Prosecute the kid for SoCal fires?

[SCW]

I wouldn't. I seems he made an honest mistake, I played with matches at that age too, but I didn't live in a state with such amazingly retarded land use issues that a small fire would quickly burn down 2000 homes.

I think I'd look hard at pointing the finger at policy makers.

Any opines?

[ChiXJeff]

I can't speak about Cali's land management issues. If it's anything like the National Forest Service policies for quite a few years, they should share at least part of the blame.

IIRC, it was a relatively young kid. His parents, OTOH......

[ZacSquatch]

Take away his lego's, tie mommy's tubes and cut daddy's...

[BruceB83]

Don't be a dumba$$ and crap like that won't happen. Hell yeah he should be prosecuted. Just for that fire alone he cost people 2,000 homes and an exorbitant amount of money. I'm not saying give him the death penalty but he has to pay some kind of consequence. Kids who don't pay consequences for their wrong actions just grow up to be brats or much worse anyways.

Hopefully he at least got an really good a-beating from his dad...accident or not. Just because it was an "accident" doesn't mean he shouldn't suffer consequences. Most drunk driving wrecks are "accidents" also...they usually don't plan on going out and killing somebody in a collision.

[RTicUL8]

When I was 8 I was in the process of trying to light a dumpster full of construction scrap on fire when a police cruiser spotted me - luckily.

I was thinking to myself that any fire would be contained in the dumpster.

However, I did not take into consideration that the dumpster was pushed up to the side of a 3-story frame building - my dad's business.
That would of have been baaad if I blew up dad & his business.

The cop let me off easy. He took my matches and let me off with a warning.

===

I can't imagine the internal demons that will haunt this kid every day for the rest of his life. I wonder if they will be punishment enough or not.

* I vote for the demons and also taking away his x-box :thumbup: :D


.

[Rev Den]

As long as he pays for it, all of it, to the dollar, then he should be let off.

Rev

[RTicUL8]

As long as he pays for it, all of it, to the dollar, then he should be let off.

Rev

Now that I think about it, I agree with Rev!

Because I'll end up paying for it by an increase in insurance premiums. http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/569.gif

===

The kid better start thinking of multi-billion $$ ideas now! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/1436.gif

[IslanderOffRoad]

I wouldn't. I seems he made an honest mistake, I played with matches at that age too, but I didn't live in a state with such amazingly retarded land use issues that a small fire would quickly burn down 2000 homes.

I think I'd look hard at pointing the finger at policy makers.

Any opines?

what do our land use issues have to do with the fire?

i say hang the bastard.

[5-90]

Go after his folks for not teaching him any better.

Go after California for over-regulating everything and making this sort of thing possible.

"Juvenile Delinquent" is an oxymoron. "Juvenile" is usually considered as "too young to accept adult responsibility," "delinquent" means "not fulfilling responsibilities."

I've not read the reports yet - but I'm getting the feeling that the kid was too young to understand what he was doing. His folks would then be at fault.

[Kejtar]

what do our land use issues have to do with the fire?

Because of the stupid rules regarding clearing away the deadwood and stuff, but that's neither here nor there. It does not matter if the fire is small or big. Starting a fire is starting a fire. My folks have instilled in me respect for fire since I was a kid and even if they did not, I'd expect to be held accountable for the fire if I started one.
i say hang the bastard.
x2 AND THE PARENTS as well.

[oo7ravisXJ]

Their's no way that this kid will ever be able to live a normal life if he is held for even 10% of the total damages. It would devisate his family. I think that the kid should go to jail till he's 18 or something similar that wont drasticly ruin the lives of these people.

Lots of kids start fires and end up burning down their own homes, this time it just got way out of hand. Im sure that if the firefighters allowed those fires to keep burning, they would eventualy become as giant and devisating as the one in san diego.

And maybe the system or the firefighters are partly to blame, because they didnt contain it in time, or due to lack of resources, or maybe because the fire was to big by the time it was finnaly reported. I dont know, but its not like the kid went around san diego starting every building that was lost on fire.

yadida?

[IslanderOffRoad]

And maybe the system or the firefighters are partly to blame, because they didnt contain it in time, or due to lack of resources, or maybe because the fire was to big by the time it was finnaly reported. I dont know, but its not like the kid went around san diego starting every building that was lost on fire.

yadida?

you can't seriously think about blaming the firefighters?

