GPS.... is not equal to another GPS

[Kejtar]

Knowing that, I'm looking for something that has nice topo maps, easy interface to a computer (my old one uses rs232 which is ... well... antiquated ;) ) is not overly big (I saw some folks with nice big marine units, but they take too much room). Anyways, I'm thinking about something along the lines of a 4" or 5" screen with color (I think that's pretty much a standard now?).
Anyways, I saw a great deal on tomtom 510 but it looks like it does not have decent topo maps and that started me thinking on what to get for a GPS.

[IntrepidXJ]

I love my Magellan CrossoverGPS....but based on your requirements, it doesn't look like the right device for you. So check out this thread:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=928602

[Kejtar]

I love my Magellan CrossoverGPS....but based on your requirements, it doesn't look like the right device for you. So check out this thread:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=928602
I read through that one before , and it seems that it comes close but not close enough ;) I know, I probably want too much and I will settle for fewer features at the end, but for now I'm shopping around for everything :D

[karstic]

I read through that one before , and it seems that it comes close but not close enough ;) I know, I probably want too much and I will settle for fewer features at the end, but for now I'm shopping around for everything :D

What features don't you like about the Zumo 510?

GPS receivers are kinda like Jeeps, you hafta fu=igure your out what the end use will be and go from there.

Do you want something exclusively in vehicle? Or do you want something portable?

Do you want to use it for geocaching, hiking, etc or just auto navigation and 4wd trail marking?

U.S. only or do you want to be able to use it in Europe also?

I am very satisfied with the Garmin 60CSx.

[Fish'nCarz]

DeLorme PN-20 Except the screen isn't that huge. With the compact size and multiple zoom levels I don't mind having a smaller screen.

http://www.gpsreview.net/delorme-earthmate-gps-pn-20/

"Think of this new type of GPS as having Google Earth, GPS enabled, in your pocket.

[XJedi23]

I got a great deal on my 76csx and love it. Bit more features than I really need but it floats so thats good. :laugh:

[ruggedjeep]

Im set on this one. Should be buying one soon.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=134&pID=6290

Sport Chalet has it for 289

[Kejtar]

Im set on this one. Should be buying one soon.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=134&pID=6290

Sport Chalet has it for 289
if that's the one I was looking at before, their topo maps sucked.....

[Handlebars]

The Nuvi series are strictly urban navigators. There is no topo option for them. Same with the Streetpilot i, c and 7xxx series. From Garmin, your options for topo and auto-routing capability are:

The big marine units- x76, x78. You can do everything with them, even hook up an XM reciever and get realtime weather and doppler radar for anywhere in the US. They have a huge display but also take up a lot of room in a Jeep.

Handheld units- eTrex, GPSMAP 60 and GPSMAP 76. The top of the line versions of them do auto-routing and accept memory cards, allowing you to store several map series of maps in the unit. They work great for hiking but the display is small considering the amount of room they take on your dashboard.

Quest and Quest 2- These do auto-routing and accept multiple maps, including topo. The unit is sized to fit on a dashboard and has a color screen, it works equally well for hiking. Toyota dealers even sell this unit to intall in the FJ Cruiser. Disadvantages: it offers the same small display as the 60 and 76 series, you are limited to the internal memory and it is the only series that Garmin has not seen fit to update with the high-sensitivity SiRF III reciever. Expect this one to be discontinued soon, you might find a new unit for cheap when that happens. This is the unit that Magellan's Crossover competes against. That one might be worth a look, especially for the price. I have no personal experience with Magellan products, though. If Garmin had a suitable competing unit it would be...

Zumo series. Large color touch screen display, small unit size. It accepts memory cards and topo maps. You don't want to use this one for hiking though. The unit has a 4 hour battery life and a slippery, rounded case that would be tough to carry. Garmin markets this one to motorcyclists, I only stumbled accross it because I was looking for a GPS for my BMW. After getting it in my hands I discovered what a great unit it is for jeeping. I have sucessfully lead several trail runs using this unit, including at night and on trails I have never been on before. It is really easy to see the display while moving no matter what the light conditions are.

Remi, why not join the 20th century and get a computer that has a USB port? That will open up your options considerably.

[lobsterdmb]

The Nuvi series are strictly urban navigators. There is no topo option for them. Same with the Streetpilot i, c and 7xxx series. From Garmin, your options for topo and auto-routing capability are:

The big marine units- x76, x78. You can do everything with them, even hook up an XM reciever and get realtime weather and doppler radar for anywhere in the US. They have a huge display but also take up a lot of room in a Jeep.

