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I need a lesson in suspension and axles

M

Mopar500

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Colorado
I have a 92 XJ, with the HO 4.0, of course.

90% of the time I just use it for commuting, but the other 10% I seem to be testing the limits of the stock componentry.

I recently visited the Michigan sand dunes. I was very impressed with how well my stock XJ handled everything. It gave me oodles of confidence. So much confidence that I may have bent some stuff in the front end.
Even though most of the time I am not doing anything too demanding, I would like to have the strength to do watever I want, when the feeling hits.

This is what I need some advice on:
1. I've been considering an OME suspension kit for a while, to help on and off road.
2. I also have been contemplaring switching out the axles, as everybody seems to think the Dana 30s and 35s are junk.

This is my motovation:
There have been some strange sounds and feelings happening before and after the Michigan trip. There has been a metalic popping sound when I start moving forward or back with the wheels turned. It sounded like a U-joint or a cv-joint to me. The brakes feel like the shoes or pads are loose because at the end of every stop there seems to be a little friction vibration.
After failing to figure it out myself (no big surprise there), I took it to the local Brakes Plus. They couldn't figure it out either. So I thought perhaps this is some unique Jeep thing that nobody else understands (ha-ha). I bit the bullet and took it to the local Jeep dealership. They certainly had ideas as to what was causing these noises and they wanted quite a bit of $$$ to fix them. That's when I started thinking it might be a better idea to just swap out the axles for some Dana 44s or something.

Here is what the dealership thought was wrong and what they wanted to fix it:
Front controll arm bent and bushings $704
Track bar has play in ball joint end $292
Alignment $80
Front knuckles worn where brake pads ride $1,142
Axle seal leaking $535
Knowing what is going on Priceless

What are the knuckles? (Yea, I'm a De-De-De)
Are control arms and track bars replaced in a lift kit like OME?
Are Dana 44s my best option if replacing the axles is the best bet?
Even though most people here don't like the ABS system, I do. Would I be able to retain it in an axle swap?

Thanks
 
wow... Dealerships are crazy!

The knukle is more or less the spindle kinda... Its the big chunk of metal the tie rods bolt to... the whole thing...

Most decent lift kits come with trackbars... tho find a good one to begin with, your track bar needs to be quality.

and I'd be no help on the axle questions.
 
Mopar500 said:
Here is what the dealership thought was wrong and what they wanted to fix it:
Front controll arm bent and bushings $704
Track bar has play in ball joint end $292
Alignment $80
Front knuckles worn where brake pads ride $1,142
Axle seal leaking $535
Knowing what is going on Priceless

What are the knuckles? (Yea, I'm a De-De-De)
Are control arms and track bars replaced in a lift kit like OME?
Are Dana 44s my best option if replacing the axles is the best bet?
Even though most people here don't like the ABS system, I do. Would I be able to retain it in an axle swap?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Step #1) Buy a manual for your heep and get busy reading.
Step #2) never go to the dealer for anything other than purchasing OEM Only parts.
Step #3) find some local wheelers that are knowledgeable and willing to help you learn.

A front control arm will set ya back about $15-$25 at your local u-pull-it and new TRW bushings are about $8-10 at the parts store.

New TRE will set ya back about $20.

Seals are about $40 per set.
Learning how to fix your own stuff....

Even more priceless!!

This forum is a great resource if you take the time to use the SEARCH function and learn from what others have already experienced.
 
For half of what the stealership was going to charge you you could pick up the RE (Rubicon Express) 4.5" Super-Flex Kit. It would replace most of what they said needed fixed.

I'm still a newb but from my reads unless you are going bigger than a 33" tire the D30 should be fine. You'll just want to pick up some shafts from the later models with the larger u-joints (297/760.) As for the rear you can pick up a XJ D44 for around $300 more or less to replace the crap D35.

I have a 92 as well and will be doing the above after I bolt on protection and good tow points.......and figure out how to $h!t money.
 
Don't worry about replacing the D30. It's a good enough axle. The D35 on the other hand you should look at replacing with an 8.25 or D44. Most lifts come with the control arms and bushings etc. I would suggest a long arm setup for duning. It gives better stability and smoother ride. Depending on your budget you can do some good with the stock parts. The stock upper control arms are very weak and should be removed and boxed in and reinforced (assuming it's not in your budget to buy a lift right away). Stock bushings will work just fine and can be had cheap. As mentioned before the steering parts are not too expensive. You might be happy with a budget boost which would set you back about $150.
 