[oo7ravisXJ]

I seriously doubt it was a firefighter mistake, but u see my point, you never know. Most likely the problem was in the amount of time it took to report the fires. But everybody makes mistakes, and you cant rule anything out. And this is all coming from a kid who's perusing a career as a firefighter, and is a Fire Explorer for Livermore Pleanston FD.

[Stumpalump]

Livermore is the white trash haven for Bay area looser's.

California reinvented what the Japs did to get ahead. The got it twisted but it still worked for them. In California every problem must be analized down to the lowest person. Blame them and fix them and problem is solved. Now California had 14 fires and they want to thro all the attention on one small kid that played with matches. They found their scapegoat and problem is solved. Thats the twisted part. Like was said, what about controlled burns and the fact that they knew they were building in fire alleys. Reminds me of New Orleans. Hello they built a city underwater and they want to blame everbody else. New orleans neglected the situation and so did California. Hard to give much pity if I look at it that way. Whaterver the man made reasons it's still horrible sad times for all those who lost everthing. soob.

[oo7ravisXJ]

Livermore is the white trash haven for Bay area looser's.



Wow man, really? I wasn't aware of that.

[SCW]

Aw hell, better buy ammo and stockade the house, the end of the world is here. Not only do I agree with Stump-a-dump, he actually makes sense.

*sigh*





:D

[JohnX]

Aw hell, better buy ammo and stockade the house, the end of the world is here. Not only do I agree with Stump-a-dump, he actually makes sense.

*sigh*





:D
Agreed also.



imho...He should be punished, but not financially. That would only cripple his family and him forever. Not sure how old he is, but if he's under 13-14ish, then I think a little commmunity service is in order. It will teach him the lesson he needs to learn, without making him hate the system for his whole life. I completely disagree with any kind of jail time because it will only turn a stupid kid into a criminal kid.

[5-90]

I seriously doubt it was a firefighter mistake, but u see my point, you never know. Most likely the problem was in the amount of time it took to report the fires. But everybody makes mistakes, and you cant rule anything out. And this is all coming from a kid who's perusing a career as a firefighter, and is a Fire Explorer for Livermore Pleanston FD.

I also doubt it was a firefighter mistake - firemen are usually crippled by the same thing that gets in the way of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and cops - politicians. Pols don't seem to realise they don't understand what they've hired other people to do - then they try to control doing it anyhow (this is a Very Bad Thing (tm))

Just because you're elected to office doesn't mean you know everything - Hell, most of those people don't know anything, and don't belong in charge of anything higher on the evolutionary scale than rocks...

[Stumpalump]

The firerfighters in Colorado wait untill forest fires are so big before they get serious about fighting them. They only get Federal dollers if it's over a certain size. Our Goverment at work!

[BruceB83]

Agreed also.



imho...He should be punished, but not financially. That would only cripple his family and him forever. Not sure how old he is, but if he's under 13-14ish, then I think a little commmunity service is in order. It will teach him the lesson he needs to learn, without making him hate the system for his whole life. I completely disagree with any kind of jail time because it will only turn a stupid kid into a criminal kid.
*shivers up spine* I also agree.

Plus, if you financially doom this kid and his family, that is only going to create one more family, and then when the kid is own his own, possibly another that is completely in ruins and has no chance at ever becoming self-supportive again. They would probably end up just having to live off of the government and that would defeat the purpose of the punishment anyways. This is obviously not a case of a future arsonist here so I think he needs to really learn from this. The punishment should not doom him for life. If he intentionally started this, with criminal and malicious intent...then yeah, hang him high, but he didn't. I'm not even sure if jail time is the answer here. I am more thinking along the lines of awareness and community service...ALOT of it. Like someone else said, I'm sure the guilt he will be suffering is enough. Pair that with making him speak to kids at school, attend awareness events, and have him do many many many many many hours of community service....you might come out with a better citizen than what was started with. That is what needs to be done. Not make him hate the world.

[DrMoab]

Aw hell, better buy ammo and stockade the house, the end of the world is here. Not only do I agree with Stump-a-dump, he actually makes sense.
I had that happen last week. It was weird. I am still trying to wash the nastiness off me.

Man though you guys are pretty harsh. First off...no one has said how old this kid is.

If he is 13 or older I say yeah, through the book at him. He is old enough to know better.