Handheld units- eTrex, GPSMAP 60 and GPSMAP 76. The top of the line versions of them do auto-routing and accept memory cards, allowing you to store several map series of maps in the unit. They work great for hiking but the display is small considering the amount of room they take on your dashboard.

Quest and Quest 2- These do auto-routing and accept multiple maps, including topo. The unit is sized to fit on a dashboard and has a color screen, it works equally well for hiking. Toyota dealers even sell this unit to intall in the FJ Cruiser. Disadvantages: it offers the same small display as the 60 and 76 series, you are limited to the internal memory and it is the only series that Garmin has not seen fit to update with the high-sensitivity SiRF III reciever. Expect this one to be discontinued soon, you might find a new unit for cheap when that happens. This is the unit that Magellan's Crossover competes against. That one might be worth a look, especially for the price. I have no personal experience with Magellan products, though. If Garmin had a suitable competing unit it would be...

Zumo series. Large color touch screen display, small unit size. It accepts memory cards and topo maps. You don't want to use this one for hiking though. The unit has a 4 hour battery life and a slippery, rounded case that would be tough to carry. Garmin markets this one to motorcyclists, I only stumbled accross it because I was looking for a GPS for my BMW. After getting it in my hands I discovered what a great unit it is for jeeping. I have sucessfully lead several trail runs using this unit, including at night and on trails I have never been on before. It is really easy to see the display while moving no matter what the light conditions are.

Remi, why not join the 20th century and get a computer that has a USB port? That will open up your options considerably.


not true, as per garmins website and multiple reviews online, you can add topo maps to the nuvi 350 or higher.

[Handlebars]

not true, as per garmins website and multiple reviews online, you can add topo maps to the nuvi 350 or higher.

You are right! I sifted around Garmin's site some more. Topo has limited compatibility with the nuvi 310 and 350. Unfortunately, neither of these units allow you to download or save tracks and routes, only waypoints. As far as I can tell the nuvi units also will not display a breadcrumb trail of where you have been. A GPS without these capabilities is essentially useless for off road navigation. Do you have one of these units or know anybody who has used it off road? I would like to hear some firsthand experience.

[lobsterdmb]

You are right! I sifted around Garmin's site some more. Topo has limited compatibility with the nuvi 310 and 350. Unfortunately, neither of these units allow you to download or save tracks and routes, only waypoints. As far as I can tell the nuvi units also will not display a breadcrumb trail of where you have been. A GPS without these capabilities is essentially useless for off road navigation. Do you have one of these units or know anybody who has used it off road? I would like to hear some firsthand experience.

i don't, but i actually was also looking for someone with firsthand experience before i bought one...

[beakie]

I have a Garmin Rino 120, no colour screen (520 out now does tho) built in radio (FRS/GMRS) and is centered on handheld, clipped to your belt, carried use. But I have a CB mount on my dash that it sits perfectly in. Other than being small for a 'view while driving' unit it still quite good for that too. I haven't figured out if or how to have it stick to the roads, but I can use my Canada TOPO Map on my computer, program the road route I wish to take where ever I go and it will send me on my merry way.
On in the bush it gets rather good reception, will keep my tracks for upload later and update my TOPO map to show where I have gone.
Added bonus of this model is when I head out with others that have this GPS, with a single squelch (radio feature) I can show my buddies where I am on there screen, and they can show me where they are. Handy when hunting in the bush, running dogs, or when you live near a buddy but don't feel like phoning all the time... if its left on.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

lowrance baja 540c

end all offroad gps.

[Handlebars]

lowrance baja 540c

end all offroad gps.
Posts like this are completely worthless without some kind of supporting data.

What makes it so special? I may be interested in one if it is so much better than what I use.

Do you have one? What have you used it for? I have not seen one in action and am interested in your personal experience.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

okay lets see.

Its the only completely ruggidized, weather proof, shock proof gps of its kind on the market.

its used by every, and i mean EVERY race vehicle in off road racing like SCORE and MDR.

The mapping software is incredible.

It is large but so so worth it.

What more could you need/want?

well there is the 8" screen version, the 840c....

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Automotive/GlobalMap-Baja-540C/


oh and everybody on pirate says its the best :D


Posts like this are completely worthless without some kind of supporting data.

What makes it so special? I may be interested in one if it is so much better than what I use.

Do you have one? What have you used it for? I have not seen one in action and am interested in your personal experience.

[XJumpmaster]

So as I use the dealer locator and use the links, they all say they no longer carry this item. Is it an older item? Ebay only?

