member that could have shown you pics of what a hook does to a human body after breaking apart!!!!!!!! Not pretty.. Please use a strap with no metal hooks in the future :shiver:

[sWissfoo]

dont u just love it when people share there opinions, HA:dunce: . WTF i was their saturday and the saturday before that.thanks alot you hurt my feeliings:bawl: .hahaha hit me up next time jerkbag. oh ya i like ur chains, whatever works right, i prefer bungie cords.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x56/sWissfoo/STP62388.jpg
oh thats right u like my strap dont you:wave: hahaha

[w_howey]

You ask for an opinion. You get more than one from VERY experienced wheelers, you get the science involved, you get the club's official safety rules and yet you still want to stay with less than safe set-up.... Don't be suprised when experienced people don't want to be around you. Nothing gets the 'oldies' cranky faster than noobs who don't want to learn.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally... If I was wheeling with you, your chains would never be attached to my Jeep, except maybe to tie it to a trailer.

[85xjwoody]

when I was young and didn't think of safety I used chains. Thankfully nothing happened. Watched a strap with a hook break and take out the back window of an xj along with the left ear of a passenger. Since I have always used non hook straps. Good quality straps.
Yes, I have broke quite a few straps but have gone to 100,000lb. rated straps and have had no issues. My point, when it comes to safety money is not a consideration when you have a chance to wheel with some of the great people of NAXJA .:worship: :D

Kim

[CV95XJ]

alright guys, I'll go buy a strap.

this brings about questions though, I have always had bad luck with them breaking, I would like to get an over the top strap that I can be pretty confident that it wont break, I noticed they are rated by pulling pounds or something like that, the ones at farm and barn, are like 27,000, and I have always seemed to break those. Where could I find a decent one.

Oh, I was also thinking about the military straps, but couldn't find anything really on ebay or anywhere else for a decent price.

what would you guys recommend. actually could make for a good christmas present to my buddy too, now that I think about it.

Id like to think that Im past the noob stage, so if I was being stubborn about the chain thing, its probly cause I just went and dropped 40 bucks on it, and the fact that I am still a teenager who thinks hes invincible.

[C85D4x4]

alright guys, I'll go buy a strap.

this brings about questions though, I have always had bad luck with them breaking, I would like to get an over the top strap that I can be pretty confident that it wont break, I noticed they are rated by pulling pounds or something like that, the ones at farm and barn, are like 27,000, and I have always seemed to break those. Where could I find a decent one.

Oh, I was also thinking about the military straps, but couldn't find anything really on ebay or anywhere else for a decent price.

what would you guys recommend. actually could make for a good christmas present to my buddy too, now that I think about it.

Id like to think that Im past the noob stage, so if I was being stubborn about the chain thing, its probly cause I just went and dropped 40 bucks on it, and the fact that I am still a teenager who thinks hes invincible.

There is either something wrong with those straps (china made crap)
or
You are doing something wrong....
......There should not be breaking 27.000lb straps

Go to a 4wheelparts...they might be pricey, but they should be good quality

And yes......your not invincible.......and you are still a so called "NOOB"

Hell I have been wheeling for 6 years now and I still think im "noobish" compared to some older guys

[Rev Den]

alright guys, I'll go buy a strap. ......

Id like to think that Im past the noob stage, so if I was being stubborn about the chain thing, its probly cause I just went and dropped 40 bucks on it, and the fact that I am still a teenager who thinks hes invincible.


Maybe....but you are showing hope.

Rev

[85xjwoody]

Straps CAN break. I have broken quite a few and have now gone to 30ft 6in. wide 70,000 and a 20ft 6in. wide 120,000. Granted I do some different wheeling than most with mostly bigger 4x4's. Don't cheap out. Save up for a good one. There is a company called Tuffy that makes some pretty good straps. I think my 60,000 from them costed roughly eighty bucks or so.

[Rev Den]

....costed.....

:laugh2:

Rev

[85xjwoody]

:laugh2:

Rev

I love you to Rev.:smootch: Can we say, it's been along day.:cheers:

Kim