If he is just a little kid though... There is a reason most states will not allow you to prosecute a kid as an adult who is younger then 14. A kid 8 or 9 years old does not know better a lot of the times and it seems pretty evil to me to ruin their lives forever when they make a mistake that they do not have the mental capability to understand the consequences of their actions.

Personally as harsh is this sounds...If you build a house in an area that you KNOW will burn one day and you don't clear the brush and crap around your yard and then a fire comes through and burns it down...its YOUR FAULT!

I understand these fires went through hoods where that isn't always the case but a lot of times it is.

[slider]

I had that happen last week. It was weird. I am still trying to wash the nastiness off me.

Man though you guys are pretty harsh. First off...no one has said how old this kid is.

If he is 13 or older I say yeah, through the book at him. He is old enough to know better.

If he is just a little kid though... There is a reason most states will not allow you to prosecute a kid as an adult who is younger then 14. A kid 8 or 9 years old does not know better a lot of the times and it seems pretty evil to me to ruin their lives forever when they make a mistake that they do not have the mental capability to understand the consequences of their actions.

Personally as harsh is this sounds...If you build a house in an area that you KNOW will burn one day and you don't clear the brush and crap around your yard and then a fire comes through and burns it down...its YOUR FAULT!

I understand these fires went through hoods where that isn't always the case but a lot of times it is.

it's a good thing we just got our a$$es beat when we caught your parents hollow on fire. that could have turned out almost the same.

[DrMoab]

it's a good thing we just got our a$$es beat when we caught your parents hollow on fire. that could have turned out almost the same.
Yep, but we were what? 6? maybe 8? Sure as hell not old enough to know what we were doing. Thats exactly what I mean.

[crasy1_69]

As far as the kid and his parents are concerned I honestly think they should be spending many hours doing community service work. They should have to help with the cleanup of other homes. That might help drive the point home for the kid. Maybe it will help straighten him out before he ends up in jail later in life. Putting the kid or his parents in jail won't do anything but create an additional burden on the public. Giving them all community service will help keep some of the burden off the community and give them a way of paying back for what they caused.

[slider]

Yep, but we were what? 6? maybe 8? Sure as hell not old enough to know what we were doing. Thats exactly what I mean.

we were camping...the pretend fire just got alittle bigger than we wanted. it funny though. i can remember the foot keep hitting me in the backside when walking back. musta worked i haven't burnt anything else down since then.

[DrMoab]

As far as the kid and his parents are concerned I honestly think they should be spending many hours doing community service work. They should have to help with the cleanup of other homes. That might help drive the point home for the kid. Maybe it will help straighten him out before he ends up in jail later in life. Putting the kid or his parents in jail won't do anything but create an additional burden on the public. Giving them all community service will help keep some of the burden off the community and give them a way of paying back for what they caused.
I wouldn't have a problem with that. The kid obviously needs to know how serious something like that is.

Saying he is going to end up in jail in later life is a stretch though. You are assuming he is a problem child or prone to getting in trouble.

Almost every little boy at one time or another has played with matches. Just because his experiment got way out of hand doesn't make him a bad kid.

[crasy1_69]

I wouldn't have a problem with that. The kid obviously needs to know how serious something like that is.

Saying he is going to end up in jail in later life is a stretch though. You are assuming he is a problem child or prone to getting in trouble.

Almost every little boy at one time or another has played with matches. Just because his experiment got way out of hand doesn't make him a bad kid.

Very true. Sometimes I forget that I played with fire a lot. As I got older when I was messing with fire i kept a hose running next to me. Working in a school setting sometimes its hard not to see the bad side. The kid will most likely learn a lesson from all of this. I'm sure he will have to fight the demons in his head over this for the rest of his life.

[Rob Mayercik]

I also doubt it was a firefighter mistake - firemen are usually crippled by the same thing that gets in the way of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and cops - politicians. Pols don't seem to realise they don't understand what they've hired other people to do - then they try to control doing it anyhow (this is a Very Bad Thing (tm))

Just because you're elected to office doesn't mean you know everything - Hell, most of those people don't know anything, and don't belong in charge of anything higher on the evolutionary scale than rocks...

True, but as an off-road enthusiast, even the idea of letting the Pols be in charge of rocks is a Bad Thing(TM).

[djblade311]

I think that either the child or the parents should get punishment. Financially? no. The child and/or the parents should be required to do community service by working with forestry service for land maintenance. Help with controlled burns, cutting down trees, trail maintenance, etc.