[KSXJ]

I am also looking for a gps to best fit me. But I was wondering, do you need a topo option. What happens when you offroad with a street map? Will it still leave bread crumbs that you can save later or backtrack?

I want it to have good street directions, mph, time/miles to destination. And then for offroad I want to be able to save my paths and name them so I can revisit or follow them off the trail if needed. It will stay in the jeep or tow rig. Does not need to be more mobile than moving it from car to car. No need for mp3 or any of the fancy items.

Any idea on which one would do this for the least amount of money.

Thanks

[IntrepidXJ]

I am also looking for a gps to best fit me. But I was wondering, do you need a topo option. What happens when you offroad with a street map? Will it still leave bread crumbs that you can save later or backtrack?

I want it to have good street directions, mph, time/miles to destination. And then for offroad I want to be able to save my paths and name them so I can revisit or follow them off the trail if needed. It will stay in the jeep or tow rig. Does not need to be more mobile than moving it from car to car. No need for mp3 or any of the fancy items.

Any idea on which one would do this for the least amount of money.

Thanks

I do all of that with my Magellan Crossover....and it works pretty well for me. It has a street mode (turn-by-turn), topographic mode (tracks, waypoints, geocaching, etc...), and even a marine mode (I have not used this mode, as I don't fish or have a boat)

[Handlebars]

Please put your flame suit on, but realize that I am not picking on you, just trying to learn from actual users which GPS units serve their needs.

The market is saturated with GPS units, even my grocery store sells them now. Some of them are quite capable of helping a jeeper find his way around while off road, but many others are not. Your enthusiastic endorsement sounds like it came from more from Lowrance ad copy than personal experience. Please forgive me for the comments I am about to make:
okay lets see.

Its the only completely ruggidized, weather proof, shock proof gps of its kind on the market.
I am not sure what "kind" of GPS the 540c is but this claim is also made by Garmin for all of it's outdoors GPS's, including the Zumo, which I have used in the rain on my motorcycle in addition to in my Cherokee.


its used by every, and i mean EVERY race vehicle in off road racing like SCORE and MDR.
Off road racing is a completely different world than the jeeping that I use a GPS for. Whether exploring someplace I have never been or leading a dozen other Jeeps through a trail I am not completely familiar with, my GPS needs to quickly and clearly tell me which way I need to go to get where I want to go. For 3 days last year I got to pretend to be a Baja race car driver:

http://www.fototime.com/4D8F9CFDE5D2AE4/orig.jpg...

...in a car equipped with a Lowrance Baja 540c:
http://www.fototime.com/8FDE5327248AB50/orig.jpg

One thing I learned is that there is a co-driver in most cars who's job is to run the GPS and navigate. I still managed to get us lost. To the credit of the Lowrance, most of the roads we drove weren't on it's map and no track was stored for us to follow.

The mapping software is incredible.
Can it automatically calculate a route from where you are to where you want to be when you don't even know where you are right now? I suspect not judging from the features in the link you posted, one of which states, "Add straight-line GPS navigation to your off-road vehicle!"

Can you save your tracks to a computer for future download to the Lowrance so you can follow them as a route?

It is large but so so worth it.

What more could you need/want?

well there is the 8" screen version, the 840c....
I guess that is a matter of preference. The one 540c I have seen installed in a Wrangler took up an appalling amount of space on the dashboard.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Jerry/540C003.jpg
I couldn't imagine where to mount a larger version of it, even in a Cherokee.

If the Lowrance in fact does not perform auto-routing duties then even an 8 inch screen is too small. I had trouble picking out roads on a 15.4 inch laptop screen hooked to a GPS, this is why I feel the ability to auto-route is one of the 2 most important things a Jeepin GPS should do.

You saved the best for last:
oh and everybody on pirate says its the best :D
I have been web wheeling long enough to know that when someone supports an argument with internet hearsay it is a sure sign of someone who is not all that familiar with whatever it is they are touting.

Here are the 2 most important things I think a GPS suited to Jeep use should be able to do.
1) Automatically generate a route from point A to point B, using roads stored on maps that you can easily download to the unit.

2) For those situations where the cartographers don't know about the roads/trails you use: The ability to download a track or route from saved from a previous trip, from the internet, or even made from scratch on your computer (all of which I have done with Garmin GPS's), put said track/route in your GPS and have it route you to where you want to go.

Once again, I am not attacking you personally, I am trying to determine for my benefit and the benefit of our fellow NAXJA members, which of the exploding number of GPS units on the market will serve our need the best.