Thanks!
I would really love to be able to do this work on my own. However, one (or both) of two things usually happen.
1. I realize I am in over my head after I have taken everything apart
2. I need a special tool of some sort that is not available anywhere.

Which means I am royally pissed and without a vehicle until I can figure out how to get mobile again. On top of that, my time is so limited that I need to schedule time to go to the bathroom!

I suppose the best deal is to try to enlist the help of somebody, locally, who knows his s**t, and is willing to guide an eager student with anger issues.
I guess I will explore the local clubs.
Unless any of you live near Parker CO???
 
All of the things that you are wanting to do can be acomplished with a basic set of quality tools, aside from ball joint removal/installation tool you might want a slide hammer(can be rented) and a breaker bar. I would definately consult the guys on this forum because it will save you time and money. The best tip I can give is to plan ahead and double check everything and just be prepared. Lots of beer always helps and it seems that there are alot of XJ guys in CO so you shouldn't have a problem. I hope you build your XJ into what you want, have fun and be safe!
 
Frank Z said:
Colorado Springs, so not too far.
Click to expand...

Don't let em lie to you it's like driving to the moon. Every time I go down there they look at me funny and say "you drove all the way here from DENVER!?"

There are lots of us in Colorado. I'd say just start picking projects that need to be done on your XJ and asking for advice or a hand if you think you'll need it. After you tackle a couple installs you'll probably pick up all the confidence you need to dive into some of the tougher stuff.
 
Mopar500 said:
I have a 92 XJ, with the HO 4.0, of course.

90% of the time I just use it for commuting, but the other 10% I seem to be testing the limits of the stock componentry.

I recently visited the Michigan sand dunes. I was very impressed with how well my stock XJ handled everything. It gave me oodles of confidence. So much confidence that I may have bent some stuff in the front end.
Even though most of the time I am not doing anything too demanding, I would like to have the strength to do watever I want, when the feeling hits.

This is what I need some advice on:
1. I've been considering an OME suspension kit for a while, to help on and off road.
2. I also have been contemplaring switching out the axles, as everybody seems to think the Dana 30s and 35s are junk.

This is my motovation:
There have been some strange sounds and feelings happening before and after the Michigan trip. There has been a metalic popping sound when I start moving forward or back with the wheels turned. It sounded like a U-joint or a cv-joint to me. The brakes feel like the shoes or pads are loose because at the end of every stop there seems to be a little friction vibration.
After failing to figure it out myself (no big surprise there), I took it to the local Brakes Plus. They couldn't figure it out either. So I thought perhaps this is some unique Jeep thing that nobody else understands (ha-ha). I bit the bullet and took it to the local Jeep dealership. They certainly had ideas as to what was causing these noises and they wanted quite a bit of $$$ to fix them. That's when I started thinking it might be a better idea to just swap out the axles for some Dana 44s or something.

Here is what the dealership thought was wrong and what they wanted to fix it:
Front controll arm bent and bushings $704
Track bar has play in ball joint end $292
Alignment $80
Front knuckles worn where brake pads ride $1,142
Axle seal leaking $535
Knowing what is going on Priceless

What are the knuckles? (Yea, I'm a De-De-De)
Are control arms and track bars replaced in a lift kit like OME?
Are Dana 44s my best option if replacing the axles is the best bet?
Even though most people here don't like the ABS system, I do. Would I be able to retain it in an axle swap?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You can do most of this even if you have never worked on your vehicles.
Control arms can be had dirt cheap at wrecking yards.
Good after market adjustable control arms are available from many sources. There are only 2 bolts holding each control arm onto your Cherokee.
The exact same thing is true of the track bar. Get an adjustable after market track bar, and its just two bolts.
I really doubt you need new knuckles, they are not a part that commonly wears out.
An axle seal is a very cheap part, but its a lot of labor and requires removing the carrier from the front axle. Make friend in a 4x4 club and have them help you. Or if its not leaking much, let it go for now.
Most front end issues end up being track bar, tie rod ends, and alignment. More rarely it's a bearing or ball joint.

And lastly, a quality lift kit will include new control arms, and a new track bar. A good steering upgrade kit will include new heavy duty tie rod, drag link and ends.
Just buy a Rubicon Express 5.5 and a currie hd steering upgrad and install it your self.....it would be a lot less than the $2700 the dealer quoted you.
Of course then you will need an SYE and rear drive shaft.... tires.... disco's.... oh well.
Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Mopar500 said:
I have a 92 XJ, with the HO 4.0, of course.

