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Tips for welding the C's back on

JeepFreak21

JeepFreak21

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Cameron Park, CA
Alright, so... after a cut-n-turn procedure or if the C's were cut off to shorten a front axle, what are some tips for welding them back on?

Should you try to do one continuous bead around the axle tube? Should you do it in quarters alternating sides?

Are you trying to fill in the whole gap with one pass or should you plan on another pass? If you're doing two passes... does one bead go on top of the other? Or side by side?

Is pre-heating/post-heating necessary?

I'm using a Millermatic 175 and my axle is a D44 w/ 1/2" tubes, but hopefully this advise will work for others too.

Thanks,
Billy
 
I used a Mapp gas torch to heat them to around 350-400Deg. F. before welding them back on and again for post heating. After finishing my axle build I started seeing posts about using and outdoor grill to heat the C's....BRILLIANT!! I never even considered it. Move the BBQ close to the garage, heat the C's one at a time and pop them muha's on.

Crank up the welder as high as possible and run one continious bead.
 
Frank Z said:
I used a Mapp gas torch to heat them to around 350-400Deg. F. before welding them back on and again for post heating. After finishing my axle build I started seeing posts about using and outdoor grill to heat the C's....BRILLIANT!! I never even considered it. Move the BBQ close to the garage, heat the C's one at a time and pop them muha's on.

Crank up the welder as high as possible and run one continious bead.
Click to expand...

Alrighty... so just preheat the C's... not the tubes, right? Obviously this will help with getting them back on, but I'm more concerned with getting a good weld and not compromising the integrity of the metal.

Thanks,
Billy
 
Whats the difference between doing one continuous bead, compaired to say 4? Is there a strength issue?

I take it there is no worry about warping the tubes then?
 
The C's are cast, and welding cast parts to regular cold-formed steel requires heating the cast parts for penetration. I've done a little welding with cast steel, tried it cold first, it sucked. Torch-heated it for the second try, much better penetration and much better looking welds. I didn't temp gauge it, just heated it for a couple of minutes with a propane torch and then immediately welded it. It was for a bracket on a diff pumpkin, and it's still holding strong years later.

A buddy of mine is a professional welder, he's done numerous cut & turns on axle tubes, he always heats the casting prior to welding.
 
Heres my .02$,You want the C's to fit as tight as possible.This means you should be pre-heating them to get them on.After that check your alignment and make 4 tack welds(re-checking after eack tack).Then pre-heat the entire area and weld all in one pass(easy if you can make some kind of rotiserie).Then re-heat if needed(not likely) and maintain the slowest cooldown possible,I bought an old oven for this and bake-painting parts in.
 
fubar XJ said:
The C's are cast, and welding cast parts to regular cold-formed steel requires heating the cast parts for penetration. I've done a little welding with cast steel, tried it cold first, it sucked. Torch-heated it for the second try, much better penetration and much better looking welds. I didn't temp gauge it, just heated it for a couple of minutes with a propane torch and then immediately welded it. It was for a bracket on a diff pumpkin, and it's still holding strong years later.

A buddy of mine is a professional welder, he's done numerous cut & turns on axle tubes, he always heats the casting prior to welding.
Click to expand...

Inner C's are NOT cast, they are forged. Weld away.

The grill will help get them on but isn't necessary IMO for the weld.

I would weld alternating C's in 1/4s at a time after tacking them on there. If you were butt welding them to the tubes I would recommend multiple passes with chamfered tube, but since they are slipped over the tube, you are fine with one pass, IMO. Weld them on both sides of the knuckle if you can.
 
Stick welding would be best if you can get your hands on one. Then you want a nickle rod that is labeled for machinable cast iron. I'm new to mig welding but the rods I mentioned have always been some of the best stick welds I ever produced. Never cracked. I welded a cast steering box mount and it held forever. I just welded a neibors cast tractor steering knuckle and same sucess. Really nice sticks to weld with and not a single crack or problem. Not an expert but thats my experiance. I just do a little at a time and it self preheats after the first few tacks. Then go at it. when done, cover it to keep the wind off and the heat in for a while.
 
Again, the only reason to preheat is to make them expand so they are easier to get on but when evenly heated they actually expand from the materials core so that dosen't really work. If using a torch you can expand them from the outside so they are pulling outward from the center, don't apply the torch to the inside and they will pull outward. We generally lightly sand the tube and then coax them back on with a 20lb double jack.......tap them around (again with the BFH) to the correct angle for your castor correction and weld away, and yes, weld them inside & out. Its really pretty easy on a D44, pretty dammed difficult on a D60, they are put on much tighter at the factory. D44's are pressed on with 1 or 2 thousand's negative fit, D60's are ~15 thousand's negative and are put on with a 400+ ton press.
 
There is no reason to use a nickel rod or anything of the sort. These parts are forged steel, not cast or forged iron. I would use a stick, though, only because it's going to have more power than a Miller 175 and I'd want to use at least 200 amps to put these back on.
 
Gravel Maker said:
Again, the only reason to preheat is to make them expand so they are easier to get on but when evenly heated they actually expand from the materials core so that dosen't really work. If using a torch you can expand them from the outside so they are pulling outward from the center, don't apply the torch to the inside and they will pull outward. We generally lightly sand the tube and then coax them back on with a 20lb double jack.......tap them around (again with the BFH) to the correct angle for your castor correction and weld away, and yes, weld them inside & out. Its really pretty easy on a D44, pretty dammed difficult on a D60, they are put on much tighter at the factory. D44's are pressed on with 1 or 2 thousand's negative fit, D60's are ~15 thousand's negative and are put on with a 400+ ton press.
Click to expand...

Heating steel will always make it dimensionally larger. If you heat a plate with a hole in it uniformly, the hole will get larger just like the overall plate. If you heat a tube uniformly, the ID and OD will get larger.

I have never, ever, experienced the opposite.
 
Stumpalump said:
Then you want a nickle rod that is labeled for machinable cast iron.
Click to expand...

Seeing as the C's are not cast iron, that sounds like a great waste of money.

Man, if some DAN ever searches on how to work with axles, he'd probably think the entire damn thing was made out of gray cast iron.
 
Rods for machinable cast iron are for cast steel. I thought. I think some misconception comes from old real cast iron welding. The stuff they use in blocks and cast steel is a little different. We need an expert to clairify all this because I hear different storys about steel,cast iron ,cast steel. I'm sure cast blocks and steering boxes or C's are not the same as an old cast iron boiler or stove. I think they are cast steel but it's not the same as regular steel as far as welding goes. It's probably in here somewhere but if not save this link and blow thru some courses when you have time. It's all free.
http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/esab-university.cfm
 
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