[KSXJ]

I do all of that with my Magellan Crossover....and it works pretty well for me. It has a street mode (turn-by-turn), topographic mode (tracks, waypoints, geocaching, etc...), and even a marine mode (I have not used this mode, as I don't fish or have a boat)


so you didn't have to load any more software for the topo to work?

[IntrepidXJ]

so you didn't have to load any more software for the topo to work?

nope....the Topo of North America comes pre-loaded on the device.

[XJCreeper]

I have a Garmin Rino 120, no colour screen (520 out now does tho) built in radio (FRS/GMRS) and is centered on handheld, clipped to your belt, carried use. But I have a CB mount on my dash that it sits perfectly in. Other than being small for a 'view while driving' unit it still quite good for that too. I haven't figured out if or how to have it stick to the roads, but I can use my Canada TOPO Map on my computer, program the road route I wish to take where ever I go and it will send me on my merry way.
On in the bush it gets rather good reception, will keep my tracks for upload later and update my TOPO map to show where I have gone.
Added bonus of this model is when I head out with others that have this GPS, with a single squelch (radio feature) I can show my buddies where I am on there screen, and they can show me where they are. Handy when hunting in the bush, running dogs, or when you live near a buddy but don't feel like phoning all the time... if its left on.

X2. I've got the rino 160 and love it for all the same reasons. Plus you can get a 9 pin serial adapter to sycronize maps & data with the garmin maps from you old laptop.

[XJedi23]

Sorry for the hijack but...

Just curious what type of mount other Carmin GPSMAP 60 and 76 use in their vehicles?

[IllianaXJ]

Dad and I were GPS shopping online on Thanksgiving, mainly for him. He was looking for one for his motorcycle. We settled on either the Magellan Crossover or the TomTom Rider (http://www.tomtom.com/products/product.php?ID=146).

The TomTom has a couple neat features for motorcycle use that may not cross over to Jeep use, like a Bluetooth headpiece for turn-by-turn directions.

I was trying to get him to buy the Magellan so I can borrow it for Jeepin/geocache trips :D

[ROOK1]

Here is what I have. Magellan Explorist 500 with the Travler Bundle (car mount, detailed road maps and car power supply) I am able to store tons of maps on the SD card. I can get Topo maps if I would like but I have only to a few places that haven't been on the maps and most forest roads have been on my maps. It has point to point or turn by turn directions as well as reroute option, backtrack option, geocache as well as thousands of preinstalled points of interest (gas stations, shopping, restraunts......) I am sure there are other features I have forgotten too. Overall good GPS unit for the day to day street driver as well as the off road, hiking and fishing person.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3955/imgp3020it9.jpg

[FishPOET]

Here are the 2 most important things I think a GPS suited to Jeep use should be able to do.
1) Automatically generate a route from point A to point B, using roads stored on maps that you can easily download to the unit.

2) For those situations where the cartographers don't know about the roads/trails you use: The ability to download a track or route from saved from a previous trip, from the internet, or even made from scratch on your computer (all of which I have done with Garmin GPS's), put said track/route in your GPS and have it route you to where you want to go.


If you are running Trail A you can manually input the trail into your GPSr at home and have the GPSr follow the route. Many of todays GPSrs have that capability.

But...If you get to Trail A and the sign reads "Road closed due to wash out" and the group decides to run Trail B, does your GPSr have the capabilities to create a route on the fly for you to follow? Unless you loaded Trail B into your GPSr at home, I don't think so.

Although many GPSrs can autoroute onroad quite accurately, I have not used any GPSr that has the software to autoroute from topo maps. It has been my experience that the cartographers who created Garmin topo only programmed "major" trails (fire roads) and left off most of the trails that we run. And since Garmin has proprietary software, you cannot choose to download a 2nd party topo software with the minor trails.

Although I have never owned or used one, if I were in the market for a large screen offroad GPSr I would go with Lowrance 540c. It is baja tested tough and capable.

If I was in the market for an offroad handheld I might give the new DeLorme GPSrs a try. Their topo software is universally well liked and the early reviews on the PN-20 are good.

[Handlebars]

Thanks, beakie, Randy and Chris for giving your first-hand experience with your GPS units.
If you are running Trail A you can manually input the trail into your GPSr at home and have the GPSr follow the route. Many of todays GPSrs have that capability.