The land maintenance issue is also a big problem. by not doing any land maintenance to clear fuel like that is just asking for trouble.

Just my .02

[5-90]

True, but as an off-road enthusiast, even the idea of letting the Pols be in charge of rocks is a Bad Thing(TM).

Over the last fifty years or so, it's been abundantly proven that letting pols be in charge of anything is a Bad Thing (tm)...

[Waterhammer]

The firerfighters in Colorado wait untill forest fires are so big before they get serious about fighting them. They only get Federal dollers if it's over a certain size. Our Goverment at work!

Please get a clue, please. Spoken like someone who really has no idea about firefighting in the wildland interface. As a veteran Co firefighter let me tell you that no one in their right mind would let a fire grow just to get Fed assistance. Next time you get a thunderstorm out there, expecially in late summer, realize that at least one of the lightening strikes you see has started a fire. And there's a local fire dept on it's way to put it out. Fed money is there for small rural departments with small operating budgets to cope with large scale fires.

As far as policy, BLM and NFS for the past 100 or so years have instituted a 0 burn ethic which has let literally tons of fuel accumulate on forest floors. Naturaly processes (controlled burns) were never let happen. Drought, heat and lots of fuel create these huge fires so quickly firefighters are having to develop new stragties to fight them.

What can you do to this kid to get him and his parents to realize the consequences of his actions? I dunno. Give him a pulaski and put him and the 'rents on a fireline for a few weeks...

[SCW]

Please get a clue, please. Spoken like someone who really has no idea about firefighting in the wildland interface.


As far as policy, BLM and NFS for the past 100 or so years have instituted a 0 burn ethic which has let literally tons of fuel accumulate on forest floors. Naturaly processes (controlled burns) were never let happen. Drought, heat and lots of fuel create these huge fires so quickly firefighters are having to develop new stragties to fight them.


Yeah, that didn't last long :D

That was my point to begin with- a kid made it start, policy made it burn down 2000 homes.

[5-90]

Please get a clue, please. Spoken like someone who really has no idea about firefighting in the wildland interface. As a veteran Co firefighter let me tell you that no one in their right mind would let a fire grow just to get Fed assistance. Next time you get a thunderstorm out there, expecially in late summer, realize that at least one of the lightening strikes you see has started a fire. And there's a local fire dept on it's way to put it out. Fed money is there for small rural departments with small operating budgets to cope with large scale fires.

As far as policy, BLM and NFS for the past 100 or so years have instituted a 0 burn ethic which has let literally tons of fuel accumulate on forest floors. Naturaly processes (controlled burns) were never let happen. Drought, heat and lots of fuel create these huge fires so quickly firefighters are having to develop new stragties to fight them.

What can you do to this kid to get him and his parents to realize the consequences of his actions? I dunno. Give him a pulaski and put him and the 'rents on a fireline for a few weeks...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm willing to be the rank-and-file firemen would prefer to catch the fires before they've gotten bigger than a match.

Politicians screw up everything else. The problem with higher-higher positions (just above the rank-and-file - like Chiefs and Commissioners) is that they largely become political positions as well, and they tend to get infected with the political mentality.

I like your idea - as long as the parents are included (if a juvenile does something wrong, it's obvious that his parents are remiss in their responsibility. The juvenile should be punished to some degree - similar to rubbing a dog's nose in his mess. The parents should be punished - they were the ones truly remiss in their duty...)

[azdesertrhino]

In the long run - The kid isn't going to pay. We will probably pay for his therapy.

The parents won't pay, they're probably too poor and have to pay for part of his therapy.

And who the hell do y'all think is going to pay for this disaster? Do you pay taxes?

I wonder what the hell they are going to do when the taxes exceed my meager salary??

[5-90]

In the long run - The kid isn't going to pay. We will probably pay for his therapy.

The parents won't pay, they're probably too poor and have to pay for part of his therapy.

And who the hell do y'all think is going to pay for this disaster? Do you pay taxes?

I wonder what the hell they are going to do when the taxes exceed my meager salary??

Don't you mean, "What am I going to do when the government finally spends me into wealth?"

Heinlein once said that only our elected representatives should pay taxes. The idea behind that being that, if they're going to spend all of their time passing laws and measures we usually neither want nor need, it makes good sense to keep them as financially weak as possible...

It makes a left-handed sort of sense, actually. As long as they're convinced they're just spending other people's money, there's nothing to encourage frugality...

[tybo]

I feel the same way as a lot of you guys. They should help with the clean up. that kid is not the only one that played with fire befor. The states are about half to blame to.

[98XJSport]

If a kid gets a gun, knife, etc and causes damages, parent's get charged. Same should be for matches and lighters.

[Stumpalump]

I hope those on here who are biltching about taxes follow whats going on in politics and you do a small part to pass the word. Did you watch the last Democrate debate? Bush failed so we are going to punish you with new programs and taxes. 16years of free edjucation, free healthcare, punish and tax the companies that sell you energy ( who do you think will pay for that).Eliminate Bushes tax cuts. Every working man that has a kid will loose hundreds as soon as they repeal the evil tax cuts for the rich. If you have a job you are rich by their standards so yall will pay. They are buying votes by telling people that if you vote for me you will get free health care, free 5000 per kid that you pump out and we will punish the rich so they are as poor as you. I'd rather blast a billion doller spaceship to the moon than give a handout to sombody. Why don't they tell the people times are tough and everybody needs to get on the ball with edjucation,retirment savings and take care of your body because we arn't going to hold your freaking hand. Can you imajine telling your kids that you won't need health care or retirment saving, the goverment will pay 5000 per kid you have and minimum wage will get so high that you will be as good off as the evil rich we are going to punish. What would be left to motivate them. I show my kids my paycheck and I also show them how much more I'm taxed on everthing I buy. I show them the endless list of fees and taxes added onto utility bills. I show them the gas pump recipt and remind them of all the taxes that are hidden in the cost that I must pay with whats left over from what they taxed me on allready. Now The Dems want more and tell suckers that their lives will be paid for by the rich so you need to vote for me. What a bunch of political whores.

[5-90]

I hope those on here who are biltching about taxes follow whats going on in politics and you do a small part to pass the word. Did you watch the last Democrate debate? Bush failed so we are going to punish you with new programs and taxes. 16years of free edjucation, free healthcare, punish and tax the companies that sell you energy ( who do you think will pay for that).Eliminate Bushes tax cuts. Every working man that has a kid will loose hundreds as soon as they repeal the evil tax cuts for the rich. If you have a job you are rich by their standards so yall will pay. They are buying votes by telling people that if you vote for me you will get free health care, free 5000 per kid that you pump out and we will punish the rich so they are as poor as you. I'd rather blast a billion doller spaceship to the moon than give a handout to sombody. Why don't they tell the people times are tough and everybody needs to get on the ball with edjucation,retirment savings and take care of your body because we arn't going to hold your freaking hand. Can you imajine telling your kids that you won't need health care or retirment saving, the goverment will pay 5000 per kid you have and minimum wage will get so high that you will be as good off as the evil rich we are going to punish. What would be left to motivate them. I show my kids my paycheck and I also show them how much more I'm taxed on everthing I buy. I show them the endless list of fees and taxes added onto utility bills. I show them the gas pump recipt and remind them of all the taxes that are hidden in the cost that I must pay with whats left over from what they taxed me on allready. Now The Dems want more and tell suckers that their lives will be paid for by the rich so you need to vote for me. What a bunch of political whores.

Oh, believe me, I do. "TANSTAAFL" - and I'm constantly trying to remind people of that (The government gives you money? Where do you think they get it? They either take it from everyone else, or just print it themselves and make what's in circulation worth less...)

What people really don't realise is that the money they make has been taxed several times before they see it, and will be taxed several more times before they're quit of it. I'd be willing to bet (I've never figured it out specifically) that fully half to two-thirds of the money we make and spend goes, sooner or later, into paying some tax or another.

TANSTAAFL

[Russ Pottenger]

Take away his lego's, tie mommy's tubes and cut daddy's...
Now Thats Funny.

[BruceB83]

...I show my kids my paycheck and I also show them how much more I'm taxed on everthing I buy. I show them the endless list of fees and taxes added onto utility bills. I show them the gas pump recipt and remind them of all the taxes that are hidden in the cost that I must pay with whats left over from what they taxed me on allready. Now The Dems want more and tell suckers that their lives will be paid for by the rich so you need to vote for me. What a bunch of political whores.

....you have kids!?!?! :scared:

Just messing with ya man.

[Russ Pottenger]

X-2 Stumpalump,

I remember my Dad telling me... When you start paying the electric bill is when you will remember to turn off the lights when you leave the room.

The wisdom of my Dad.