Need help with a friends Honda

[UNCC_99XJ]

A few days ago me and some of my friends went to the beach for a last vacation before school. We had 3 vehicles b/w the 8 of us, my Jeep and my Buddy's Honda and another friends Camry. The Honda took a dump on us the other day (2nd day down here). We were coming back from dinner, 30 miles away from where we were staying and he went to slow down for a light that was red, but then turned green before he got to it, and as he began to accelerate again the Honda lost all power and died in the middle of the road. After I managed to get turned around and back to help him push it off in the parking lot of a bank, I tried to get it to run again. It cranks, but will not run. Ended up cramming 8 people into my Jeep including myself to get the 30 miles back to the house (all this was at 1am in the morning). We had it towed to a local tire and auto place right down the road from where it died the next day and they're saying the ignitor is shorting out, and took out the ignition coil....if they were to do the repair it would be $770 out the door. and it was already $140 for what they did to it ($55 to tow it half a mile and and rest was a diagnostic charge, about $75). We kindly declined any work on it at that time and had it towed back to where we're staying so I could mess with it. They also have a family friend/mechanic who is coming down here to stay next weekend, and the current plan is to leave the Honda down here and all pile into my Jeep (5 of us total) for the 4 hour ride home in the 90*+ weather.....not much fun.

They're also claiming that when it shorted it took out the sparkplugs, wires, cap and rotor...basically most of the ignition system. We're down here till Tuesday and i'd really like to get it running again that way we don't oveload my Jeep on the way home and everybody would be alot more comfortable. Plus he's gone out of his way to let us stay at his family's house for the week and i'm trying to help the guy out. Problem is I don't know alot about Honda's and if there's some sort of funky thing they tend to do when this problem occurs. I did pull the plug wires off today and looked at the terminals on the cap and they really didn't look that bad. In all honesty the ones I pulled off my Jeep a while back looked alot worse.

Our friend's with the Camry had to go home a couple of days ago, so we're down to my Jeep being the only working vehicle, and there's 5 of us.....doesn't make for a very comfy ride for those in the back.

For the record, as far as I know the check engine light never came on. He said everything was running great and as he went to accelerate the engine revved down rather than up and it stalled out. No warning lights came on or anything. I was unable to find the port to plug in my scanner untill we got it back from the shop, so I don't know if it really did throw a code and they cleared it or what.

I don't have my sparkplug socket with me so I can't take the plugs off and look at them. Any suggestions as to what to check? According to the mechanic at the shop, the ignition coil was shooting very visable sparks when they attempted to crank it. I was unable to see these sparks when I was messing with it today inside a closed garage. The specs are a 99 CR-V. 4-cylinder automatic, with 95K on it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[JohnX]

Sounds like a whole lot of bull to me. I guess I would go with their guess and try an ignitor...not cheap, but it usaully is the cause. I have only ever seen one coil go bad on those, but many ignitors. I would speculate that the shop was unsure of the cause, so they included everything in the ignition system so they could cover their asses. There is no reason that the spark plugs or wire would be bad enough to prevent it from running.

If you can't see a spark then that may be the whole problem...however diagnosis is difficult on those Hondas. I have been wrong before (on that one with the bad coil) and had to eat my mistake.

[JohnX]

Also, make sure you check all fuses (with a testlight or DVOM) and relays that are related to the ignition system. For the relays, switching them with another one that your sure works is good enough.

[IslanderOffRoad]

If it were a Cherokee, I'd say its the crank position sensor. I'm not sure if Hondas have a similar device.

[JohnX]

They have cam position sensor that fail occasionally, but without an appropriate scanner it isn't something readily testable. If you have access to a scanner that gives live telemetry, then you can check the signal for all sensors and see if you have one that isn't working while cranking.

[UNCC_99XJ]

wow...didn't expect many replies at 1am...gonna have to start getting on at this time more often.

Thanks for the help guys. Yeah I do have access to a scanner that does a digital read out of everything (used it on my jeep several times), but all my good tools and shop are 200+ miles away at home.