But...If you get to Trail A and the sign reads "Road closed due to wash out" and the group decides to run Trail B, does your GPSr have the capabilities to create a route on the fly for you to follow? Unless you loaded Trail B into your GPSr at home, I don't think so.
This makes no sense. You are expecting any GPS to auto-route on a trail that is not on its map? I have been wheeling long enough to know that the places I love to drive are usually not on any map. That is why I feel any GPS that is to be used in a Jeep must have the ability to accept tracks from other sources and be able to route you on them.

For those times when I don't have a road to auto-route with, or a track saved that I can follow, yes I can punch in waypoints and manually create a route. It is merely a series of straight lines connecting however many waypoints I put in the unit. This I can do in the field, here is an example of just such a situation:
http://www.fototime.com/15217D09548B0DD/orig.jpg

Although many GPSrs can autoroute onroad quite accurately, I have not used any GPSr that has the software to autoroute from topo maps. It has been my experience that the cartographers who created Garmin topo only programmed "major" trails (fire roads) and left off most of the trails that we run.

Garmin Mapsource National Parks Topo 24k will let you auto route any of the roads or trails on its map, you should check it out. It only covers a small part of the U.S, luckily many of the places I go, such as Moab, are covered. Here is an autoroute of a road using that software:
http://www.fototime.com/A3D89073C1ABE3A/orig.gif
And since Garmin has proprietary software, you cannot choose to download a 2nd party topo software with the minor trails.
I have not needed this since I have the ability to find tracks on the internet and download them to my GPS and follow them. A couple of my favorite places to find tracks:

http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php
http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

I :heart: .gpx files!


Although I have never owned or used one, if I were in the market for a large screen offroad GPSr I would go with Lowrance 540c. It is baja tested tough and capable.

If I was in the market for an offroad handheld I might give the new DeLorme GPSrs a try. Their topo software is universally well liked and the early reviews on the PN-20 are good.
Is that another sound bite from the Lowrance website? I still don't understand why people who have never used one endorse it.

I feel the future for trail sharing will be the swapping of .gpx files over the internet. People who write maps of any kind wield a surprising amount of power over where you or I go. The environmental groups know this, why do you think they drag the USFS and the BLM into court so often? The ability for any person with a GPS to map trails with their own equipment and submit them as part of the legal planning process will become more important as various resouce management plans come up for review.

Can any of you Magellan, Delorme or TomTom GPS users extract routes, waypoints and tracks from a .gpx file to load in to your GPS? It would be nice to be able to share trails with you. :)

[IntrepidXJ]

Can any of you Magellan, Delorme or TomTom GPS users extract routes, waypoints and tracks from a .gpx file to load in to your GPS? It would be nice to be able to share trails with you. :)

I can into my Crossover. However, it's not as simple of a process as it is on a Garmin. I must convert it from GPX to the format that the Magellan recognizes. It's an extra step, but that really doesn't bother me too much.

I do really like your Zumo.....and had I known about it when I bought my Crossover, I probably would have had a hard time deciding between them. But overall, I am very happy with the Crossover :)

[FishPOET]

Thanks, beakie, Randy and Chris for giving your first-hand experience with your GPS units.
I have owned a Garmin 12, Garmin 12XL, Garmin V, Garmin GPSMap60cs and a Magellan Sport Trak Pro in the last 10 years.

I have worked on many GIS projects for the USFS with a gentleman who was on the team that wrote the original software for Garmin maps. This gentleman has also created a special map set for Garmin GPSrs with EVERY trail in the San Bernardino National Forest.

I teach map, compass and GPS classes for the USFS.

My girlfriend was a west coast distributor of Lowrance products for a short time.

Do I need more first hand experience necessary to participate in a GPS thread?

Garmin Mapsource National Parks Topo 24k will let you auto route any of the roads or trails on its map, you should check it out. It only covers a small part of the U.S, luckily many of the places I go, such as Moab, are covered.
Lucky for you. What is everyone else supposed to use for topo mpas on Garmin where their coverage sucks?

I have not needed this since I have the ability to find tracks on the internet and download them to my GPS and follow them. A couple of my favorite places to find tracks:

http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php
http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

I :heart: .gpx files!
You are assuming that GPX files will not work on a Lowrance 540c?

I :heart: .gpx files as well. I have uploaded many .gpx files, as well as topo maps for ANY Jeeper to use on any GPSr that works with waypoints, tracks and routes. Are you assuming that a Lowrance 540c does not work with waypoints, tracks and routes?

This is my favorite website for exchanging .gpx files and sharing topo maps.
http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Is that another sound bite from the Lowrance website? I still don't understand why people who have never used one endorse it.
Why does anyone become so "brand specific" (Garmin) that they are not able to see the virtues of other brands? I was honest with everyone in letting them know that although I have never used a Lowrance 540c, I would not hesitate to purchase the unit if I was looking for a GPSr that size.