90% of the time I just use it for commuting, but the other 10% I seem to be testing the limits of the stock componentry.

I recently visited the Michigan sand dunes. I was very impressed with how well my stock XJ handled everything. It gave me oodles of confidence. So much confidence that I may have bent some stuff in the front end.
Even though most of the time I am not doing anything too demanding, I would like to have the strength to do watever I want, when the feeling hits.

This is what I need some advice on:
1. I've been considering an OME suspension kit for a while, to help on and off road.
Expensive but worth it, consider a RE BB also for $233
2. I also have been contemplaring switching out the axles, as everybody seems to think the Dana 30s and 35s are junk.
The 30 is fine, sure you have a D35 not a DC rear diff? there not great but not that bad. If your only going 2" lift you cant go to big on tires which kills them.

This is my motovation:
There have been some strange sounds and feelings happening before and after the Michigan trip. There has been a metalic popping sound when I start moving forward or back with the wheels turned. It sounded like a U-joint or a cv-joint to me. Front axle U joint probably.
The brakes feel like the shoes or pads are loose because at the end of every stop there seems to be a little friction vibration.
You could replace discs,drums,hardware, shoes and pads for under $300 probably.
After failing to figure it out myself (no big surprise there), I took it to the local Brakes Plus. They couldn't figure it out either. So I thought perhaps this is some unique Jeep thing that nobody else understands (ha-ha). I bit the bullet and took it to the local Jeep dealership. They certainly had ideas as to what was causing these noises and they wanted quite a bit of $$$ to fix them. That's when I started thinking it might be a better idea to just swap out the axles for some Dana 44s or something.

Here is what the dealership thought was wrong and what they wanted to fix it:
Front controll arm bent and bushings $704 You could probably find 1000 guys who would pay you to get one out of the garage pile of parts
Track bar has play in ball joint end $292 Common, $120
Alignment $80 Try $40 bucks
Front knuckles worn where brake pads ride $1,142 ? Huh, pads ride in the calipers.
Axle seal leaking $535 If your gonna do axle U joints nows the time for these also.
Knowing what is going on Priceless, you will learn.

What are the knuckles? (Yea, I'm a De-De-De) The part that pivots on the axle ends and wheels,brakes are hooked to.
Are control arms and track bars replaced in a lift kit like OME? No
Are Dana 44s my best option if replacing the axles is the best bet? Best? how much you wanna spend? D60`s
Even though most people here don't like the ABS system, I do. Would I be able to retain it in an axle swap? Dunno on that.

Dont forget beefing up one part of a system usually causes another part of it to fail, be reasonable in your use unless you want a new commuter that isnt broken every time out.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
IMO, with the OME suspension, the size tires that you will be able to run wont require you to upgrade axles.

OME is like 2" or so kit, so 31s would be idealish. i wheeled the piss out of my dana 35 with 33s locked for a year (had a 44 waiting to swap in) and it never broke. i expected it to grenade, but it never did.

people give the 35 shit, but its more than enough for a stock or slightly modified jeep. i would be very suprised if you broke a dana 35 with 31s. you would have to be doing something stupid. the only time i broke a shaft in my 35 is when i hydroplaned and jumped a curb snapping the shaft.

-Tim
 
I see a lot of people saying to go pull the control arms from the junkyard and buy new bushings. For about 15-20 for the uppers and 20-30 for the lowers you can buy brand new control arms with bushings.

The part numbers for the uppers are 52087710 and the lowers are 52001162. A google search for those numbers will turn up more than a few places that sell them.

The lowers come with both of the bushings and the uppers come with the frame side bushing, you'll still have to source the axle side bushing at your local parts store for about 10 bucks.
 
abzrocka said:
For half of what the stealership was going to charge you you could pick up the RE (Rubicon Express) 4.5" Super-Flex Kit.
Click to expand...

and have it installed if your nervous about DIY.

just my$.02 - if you've never done real wrenching B4, starting with suspension is a good way to learn. lots of big parts and big bolts. not much you can really hurt. it can be very frustrating at times, but what doesn't go well, usually makes you smarter in the long run. :D
 
im far from an expert on ABS, none of my jeeps have them, but i severly DOUBT you will be able to get abs working on a non-abs axle (ie the d44)

thanks for posting dealership prices, ima print those out to share with friends for a quick laugh
 
If you dont plan on running bigger than 31x10.5 maybe with a locker you might not need to get new axle. Besides axle swaps are so expensive, yeah the stealership will rip you off.
 
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