I forgot to mention I did check the fuse today for the ignition coil and it wasn't blown. I'll definately check the relay's tomorrow. Gotta charge the battery back up, all this cranking and no engine running has made the battery pretty much flat.

I also forgot to say it was another $125 to have it towed the 30 miles back to the beach house from Wilmington where we were. So so far we're up to about $265.

They said their mechanic friend can get all the parts for about $200 and a weekend at the beach....i'm just trying to give the man a head start and a good idea of what all he needs to replace.

I should also mention they've never done a tune up on it in the 95K it's got on it, so it's pretty much in agreement that it's time for one regardless.

Thanks again for the suggestions guys, keep em comming!

[Kittrell]

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mechanical/flammableliquids/gascan.gif

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/help/reference/vrml/vrml97/images/match.jpg

[UNCC_99XJ]

LOL well ironically this did happen about 3 miles after filling up. He had less than 1/8 left and i had less than 1/4 left. At first we thought bad gas, but i've already run that tank through my XJ and other than shotty milage from 5 people and a/c on alot, it ran great. 1st thing I checked was the fuel pump in the parking lot of the bank and it's still coming on.

The first couple of times I tried to crank it back up that night it sounded like it was trying to run for a second or two but then it just went back to cranking again....the tach's not moving at all while it's cranking either.

I appologize for leaving so much out of the orig. post...been a long day.

[RedHeep]

Has the ignition switch recall been performed?

NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 02V120000 - Hide Details
Recall Data: 05/16/2002
Components: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
Units Affected: 1000000
1999 HONDA CR-V ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
Recall Date: 05/16/2002

Summary:
ON CERTAIN SEDANS, COUPES, HATCHBACKS, AND SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, ELECTRICAL CONTACTS IN THE IGNITION SWITCH CAN DEGRADE DUE TO THE HIGH ELECTRICAL CURRENT PASSING THROUGH THE SWITCH WHEN THE VEHICLE IS STARTED.

Consequence:
WORN CONTACTS COULD CAUSE THE ENGINE TO STALL WITHOUT WARNING, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.

Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE IGNITION SWITCH. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN JUNE 14, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009 OR ACURA AT 1-800-382-2238.

Potential Units Affected: 1000000

Notes: HONDA CR-V

[UNCC_99XJ]

I didn't even think about looking for possible recalls on it....thanks!

But if the ignition switch did all of a sudden go bad from bad contact, you wouldn't be able to get the engine to crank would you?

[JohnX]

"Start" position and "run" position are two different contacts, so it is very possible to have one go bad and not the other.

[bjoehandley]

For a long time Honda Accords had the problems you described, and the cost given is about right for a Chicago area dealer to do the work. A secretary Dad worked with at Gary Works had her Accord do that several years ago and a manager at work had her early 90's Accord do that about a year or so ago at about only 85k. Her boyfriend, who's a mechanic told me about that being a regular problem at about that mileage on those cars. I don't know if that's a fluke that it happened on a CR-V, or that they've used the same crappy parts on those too.

[UNCC_99XJ]

we're on our way out the door to head home right now....but if it turns out to be the ignition switch thats awesome...cause that means a free repair for them.

bjoehandley, were those problems you listed all from a bad ignition switch? My dad's worked on porsche's most of his life but has recently become "mr. honda" and he said he's not heard of it being a common problem. But now that I think about it, I seem to recall a few years ago his accord got recalled for something ignition related.

And see the price is from an independent tire/auto shop in Wilmington...not even a Honda dealer.

[bjoehandley]

Actually the problem I mentioned was exactly what the mechanic told you he thought it might be, where the coil or distributer shorted and one of the two killed the other, The plugs and wires are something new though. Pricing wise, theres probably a difference in pricing over a year and a half plus half a country away. Sometimes changing the height of the wheel on a tilt column can alow for a dieing switch to work a little longer, plus if the switch is bad, the engine probably wouldn't turn over either.