I feel the future for trail sharing will be the swapping of .gpx files over the internet.
Hey we agree on something

Can any of you Magellan, Delorme or TomTom GPS users extract routes, waypoints and tracks from a .gpx file to load in to your GPS? It would be nice to be able to share trails with you. :)
The answer is yes.

My favorite site for working with GPS and mapping files is
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/gpsbabel/convert

It is a user friendly interface for converting multiple file types using GPSBabel. I recommend anyone interested in using or sharing files to become familiar with GPSBabel. It is a powerful tool.

[Fish'nCarz]

http://gpstracklog.typepad.com/gps_tracklog/2007/01/delorme_earthma.html

DeLorme sells aerial photo data you can use as a layer on your PN20, and their mapping software just went from 6.0 to 7.0 last month. Aeriel photo images are pricey now, but you can see tons of detail that the maps don't show. They cost a quarter per square mile now, but look for the price to come down as more units are sold.

Check out the web site above for some good, detailed, comparisons to Garmin.

[Handlebars]

My favorite site for working with GPS and mapping files is
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/gpsbabel/convert

It is a user friendly interface for converting multiple file types using GPSBabel. I recommend anyone interested in using or sharing files to become familiar with GPSBabel. It is a powerful tool.
First of all, thanks for sharing this link. I just converted a National Geographic Topo track into a .gpx file! I have a bunch of stuff I saved on NG Topo from before I realized I would be better off having it in a format that I could put into my GPS. You have made my life much better just by posting that gem of a website.

This is my favorite website for exchanging .gpx files and sharing topo maps.
http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50
I love what you have done there! My whole point of prodding information out of you guys is to make something similar on NAXJA. I want to know if the average user will be able to make real world use of track files posted here. I have a bunch of Moab trails saved in .gpx, I can also make .pdf maps that should print out nicely on an 8.5x11 piece of paper for people without GPS units. Those seemed like the 2 easiest ways to make trails available to anyone with average computer skills.

Lucky for you. What is everyone else supposed to use for topo mpas on Garmin where their coverage sucks?
I don't expect any map to be 100% correct. Nor do I expect any map to show all of the roads/trails that are actually on the ground. It is obvious to me that you don't really expect this either after seeing all of the work you have contributed here: http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50.

I have owned a Garmin 12, Garmin 12XL, Garmin V, Garmin GPSMap60cs and a Magellan Sport Trak Pro in the last 10 years.

I have worked on many GIS projects for the USFS with a gentleman who was on the team that wrote the original software for Garmin maps. This gentleman has also created a special map set for Garmin GPSrs with EVERY trail in the San Bernardino National Forest.

I teach map, compass and GPS classes for the USFS.

My girlfriend was a west coast distributor of Lowrance products for a short time.

Do I need more first hand experience necessary to participate in a GPS thread?
Your experience is very much welcome! Everything I have learned about using a GPS came the hard way- by going out and trying to figure out how to get my device to tell me what I want to know. It is nice to talk with someone who can teach me something new... like you just did with your GPS Visualizer link. :)


You are assuming that GPX files will not work on a Lowrance 540c?

I :heart: .gpx files as well. I have uploaded many .gpx files, as well as topo maps for ANY Jeeper to use on any GPSr that works with waypoints, tracks and routes. Are you assuming that a Lowrance 540c does not work with waypoints, tracks and routes?

You are assuming that GPX files will not work on a Lowrance 540c?

Why does anyone become so "brand specific" (Garmin) that they are not able to see the virtues of other brands? I was honest with everyone in letting them know that although I have never used a Lowrance 540c, I would not hesitate to purchase the unit if I was looking for a GPSr that size.
I have no experience with anything other than Garmin units. That is why I am asking here... to learn first hand experience from those who have it. I really want to know if the Lowrance 540c can do these two things:

1) Automatically generate a route from point A to point B, using roads stored on maps that you can easily download to the unit.

2) For those situations where the cartographers don't know about the roads/trails you use: The ability to download a track or route from saved from a previous trip, from the internet, or even made from scratch on your computer, put said track/route in your GPS and have it route you to where you want to go.

I don't work for Garmin, nor do any of my relatives. I just want to know from someone with first hand experience what GPS units on the market will do those 2 things. The Lowrance Baja 540c is the only GPS unit out there that seems to be marketed for off road use and it always comes up in these discussions. That is why I am asking.

