EPA is outlawing Painting and paint stripping

OK, now that I have your attention, I have been reading and working on a public comment to file with the EPA on a new rule, regulation that has been proposed which will require the use of HVLP paint guns, paint booths with filters, a roof and three sides, enclosed paint gun cleaners, and will require a formal plan to be filed with the EPA in order to use methylene chloride containing paint strippers, and then only "certified" trained painters will be able to do the painting, :shiver: this will cover any and all misc. metal or plastic painting, not just automotive, but all automotive as well that is done by small facilities (real large facilities are already tightly regulated) which probalby includes joe blow in his back yard as well. THIS MEANS YOU!

The proposed rule is online, and the deadline for filing public comments (good or bad, pro or con) is wednesday next week, Oct 17th.

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t3/fr_notices/paintstrpng_prop090607.pdf

Oh, and this is what we get from a freedom loving, flag waving Republican administration and its hand picked EPA staff that claim to want to reduce government regulation and controls.

Ya, Righhht! :yelclap:

Sorry for the attention getting title, but please read this and you will see why I listed it that way, because it would in fact have that effect on most of us by making it too costly to comply with the new regs for even a once a year paint project, unless it is rewritten to add exemptions!

I have posted my detailed comments on this topic in the paint forum thread link below. Suffice it to say if we don't make a huge noise in Washington and drown the EPA with negative comments about this proposed new regulation before Wednesday next week, we can all probably say BY-BY to small do it your self car painting projects in this Freedom Loving Republican Flag Waving Reduced Government Control Over Our Lives Country (FLFWRGCOOLC) and as I recall it was Bush Jr. saying he was going to reduce government regulation in our lives. Ya-Righhhhht!


I think all of us in this forum should take the time to get involved in this attempt to outlaw homeowner and small business painting. It will basically require a real paint booth, a "certified" trained painter, an enclosed paint gun cleaner, and on top of that if you use methylene chloride containing paint strippers it will require a federally approved plan filed with the EPA for a permit to use it first! Then they will add a state permit based on all this just buy paint next!

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243622415#post243622415

I will be posting more detailed comments as I complete my first reading of this brief 126 page :shiver: proposed new regulation that would be enforced nationwide.

Linking to another page that has the link doesn't exactly inspire me to wanna click said link.

kunaji said:

Linking to another page that has the link doesn't exactly inspire me to wanna click said link.

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Its here:

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t3/fr_notices/paintstrpng_prop090607.pdf


Sorry, I was trying to get the word out quickly due to the deadline, and I wanted to move or keep the bulk of the discussion in the paint forum since it IS related to painting, but felt it was a wide enough topic to sort of post a hey look over there notice in this forum. I do environmental consulting for local manufacturers that do painting here in Houston ( I have worked in the paint area since 1973), and yet I browse the paint forum maybe once a year if I get really bored.

gasp.....the nazi's!!!

seriously though I will still paint my own vehicle.Just as people drive without catalytic converters.
that being said I bet they won't be camped out in the woods watching for bootleg automobile painters:eeks1:

They would have to stop the sale of all aerosol or non-aerosol can spray from all auto parts(R&S Strauss, Pep Boys, etc.) and home improvement places (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.). Would that even fly with all these big corporations making these products?

EVOKIN said:

They would have to stop the sale of all aerosol or non-aerosol can spray from all auto parts(R&S Strauss, Pep Boys, etc.) and home improvement places (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.). Would that even fly with all these big corporations making these products?

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What would you want to bet that most of these outfits making "rattle can" paint also make both "professional" paint and equipment - and make higher profits on the high-end stuff?

Everytime I see a bill like this going through, I wonder just how much the industry involved had to do with it. Paint shops would just love this - because those who are ready for it would have an inrush of business because you can't DIY anymore, and because the little shops can't afford to upgrade their equipment to comply.

Dumb question - why can't the paint be reformulated, instead of forcing everyone to get new equipment? Riddle me that...

I liken it to the "environmentally friendly" solvents being forced down our throats. I'll still use trichloroethane, xylene, toluene, and the like when I can find it - because it works better and does a better job. How is it more "environmentally friendly" to use a less-active (or lower VOC) solvent when you end up having to use four to six times as much? I've been using the same gallon can of acetone to clean parts for the last seven years or so, it's worked better than anything else I can find (save carbon tet - which was outlawed years ago... Pity - I used to use that to clean brass for target rounds.)

5-90 said:

I liken it to the "environmentally friendly" solvents being forced down our throats. I'll still use trichloroethane, xylene, toluene, and the like when I can find it - because it works better and does a better job. How is it more "environmentally friendly" to use a less-active (or lower VOC) solvent when you end up having to use four to six times as much?

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It's true; ever use low VOC polyethylene?

Re: Republican EPA to outlaw car painting...