I hope I have not offended you by asking direct questions about things you have stated in your posts. It seems that my goal is to implement on NAXJA exactly what you have already accomplished on MJR and I appreciate the very valuable information you have shared.

[IntrepidXJ]

I can also make .pdf maps that should print out nicely on an 8.5x11 piece of paper for people without GPS units.

If you haven't already, use the website above and use GPSbabel to convert the tracks to Google Earth to play with them in there.

You can also post the KML files (Google Earth is free so anyone can download it) to share and print out maps.

http://myxj.net/g2/d/99799-2/EngineerPass.jpg

http://myxj.net/g2/d/99804-2/ChickenCorners.jpg

http://myxj.net/g2/d/99875-2/HancockPassAlpine.jpg

[FishPOET]

I have no experience with anything other than Garmin units. That is why I am asking here... to learn first hand experience from those who have it. I really want to know if the Lowrance 540c can do these two things:

1) Automatically generate a route from point A to point B, using roads stored on maps that you can easily download to the unit.
To the best of my knowledge any GPSr with autorouting capabilities will take you from point A to point B using roads stored on maps that you can download to the unit. Having never used a Lowrance 540c I can only assume from reading others experiences that it does not have an autorouting feature.

If I had a Lowrance 540c I could upload 1,000 waypoints/1,000 event markers/100 routes/100 savable plot trails/10,000 points per trail. I could for instance upload every track/route I have for the SBNF. I could the follow any of the tracks/routes without autorouting. (which is what I do now with my GPSV. Even though it has autorouting, that feature is disabled with the custom set of maps I have uploaded) My GPSMap60cs has autorouting and Garmin Topo uploaded and it only works on about 10% of the trails in the SBNF. On the other 90% of the trails autorouting does not work and I have to follow tracks/routes that I have manually uploaded to the unit. Until Garmin produces better topo maps, or allows 2nd party topo software to be uploaded, the autorouting feature on their units is useless for a large portion of the country once anyone leaves the main roads.

The Garmin National Parks software has much better detail than their regular Topo software. Not quite sure why.


2) For those situations where the cartographers don't know about the roads/trails you use: The ability to download a track or route from saved from a previous trip, from the internet, or even made from scratch on your computer, put said track/route in your GPS and have it route you to where you want to go.
I'm pretty sure your Garmin will not autoroute you on tracks you have uploaded. It may autoroute you from point A to point B to point C on a route in a generic way since it does not know the names of the trails you are on. It can tell you to turn left on Broadway Street in 500' because it hes been programmed to know where Broadway Street is. The software has no idea where or what 3N30 is or 2N25 and no idea where they intersect. At best the unit will tell you to turn left on road or turn right at point B in 500'. Autorouting is a very complex software that has to have hundreds of thousands of intersections programmed in to work properly across the country.

The Lowrance Baja 540c is the only GPS unit out there that seems to be marketed for off road use and it always comes up in these discussions.
It is one area where Garmin has really dropped the ball. A shame really.

Years ago when I rode dual sports I had to have my GPS V hardened so the vibration woudn't wreck the unit. It also had to be hardwired as the batteries would bounce around and lose contact shutting the unit down. Then Touratech came out with awesome mounting units and solved the vibration problems.

I hope I have not offended you by asking direct questions about things you have stated in your posts. It seems that my goal is to implement on NAXJA exactly what you have already accomplished on MJR and I appreciate the very valuable information you have shared.
No offense taken. Until NAXJA allows the uploading of .gpx, .mps, .tpo, .tpg, .wpt, .loc, etc. it w cannot have the system that MJR has. I know very little about websites, but I have been told that allowing certain types of uploads creates a serious security threat to the stability of the website.

[FishPOET]

If you haven't already, use the website above and use GPSbabel to convert the tracks to Google Earth to play with them in there.

You can also post the KML files (Google Earth is free so anyone can download it) to share and print out maps.
Google Earth is amazing and getting better everyday. This is not my pic, but a good example of how powerful Google Earth can be for offroaders.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=331613&stc=1&d=1192912571

I still have much to learn about Google Earth and it is hard to stay current as it is changing rapidly. IMO Google Earth is cutting edge and positioned to make most other maps obsolete.

The future is using real time moveable maps like the on above on a screen in your Jeep connected to a GPSr. Add in APRS and you would be able to see where all your buddies were on the map at the same time. Amazing.

[IntrepidXJ]

BTW- Alex.....here's another good link for you:

http://rockymountainextreme.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

[Handlebars]

FishPOET, I think I see why the baja guys like the 540c, that thing has a huge track log capacity. I guess you could prerun an entire 1000+ mile race and have every turn saved in your GPS for the 10/10ths effort of the real thing.

Have you read my post about the Zumo (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=928602)? I show the different ways that GPS can route you. I also talk about the various maps Garmin offers for their GPSs. I wonder if any of the SBNF dirt roads are on the City Navigator map. Quite a few of them here in NM are in there.

I also am happy to see the advent of satellite photos becoming widely available. However, I think of them as a more valuable tool to use at home while planning a trip, or afterwards to show others where you went then while you are actually out there. A GPS display is hard enough to read with the bright sun shining in the windows of your moving vehicle. The switch to cartoon-like brightly colored moving maps has made it a lot easier for me to read what my GPS is telling me without having to stop and squint. The subtlety of an aerial photo would be lost on me in my Jeep. I tried using NG Topo's 1:24k maps on a laptop hooked to a GPS for a while, that was a pain to read. Too much information for me to figure out where to go! I would usually plot some waypoints and send them to my GPS to follow anyways.

Randy, that RME trails page is what got me thinking about setting up something similar here. I don't want to pay for a subscription to be able to load the tracks into my GPS, now I can convert them with GPS Visualizer so I will spend some more time there! One thing I do enjoy about using Garmin's Mapsource program is the easy access to Google Maps and Google Earth. One of the choices in the "view" menu is to see your file in either Google program. I use that option with everything I run through Mapsource.

[karstic]

I wonder if any of the SBNF dirt roads are on the City Navigator map. Quite a few of them here in NM are in there.



To a certain extent, yes. The problem is completness/currentness. Through trails don't always show as through trails. As an an example, we did a geocaching run a few years back in the El Paso mountains/Randsberg area in the Mojave desert. The topo maps showed a trail going through a canyon. The CN software had the same trail except for a 1-2 mile section was missing. When I tried to set up a route with the autoroute function the software threw out a 15 mile detour around the missing section.

[Handlebars]

That reminds me... I have a couple of maps I bought in a store there that are collecting dust. Hillman's Gem & Minerals Maps, of Randsberg and Last Chance Canyon. Do you know anyone who will give them a good home?

[Fish'nCarz]

I also am happy to see the advent of satellite photos becoming widely available. However, I think of them as a more valuable tool to use at home while planning a trip, or afterwards to show others where you went then while you are actually out there. A GPS display is hard enough to read with the bright sun shining in the windows of your moving vehicle. The switch to cartoon-like brightly colored moving maps has made it a lot easier for me to read what my GPS is telling me without having to stop and squint. The subtlety of an aerial photo would be lost on me in my Jeep. I tried using NG Topo's 1:24k maps on a laptop hooked to a GPS for a while, that was a pain to read. Too much information for me to figure out where to go! I would usually plot some waypoints and send them to my GPS to follow anyways.


Yeah, I thot the same thing, but when you are in the boonies and run across a trail that doesn't show up on your vendors map or the USGS 7.5 minute topo aerial photos rock. Not only can you see where you are, you can usually see where the trail dumps out. Give them a try. They are certainly not in everyones price range, but once you get comfortable looking at the world from an airplane they really add a new dimension to land navigation.

Now if they would only show stereo pairs of air photos!!!

[KSXJ]

has anyone tried the lowrance XOG?
http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Automotive/XOG/

appears to be like the magellan crossover and for only 250 at bass pro. So maybe a better option.

[tkjeeper]

I also use the magellan explorist 500. Have used it a lot over the past year. I have the mount for the jeep but I use it at work a lot also. Great for finding those addresses that are tough to find. But I needed a handheld unit for geocaching. That provides endless fun throughout the winter months for the family, too busy in the summer but gets us out and about in the snow. Got the street maps as well as the topo program. Thrilled with it. From my research and for my use the only other one I might like to have would be the Garmin 60sx. I believe thats the one. But hey, it's over three times the cost up here so I'm happy with what I have.

[FordGuy]

I have a Baja 540c. also own a Garmin 60cs. first of all depending how much you use it there is huge differences between Lowrance and the other more consumer built units. the Lowrance is made to get the job done basic and very fast. it zooms topo 5 times faster then my Garmin. thats why you will never see any other brand being used in off road racing. The bad news with Lowrance is you are very limited to software. you can only use Map Create where with Garmin you can use National Geographic Topo which has unbelievable detail. I do love the huge color screen on my 540c. Its also water proof for the most part as it is built is there marine chassis.

[FordGuy]

There is plenty of room!http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/richrader/IMG_1030.jpg