The administration likely had to throw the econazi's a bone. People have empty lives and have to fill them up with something.
It's been that way here for a long time. I've gotten really good with a brush and foam roller. It's kind of nice not having to clean the gun after you get done.
Neighbors called the cops because I was painting a truck. I was using a roller and household window trim paint (fast dry enamel). Cops got anal and said the ordinance reads no automotive painting, it doesn't say which type of materials are forbidden. I took the door off and said now it's a door and not an automobile.
The last I heard (research I've been wanting to do), the magnetic north pole will have moved 2200 KM from Nova Scotia to the North tip of Sweden from 1960-2020 (60 years). Anything to do with the ozone hole in the atmosphere? The weakest magnetic protection from the suns rays are at the magnetic poles.
There is a large scale replanting of the forests in Germany. Due to bark beetle infestations, acid rain, harvesting and climate change. They are planing which type of trees to plant that will live through the climate change and are resistant to other stress factors. They have decided the varieties that where endemic 3500 years ago are ideal, the climate was hotter then than today, the atmosphere higher in CO2 and the trees mostly native anyway in some form or another.
I really think the politicians and planners, get people focused on proactive measures to divert attention away from dynamic forces they have absolutely no control over to avoid panic.
People get focused on minutiae and loose track of the big picture.

What are they thinking? Theres too many large companies that would not let this happen, at least not in the neat future. I can see some forced reformulating in the coatings industries sooner. In the future if you dont have an EPA approved shop and have to do a repaint on your XJ's bumpers you will have to do it in secret. What if your neighbour saw you and snitched you out? Could a cop pull you over if he suspected you of painting without a permit?
This is coming from the same people who introduced the clunker bill. If that would have happened most of our XJ's would have been forced into an early retirement.
I refuse to let crap like that get me paranoid, that reminds me I have to move a few cars around my driveway so the township thinks they are drivers (not projects waiting in line). Theres always a way around an obstacle.
We will see a movement towards the universal solvent (h2o). User friendly?

Re: Republican EPA to outlaw car painting...

let them fine me. They will have to find my garage at the back of my pot plantation first...oh damn did I say that out loud????

I don't see anywhere on there that it states it is "outlawing" painting. It only says that the selected areas would have to comply with regulations and safe practices, and that they must comply with proper training techniques of applying coatings.

From what i read it makes sense to me and paint shops should have to comply.

Look, just paint in your garages.

There's plenty of people spewing R12 out into the atmosphere when that's technically illegal too.

5-90 said:

What would you want to bet that most of these outfits making "rattle can" paint also make both "professional" paint and equipment - and make higher profits on the high-end stuff?

Everytime I see a bill like this going through, I wonder just how much the industry involved had to do with it. Paint shops would just love this - because those who are ready for it would have an inrush of business because you can't DIY anymore, and because the little shops can't afford to upgrade their equipment to comply.

Dumb question - why can't the paint be reformulated, instead of forcing everyone to get new equipment? Riddle me that...

I liken it to the "environmentally friendly" solvents being forced down our throats. I'll still use trichloroethane, xylene, toluene, and the like when I can find it - because it works better and does a better job. How is it more "environmentally friendly" to use a less-active (or lower VOC) solvent when you end up having to use four to six times as much? I've been using the same gallon can of acetone to clean parts for the last seven years or so, it's worked better than anything else I can find (save carbon tet - which was outlawed years ago... Pity - I used to use that to clean brass for target rounds.)

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x2, reminds me of the new toilets which use less gallons per flush, but most times you have to flush twice cuz they suck.

Aniyunwiya said:

Not sure how many of you have lived near someone who paints cars in their garage, but it sucks real bad. When I'm kicking it at the manor, all I want to smell is fresh cut grass, not the neighbors paint booth!

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Old lady across the street screamed every Saturday when I'd be trying to work the bugs out of my Diesel MOG. Called the cops on me half a dozen times.
I finally painted the whole works hot pink and parked it in front of her living room window for two years.
I feel a bit guilty, she has been in the loney bin for the past couple of years. Guess she was wound a little too tight and something snapped.
The sound of her nagging was at least as annoying as the smell of diesel fumes.

Hahah, yeah, unfortunately not all pesky neighbors end up there. I wish.

ha ha good thing my friend and I rattle canned his Dodge today in a hanger.

Re: Republican EPA to outlaw car painting...

Based on my professional experience it is much better to use the current public comment period (tool) to educate the bureaucrats and help them rewrite the rule to make it more flexible, and to help accomplish their intended goals, which there early drafts could rarely do. These regs are frequently written and ediited by people who have too little or no experience with what they are regulating, and they need help from people like us who do have experience.

xray said:

I refuse to let crap like that get me paranoid, that reminds me I have to move a few cars around my driveway so the township thinks they are drivers (not projects waiting in line). Theres always a way around an obstacle.
We will see a movement towards the universal solvent (h2o). User friendly?

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Speaking of paranoid and the universal solvent, H2O, otherwise more properly known as Di-Hydrogen Monoxide, you better read this first if you think it is safe!

http://www.dhmo.org/

LOL:laugh3: