Turbos at the rear of the vehicle...

[Beej]

I'd never seen this before and I thought I'd pass it on as food for thought. These guys place the turbos at the rear of the vehicle on front-engined vehicles...

http://www.ststurbo.com/home

[streetpirate]

thats a great idea

"Remote mounted turbo systems run cooler because the exhaust coming in is cooler and the tubing coming from the turbo cools the boost charge before it gets to the intake manifold."

yeah, and the exhaust gasses coming in to the turbo being cooler is GREAT for power.

[BBeach]

Thats been around for a while, once saw it on two guys garage with a corvette. But id second streetpirate.

[Flash]

First off you would have to have full ext. that was not only air tight but air tight at Pressure.
compressor size turbine size would take some figuring out and in the end, at the ext manifold, would be more efficients.

DON'T get me wrong, I like the idea and for our XJ and are cramped eng compartment.........Might be worth looking into more.:passgas:

Flash.

[cbtu0914]

The effeciency of this system is very low due to the length of tubing req'd, also talk about some turbo lag, it's got to be in the 1-2 second region with the distances involved, there are some advantages such as a reduction in underhood temps and ease of install, but you would require such a small turbine wheel and housing in order to get any kind of response that you would be unable to run more than 4 or 5 psi out of the system Just my .02

[stupidweirdo]

All of the above, plus the fact that it would likely spent a lot of time covered in mud or underwater. Turbos do not like contaminants.

[Osmin C]

Thats been around for a while, once saw it on two guys garage with a corvette. But id second streetpirate.
I think I saw this as well but I think it was on a camaro.

[XJEEPER]

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/universal/S10.jpg

Can't wait to see the snorkle for this setup.............

Here's how they do it on the H2

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/h2/h2snorkel1.jpg (javascript:dolink(1111))


And here's the Tacoma setup........
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/tacoma/tacoma%20turbo2.jpg (javascript:dolink(247))


Getting warmer.....GM style
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/gm_suv/gm_suv_turbo.jpg (javascript:dolink(288))


I think Jon needs to prototype a MJ setup

[BBeach]

Well H2's almost never see a dirt trail let alone mud so they should be safe...at least with those tires.

[Alademuerte]

It's been around for a while, I know a couple guys with rearmount STS turbo's.

There good for street only applications (duh, mud in the turbo = less hp :D ), but it's a lot of piping and lag.

But the exhaust isnt dumping into the turbo, if that's what your trying to say Streetpirate. Maybe some people do, but most run the intake for the turbo off to the side or similar.

I cant find the video of my friends blazer that's got a rearmount, but here's some others.

7.96 seconds on a rearmount with stock frame and 10.5" tires?
http://www.thevettedoctors.com/videos/majorspray/VetteDoctorsmajorspray-7secwmv.wmv

Doing a wheelstand
http://www.thevettedoctors.com/videos/majorspray/VetteDoctorsmajorspray-wheelstand.wmv

http://www.thevettedoctors.com/images/2006%20ImCurred/boweryboy%20rear_turbo2.gif

[1bolt]

Turbo lag is a pseudo mythical thing from the 80's they use boost control and constantly pressurized pipes. Seriously in this day and age no one is going to market something that has "lag". Air besides being more compressable, is otherwise a lot like water... if you put your thumb over a hose and turn it off, when you turn it on do you need to wait for the water to travel 50 feet? Of course not, it comes out instantly (or is pushing against your thumb instantly). Think of the thumb in this analogy as boost control and you're all set.

[cbtu0914]

On the subject of lag, i was speaking from my experiences with turbo diesel pickups, (notably the famed Cummins) and there is definate boost response differences in intercooled and non-IC trucks all other things the same (the non-IC having quicker response, but the IC making higher power #'s and lower egt's) I have no experience with gas turbo engines so i have learned something new today about boost control. Thanks :)

[PornstaR]

Turbo lag is a pseudo mythical thing from the 80's they use boost control and constantly pressurized pipes. Seriously in this day and age no one is going to market something that has "lag". Air besides being more compressable, is otherwise a lot like water... if you put your thumb over a hose and turn it off, when you turn it on do you need to wait for the water to travel 50 feet? Of course not, it comes out instantly (or is pushing against your thumb instantly). Think of the thumb in this analogy as boost control and you're all set.

WOW!!! Where do you get your info from there pimp??? Pseudo mythical thing from the 80s??? Ha ha ha ha were not talking about if Boy George is straight here!! Constant pressurized pipes, yes due to legnth, but "not marketing something that has lag??" This is odd since about 85% of turbo cars on the road (not diesel) were not factory turbo, let alone a kit to be marketed...... but then again, what would I know about turbos since I have a 680 WHP.......... (yea you read it right) DA integra 1.8L, I know nothing about pushing 28lbs of boost and 1000cc injectors.:dunno: your analogies of boost controlers suck...... whats next??? Plumbing "T's" for wastegates??? or maybe you will skool us next on water injection................

:looser: dont get all butthurt, just gotta mess with ya since i know a thing about a thing about somthing called a turbo...... its just NAXJA not Honda-tech.

But as for the "tail-pipe" turbo set ups, I think they are totally impractical because of the placement, turbo spool up times vs the amout of air moved to make boost......... (and yes this is called lag). Mainly for looks and for "VIAGRA" junkies. No ones gonna toss their turbo under their rig....... only those junk Garretts :looser:

[BlueCuda]

I have seen a few in action, they work but not all that well IMO.

I have driven an 01 Chevy 1500 with an STS and was not really impressed. It ran pretty good for a truck and all but still not super quick. It moved pretty good but not good for something that has a turbo on it lol. A friend of mine has a similiar truck with 4.10s, exhaust work, and programing and of course NO turbo. I think his NA truck would be a good run with the STS truck. Which sucks since he has about $2gs less in his mods.

HEAT is a big factor in spooling a turbo up. The combination of that plus the insane length of intake plumbing makes for poorly functioning turbo system.

[1bolt]

but then again, what would I know about turbos since I have a 680 WHP.......... (yea you read it right) DA integra 1.8L,

:rolleyes: Why is it that every kid with a Honda or Integra thinks his 160 (flywheel) horse 1.8L four banger VTEC with limp wristed 120-ish foot pounds sputtering like a weed eater going down the road will dyno 500 HP the second he slaps a T3 on it? Your post sounds like you typed out the mod list of some tuner mag cover car, just a little too much name dropping not to suspect that you're trying to BS your way through.

As a side note I've watched so many "500 HP" hondas pull 14 second ET's while getting bitch slapped by normally aspirated V8's puting down honest 300-350 RWHP that as far as I'm concerned any HP claim from a "tuner" is immediately to be dismissed as fantasy.

But hey YOU I believe, yeah...:worship:

BTW I own a teg, they are painfully slow. I've had lawn mowers that had more useable torque.

[Beej]

Boy, a thread can descend here quickly...

:D


I posted this because it might present a viable alternative for some looking for other ways to do things. Is it the absolute best system in the world? Probably not. Will it produce more power than a stock XJ? Uhh, yeah. Of course its best suited to a street application, this is the Street & Performance Forum. Sure it produces low boost, etcetera etcetera, its all right on their page...
:compwork:


PornstaR, you've laid it out, now show us the goods. I want very badly to believe and I will kiss your ass if its the truth, however as Horatio Caine once said: "Trust...but verify." Pics or links, please? :D

1bolt, I don't think lag is a pseudo-mythical thing either. I do recognize that its a misunderstood concept, but that doesn't make it bullsh...

From the wikipedia turbocharger page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_lag#Lag

[JJacobs]

XJEEPER, after all this work lately the old MJ's not changing much for a while. I've always wanted to boost something, though.

There's a GTO (new) running around here with the STS rear mount turbo kit. I was loafing down the highway one day and he went to pass somebody on the right, just up front of me 100 feet or so- typical rolling roadblock. :rolleyes: He was already doing about 60, and that thing just torqued- squatted- disappeared. I found out later what it was.

Lag? Unboosted has infinite lag.

[vetteboy]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Chris Lasater's / Performance Metal Works' XJ. He runs a remote turbo in the rear.

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/1448/indy0510103fh.png

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/4742/indy0515turbo4so.png

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9036/dscf02618jt.jpg

He reports a 50-75 ft-lb increase at just a few PSI of boost.

[PornstaR]

Not really sure what kinds of pics you would like to see "Beej" but here are a couple when this set up was in the black DA (swapped chassis due to not being able to pull out the clutch assembly to swap from cable to hydro. Had to do this due to the amount of strain put on the cable trans but was held back by the cage being built with no windsheild in car and not wanting to cut and re-weld the cage. Swapped to silver chassis and re caged... blah blah)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pf79afa1df0110a6bc5fd2b583531a9d8/f9a57ac9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p3c8b8306d7791b83d4d6addea8f62f8f/f9a57ad5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p92ff24feae871d50d49a8308c844e7c4/f9a57adc.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p04b5aec7116dbbd9696a4fd6f2996d5c/f9a57af9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p40902ccdc098839126b134c1c24d1b13/f9a57dbb.jpg

I wrote a big tech list of things on this rig but gave me an error when I posted it and lost the whole post. Anywho working on the tune down at 500whp as of now due to the Hondata system (awaiting FAST system) and a couple of other little gremlins...... hehe.

[98XJSport]

Rear mounted turbo is like the heaters in the original rear engine beatles. It works, just not as well as front mount would.

[PstrKd4BrthCntrll]

I've seen a turbo kit for the wrangler somewhere. They have the turbo in the general area of the a/c compressor and dist. The exhaust comes down from the factory exhaust manifold, wraps underneath where the trans and engine mate to eachother, and then heads up towards the turbo on the passenger side of the engine. Theres is a decent amount of room on the pass. side once the a/c compressor and lines are taken out. Not as much lags as mounted in the rear, higher up then mounting it underneath,... Ive entertained the idea of putting a turbo in my 4.0L Grand cherokee since my a/c doesnt work anyways but I dont know much about all the stuff[installing and tuning a aftermarket fuel controller etc....] that goes into doing a custom setup

[Beej]

Not really sure what kinds of pics you would like to see "Beej" but here are a couple when this set up was in the black DA (swapped chassis due to not being able to pull out the clutch assembly to swap from cable to hydro. Had to do this due to the amount of strain put on the cable trans but was held back by the cage being built with no windsheild in car and not wanting to cut and re-weld the cage. Swapped to silver chassis and re caged... blah blah)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pf79afa1df0110a6bc5fd2b583531a9d8/f9a57ac9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p3c8b8306d7791b83d4d6addea8f62f8f/f9a57ad5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p92ff24feae871d50d49a8308c844e7c4/f9a57adc.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p04b5aec7116dbbd9696a4fd6f2996d5c/f9a57af9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p40902ccdc098839126b134c1c24d1b13/f9a57dbb.jpg

I wrote a big tech list of things on this rig but gave me an error when I posted it and lost the whole post. Anywho working on the tune down at 500whp as of now due to the Hondata system (awaiting FAST system) and a couple of other little gremlins...... hehe.

That's the ticket...

Nice little toy...

:cheers:

[avnsteve]

any improvement mod that removes my A/C is no improvement, I'm sure many others from TX would agree. that notwithstanding, somebody, somewhere had to be the first, after that, comes the improvements on a good idea, so, the technology applied to the remote turbos only gets better, what's the problem?

[BBeach]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger#implementations

According to Horsepower TV (2/3/2007), you can expect a loss of 1 psi using a rear mount turbo, because of loss due to the long pipe routings, and also about a 100°F drop in intake air temperature.

[Beej]

Using an intercooler can also drop the pressure between 1-3psi depending on the setup. Its another fact that must be considered when building a system...

[1bolt]

Boy, a thread can descend here quickly...

I posted this because it might present a viable alternative for some looking for other ways to do things. Is it the absolute best system in the world? Probably not.
I agree. The idea that it's junk or a waste of time because it's going to have 2 seconds of lag is what I have an issue with.


1bolt, I don't think lag is a pseudo-mythical thing either. I do recognize that its a misunderstood concept, but that doesn't make it bullsh...

I didn't say it was BS, at least I don't think I did, too lazy to back up a page. I just think that it is blown out of proportion. And seems to be the first thing mentioned in any argument about Turbo's, despite the fact that it's mainly a thing of the past.

Pr0nstar: I don't see your Dyno sheet with 680 peak HP, curious that. I do see a garden variety 1.8L VTEC with a Turbo Manifold, one small turbo, no intercooler, and a few shiny red billit anodized AEM bits (BOV, fuel pump and filter) and billit adjustable cam timing gears... Oh and the pretty Moroso oil catch cannister. What your PCV system has to do with the turbo I'm not sure... Are you blowing so much boost past your rings that you need it?

Nothing on that car suggests to me that you have 680 wheel horsepower, at a glance it looks like any other "500 HP" Honda I've ever seen, that is... 200 RWHP i.e. 50 to 75HP over stock being generous.

[BBeach]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p3c8b8306d7791b83d4d6addea8f62f8f/f9a57ad5.jpg

Your turbo ate that rag!

[PornstaR]

Pr0nstar: I don't see your Dyno sheet with 680 peak HP, curious that. I do see a garden variety 1.8L VTEC with a Turbo Manifold, one small turbo, no intercooler, and a few shiny red billit anodized AEM bits (BOV, fuel pump and filter) and billit adjustable cam timing gears... Oh and the pretty Moroso oil catch cannister. What your PCV system has to do with the turbo I'm not sure... Are you blowing so much boost past your rings that you need it?

Nothing on that car suggests to me that you have 680 wheel horsepower, at a glance it looks like any other "500 HP" Honda I've ever seen, that is... 200 RWHP i.e. 50 to 75HP over stock being generous.
Hmmm odd you "seem" to know something about B series motors you would have noticed its actually a JDM 1.6L block decked and sleeved out to a 1.8L (couldnt find a decently priced 1.8 block at the time of the build) By Golden Eagle. All bottom end work was done by them @ a cost of 2 engines later. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=861840 This just gives you a small insight and reasoning behind the blown motor. The tuner for this rig was Ground Zero in Portland Or. The pics I posted were the few that I had posted on my imagestation and due to my personal computer getting a virus I have limited pics...... Let alone the whole turbo set up that is on it in those pics is not even on the rig now but the turbo was only there for mock-up. It was actually the turbo for my street driven 2000 civic (no D series there, but another OBD1 b18. The mani there is a Lovefab ram style and now has a Full Race set up now...... and not really sure why im telling you any of this, LOL. But your typo of 200 Rwhp makes me smile a bit. But to degrade my car to 50 to 75 added, hell you could get that from simply installing a Zex dry kit.:confused1 Guessing dyno sheets are the proof to you?? Odd since you can find sheets all over the place. I will end this note with

"Take it how you want, its in my garage and if this rain stops for at least a Wednesday then once again it will be up at PIR ( formerly known as SIR), come on down and feel free to check out all the my shinney, dodads." :kissyou:

*back to your regularly tuned program*

[fitbmxseries1]

Well this is just what every one is saying but is arguing to much to actualy get a smooth point across. Regular turbo systems work better. Remote mount work but not as good. if your doing any off road or anything wet, you could easily damange your remote mounted turbo.

Remote mount should be used in aplications where you have absolutely no underhood clearance. And in my opionion they are the same amount work to install. I helped install one on a Trans am a few months back it was actually a smaller turbo then what you would use on a normal turbo install not sure of the reason for that but im guessing the spooling time...??? also the car almost felt supercharged there was literaly no lag involved so i guess the right set up can work good, but in the end it cost more then a regular turbo set up. sts is expensive!

[1bolt]

But your typo of 200 Rwhp makes me smile a bit. But to degrade my car to 50 to 75 added, hell you could get that from simply installing a Zex dry kit.

Yeah not sure what I was thinking, either I slipped for a sec and thought they were real sports cars with rear wheel drive, or I accidentally used a familiar acronym wrong :) Anyway you don't have to prove anything but if you don't like backing it up you probably shouldn't make it so far fetched. But then maybe I'm being too skeptical.

I guess it's not your fault that 500 HP claims from ricers seem to be about as insubstantial as the stickers on their windows.

[fitbmxseries1]

not sure if im right about this but a turbo works better when it is hot right? having it farther away from the header will cool it more, and having to pump oil that far from the engine will cool it down more, i think that will add to the loss of boost... ????

[whompinxj]

definitely

[Beej]

Yes, many factors contribute to loss of boost when comparing this system to the exact same turbo set up in an in-bay system, however one can easily overcome this very minor problem by selecting an appropriately-sized turbo...

[Skits]

I've read a couple of books on turbocharger systems, and helped a friend who know a LOT about them install a home-brewed system on his Kawasaki.

Will a turbo mounted 10 feet away work? Define 'work'? Yes, it will create boost and give you more power. It will also lose a huge amount of efficiency and greatly increase lag. Good turbo systems are designed to keep as much heat as possible in the exhaust up to the turbo (heat is energy), and the intake tracts are kept as short as possible because you have to pressurize all that tubing (and intercooler, and manifold).

If you're going to shell out money for a turbo ($$$$$), why not design it right the first time...and if someone can manage to stuff a huge assed turbo in the engine bay of a Civic, or twin turbos under the hood of an RX-7, then God knows we have plenty of room under the hood of an XJ.

[WheelinJR]

...and if someone can manage to stuff a huge assed turbo in the engine bay of a Civic, or twin turbos under the hood of an RX-7, then God knows we have plenty of room under the hood of an XJ.

amen to that!

and on the note of huge ass turbo in a civic, my buddy mike's Sport FWD drag car in process....

http://a6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/55/l_9d2321c536378f319699c13dd0bb456d.jpg

http://a925.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/31/l_3cb8b43beae2327e0a0b1d663918f2a4.jpg

[kf_chris]

there are productive rear turbo kits out there for mustangs, camaros, and corvettes. it's all about the spooling of the turbo I think, but I haven't had much experience with them other than euro TD's

[JKMotorsports]

doublepost, opps

[JKMotorsports]

I've played around with the turbo thought too. Just like PornsaR I have a built (not broken in or driven yet) Civic, Shooting for 450whp with the nitrous on, and have many turbos from anything like a Chrysler lebaron Tdo4 to a custom built Garret t3/t04b built by me and balanced locally.

People said to try the rear mount, but I don't likie it. To much heat energy loss, lag, yadda. The other problem is the slow moving air across the intercooler, but Liquid to Air or water injection could fix that.

I say the problem as true reliable management. I'm used to Standalone (I run Chrome, and getting neptune next season, the honda guys will know it)

[wolfpackjeeper]

I am getting bored after getting my stroker built and running correctly after the first try. So now I am going to grab a turbo from the junkyard and figure out how to slam it into a kit on the cherokee. I looked at sts kits for my camaro. running 5 psi of boost it reportedly would yield around 500hp. 8psi would get you 620 or so. I think I am gonna eventually go twin turbo on it with flipped 6 liter manifolds.

My roomate and a friend are ricers. They will say something like "Hey I got my 75 shot on", or hey I got my new blow off valve with the fancy shiny things on"

My usual reply is I just have an LS1. Then I walk on them. I have seen a honda that could beat me in the quarter. Guy was really proud. My reply was "cool, you spent 8k and beat a stock v8, by a pinch" I can drop that much in the engine bay and walk on anybody....

[1bolt]

The whole tuner import thing is cool I got no problem with them I've owned some myself, and I think hot rodding is cool no matter WHAT it is you're hot rodding..

I just wish tuners would stop throwing numbers out there based on cumulative assumption (that is K&N filter = up to 15hp, aftermarket cam claims up to 20 hp so add 15 + 20. Put in a AEM cold air kit that claims up to 15 so it's now 15 + 20 + 15, add a T3 that says "300hp max" on Ebay so that's another +300 and so on and so on (never mind that even if you got the max from everything they wouldn't add up perfectly cumulative)

The real proof is at the strip... there are extremely few Imports running times that jibe with numbers of claims one hears of 500hp.

Don't even go to the strip, just watch Pinks All out, the number of 500hp honda's in the parking lot do not anywhere near jibe with the amount of them that run low enough times to make it on the show. And they WANT imports. :passgas:

They nearly crapped themselves when they had their first money race won by an import, a Honda CRX that the owner claims was 750hp "at the wheels" running high 10 second quarters? So did he have another whole CRX stuck in his tire tread that he didn't know was there? Maybe an Integra lost in his trunk?

It was the first Pinks "all out" (that I've seen anyway) that had a field slower than 10.5's and no coincidence it was the first time a "750hp" Import made a showing.

I think if they did some shows with 12 to 13 second fields they would get more "500 hp" imports... you know the highly moded 300hp "500 at the mouth" variety. :scared:

Anyway sorry for the :yap:

[wolfpackjeeper]

My roomate is convinced that his eclipse with nitrous can beat my camaro. I keep trying to tell him that a 75 shot on a crappy motor will not beat a car making 332/350 at the wheels. Silly ricer wants to go but can't seem to make it to the track with me....

[BBeach]

My roomate is convinced that his eclipse with nitrous can beat my camaro. I keep trying to tell him that a 75 shot on a crappy motor will not beat a car making 332/350 at the wheels. Silly ricer wants to go but can't seem to make it to the track with me....
Is it a GSX or GS-T? I rode in my friends before, if I hadn't stopped modding my jeep (performance wise) before, I deff would have after getting a ride in there. 400hp sure feels good, and breaking the tires out in 3rd at 50mph is weird (fwd gs-t....) If he's got a turbo dsm, dont laugh, those things can make some real power.

[BBeach]

And something about the turbo so far away makes me think of all of the heat loss before the turbo. It would seem like you would have a decent amount of loss of ability to do work (i.e. building boost).

[wolfpackjeeper]

No, his car is a naturally aspirated pos 6cyl. and the driver mod on it sucks too, douche went through a clutch in 14k miles.

The STS kits for camaros and GTOs work great. they dont make an insane amount of boost, only about 5-8psi, but it works.

a good in bay turbo or twin turbo kit will run you a lot. The sts kit offers a bolt on kit that will offer pretty good horsepower gains without a lot of the work.

I am building a turbo kit for my cherokee, and I am gonna do it with junkyard parts. I plan on mounting it below the manifold, or under the crossmember where my cat is supposed to go. I just want to try it.

Too many perfectionist, not enough realists. Good enough is good enough, and finished beats perfect every time.

[JJacobs]

Too many perfectionist, not enough realists. Good enough is good enough, and finished beats perfect every time.

Quote of the year!

[WPG98XJ]

I had thought many nights about this... in the end, a turbo project will have to wait....especially a rear mount. Not a chance I'm running that crap on my xj in the mud/rivers/ect I run in.

In the end, s/c going on...

[jforse]

Is it a GSX or GS-T? I rode in my friends before, if I hadn't stopped modding my jeep (performance wise) before, I deff would have after getting a ride in there. 400hp sure feels good, and breaking the tires out in 3rd at 50mph is weird (fwd gs-t....) If he's got a turbo dsm, dont laugh, those things can make some real power.


Myold GSX:
Ran 11.9@118
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/cd74.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/9887.jpg

This one:
11.3@125
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/MiscPictures020.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/MiscPictures025.jpg

Not all imports are dogs.

[1bolt]

There's more than a few unfinished turbo Cherokees around here,
I wont name any names :) but I agree with you finished is better than perfection and a rear mount turbo produces way more boost than an engine bay mounted turbo that never got installed.

[BBeach]

Myold GSX:
Ran 11.9@118
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/cd74.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/jforse/9887.jpg

Not all imports are dogs.
Thats things beautiful. I'm looking into getting one someday, GT35 and call it a day. My friend has his big16g maxed out. Fun fast car, but still FWD (he had a GS-T). His friend with the same mods is low13's/high 12's.

My other friend's got one of the 3g eclipses. Its not bad at 200hp, and with a 75 shot it still wont take that camaro. They make a blower and a turbo for it, but again, that one is fwd too.

[wolfpackjeeper]

There's more than a few unfinished turbo Cherokees around here,
I wont name any names :) but I agree with you finished is better than perfection and a rear mount turbo produces way more boost than an engine bay mounted turbo that never got installed.

seriously, there are way too many people that spend entirely too much time planning a build and getting everything perfect. I am sorry, but I consider that ridiculous, this is a hobby people get out there and bend some tin. I spent less time planning my stroker than I did building it. Hell I probably waited longer on parts than I did planning it. Runs like a champ and fired on the first try.

Dont get me wrong, I make sure that everything works, but getting nitpicky about 2 psi of boost, or upset about a little lag, is silly. Worried about the lag? Get a smaller turbine. Want more boost? Put the sucker in the bay.

[sharq]

Thats been around for a while, once saw it on two guys garage with a corvette. But id second streetpirate.

i dont think that was two guys garage. it was on horsepower tv on spike.

[srimes]

seriously, there are way too many people that spend entirely too much time planning a build and getting everything perfect. I am sorry, but I consider that ridiculous, this is a hobby people get out there and bend some tin. I spent less time planning my stroker than I did building it. Hell I probably waited longer on parts than I did planning it. Runs like a champ and fired on the first try.

Dont get me wrong, I make sure that everything works, but getting nitpicky about 2 psi of boost, or upset about a little lag, is silly. Worried about the lag? Get a smaller turbine. Want more boost? Put the sucker in the bay.

Agreed, but I'd change the answer for "want more boost?" to "Get a larger turbine."

I really don't think that mounting the turbo far from the engine will limit how much boost can be made. Yes, energy is lost with a long exhaust run, but you should still be coming out ahead of a belt-driven supercharger. A smaller turbine and a larger compressor can make more boost than the engine can handle.

But it would be a little less power than a front mounted turbo, even with the same amount of boost. This is because the extra piping losses will be powered by increased backpressure, which means less power production for the same boost pressure. But it still isn't anything to cry about on a street driven jeep.

[wolfpackjeeper]

yea, but if I had posted that you should get a bigger turbine, people would have bitched about turbo lag....

I agree, you dont lose a whole lot, but the sts kit only gives ratings for my car to 8 psi nothing over, if I wanted to run with more tan that I would just fork up and put them in the engine bay anyway. I think it is a great idea for a cheeper solution

[srimes]

yea, but if I had posted that you should get a bigger turbine, people would have bitched about turbo lag....

I agree, you dont lose a whole lot, but the sts kit only gives ratings for my car to 8 psi nothing over, if I wanted to run with more tan that I would just fork up and put them in the engine bay anyway. I think it is a great idea for a cheeper solution

After looking at their site, it's clear that their focus is in adding turbos to basically stock NA engines. Not many would handle more than 8 psi reliably. And once an engine is opened up to handle more boost and make more power there are too many options to make simple, across the board predictions meaningful.

I'm inclinded to think that a rear-mounted turbo is a viable street-car option, and will provide for plenty of room to grow. I like the simplicity of it, as the plumbing and heat controll issues are the major fabracation challenges of a turbo install.

But I don't think hot turbos like to be dipped in water, so I don't know how it'd work on a Jeep.

[fitbmxseries1]

i saw on the jeepforums.com some guy mounted his turbo in the passenger seat (wanst on a jeep though) half way remote? ha, hopfully that car isnt driven in the rain considering theres a huge hole in the floor. also the tail pipe comes out the back door.....

[KinesthesiaDrums]

hate the bring up to the whole existence of lag issue again, but i just thought this was an amazing way to..well, i guess "show" lag, or compare lag.

i am a huge Mitsu. Evolution fanatic...can tell you anything you want to know about it, haha. i was planning on buying an EVO IX, but...even though i can more than afford the payments, i don't have enough credit built for the loan yet.....so i bought a '99 Limited, my second XJ, haha.
(for all you rice-haters and non-believers...just check that car out... AWD, 290 bhp, 285lps torque, 2.0 Liter 4cyl, i think 12-15 psi- stock)

anyways, i was watching a youtube video that was a recorded British car show, Top Gear, basically a show where they feature a car and pretty much evaluate its claimed performanace/ability. this episode was on all the available Evo VIII trims over in the UK. FQ-400, FQ-350, FQ-300, MR, GTR (the numbers on the FQ trims are factory bhp...and it's documented, proven, and 100% legit)
after all the fun stuff of showing off what most enthusiasts already know about it, and rivaling it with a brand new Lambo Murcielago driven by a professional driver....it was the turbo lag section.

their test was putting the FQ-400 side by side to a typical "soccer-mom" station wagon, 1.6 liter Fiat.
going down an airstrip, rolling start in top gear at 30 mph. then they just stomp the skinny pedal and see who wins.
needless to say, the soccer-mom destroyed the Evo, lol.
by the time the Evo overcomes the lag, they are at the end of the 1.7 mile runway.
so...lag is defiantly not a thing of the past...this was a 2005 world class rally car....the only rival to the Subaru.

the vid-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cvFl7IQKe4

this vid just gets me tingly every time i see it, i found it again looking for the lag video
Evo IX MR with anti-lag exhaust launching on a dyno-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deFECChMDXI&NR=1


BUT.....in the defense of both the Evo and the XJ....the Evo motor was designed to run off boost...nothing more. whereas the XJ was designed to run off vacuum and displacement.....but we're wanting to ADD boost to the already decent displacement (especially if you're running a stroker)....
so i don't figure lag on and XJ is going to be as bad as you see in that video....
then again, this is a rear-mounted turbo thread.....and i pretty much agree with everything thats been said...and we're all just repeating ourselves now, haha.
the first rear mount i saw was at a car show, or pictures from a show, and it was on a Chevy compact car...i want to say a Cobalt? but it was yellow...and i couldn't tell you anything more...that was a good long time ago.
and since then, i've seen some shows with supercharged Cobalts that tore the shyt out of the track. (i hate drag racing, i'm all about the turns), so if you could fit a huge twin-screw SC under that hood, why the hell would you waste the time, money and resources for a rear turbo setup...it was a really small turbo too, lol. then again, it might not have been the same car *shrugs*

if there was some way to have an anti-lag rear mounted turbo setup....shyt...haha. but then we'd still have the lack of heat, pressure attenuation over distance, and it would still be street-only.

[wolfpackjeeper]

ok, issues with above:

I dont like superchargers, think a turbo is a better setup.

The top gear test is rediculous, put it it top gear at thirty and floor it??? of course the non turbo would win, the whole point of a manual is to be able to pick the gear that puts you in your powerband, if that was all they did to test it then they are fools,

[KinesthesiaDrums]

yea...i agree. the non turbo would always win in any pair, both of those cars were manuals in top gear tho....
but still...a motor designed to run at high rpms with boost will have very little bottom end power....for the obvious reasons of how turbos even work.
i think that "test" is only good when comparing two turbo vehicles or 2 naturally aspirated vehicles....
*shrugs*
wuteva, haha.

[BBeach]

their test was putting the FQ-400 side by side to a typical "soccer-mom" station wagon, 1.6 liter Fiat.
going down an airstrip, rolling start in top gear at 30 mph. then they just stomp the skinny pedal and see who wins.
needless to say, the soccer-mom destroyed the Evo, lol.
by the time the Evo overcomes the lag, they are at the end of the 1.7 mile runway.
so...lag is defiantly not a thing of the past...this was a 2005 world class rally car....the only rival to the Subaru.
I haven't watched the vid yet, but you're probably mistinterpreting boosth threshold with turbo lag. If a car hasn't reached a specified rpm in which it has enough flow out the exhaust to spin the turbo sufficiently to build boost, then it's under that boost threshold.

[BBeach]

I actually just found a good ole wiki article....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger#Boost_Threshold
Should bring it right to ya.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Thats what I was saying, if he was only doing 30 and stuffed it into 6th gear and floored it, it would take him a week to get to boost threshold. I am not as sure about a roll race in an evo, but I know in my Camaro I would stuff that sucker into second, nothing higher. The show is great, but while the dudes that run it know a lot, they are still bumbling idoits sometimes. It is kinda like watching Mythbusters for the scientific procedure...

[BBeach]

Dont forget automatics will downshift and if its a standard, you can easily put it into 2nd and you'll have plenty of go.

[KinesthesiaDrums]

ahhh....i learned something new =D
kinda.... i knew what they were trying to say, or talk about which is just obvious in any turbo setup...the threshold.
but in the vid he keeps calling it "turbo lag"

oddly enough, in all my past years discussing, reading, learning, etc. over on the EvoM forums i would have at least run across that term once or twice....
haha, oh well...

*shrugs*

but i also agree with how they can most definately be idiots at times....

[WPG98XJ]

The only problem with both turbos and superchargers is everyone wants one but not many are willing to do it.

On that note, my supercharger finally landed in Canada from LA. should have it by Wed suckas... I'm hoping.

[chance575]

I just saw this thread and decided to reply. Here is my 05 gto with a sts turbo on it. Yes it has a bit of lag just like every other turbo car. I can punch it at 55 mph and get sideways. Some say lag is bad but trying to get traction with over 500 rwhp on a 275 just doesnt work too well. A 275 is the widest tire you can put on a gto and i have tried drag radials which did no good either.

This style of system would only be good for a street xj. Too much stuff hanging to low and if skid plates were made i believe heat then would become a issue.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/chance575/IMG_0418.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/chance575/11-06010.jpg

[gradon]

That's a bad@$$ GTO(besides it being red). Them clamps look awfully close to the tire. If you could make that a widebody by having the rear fender flares stretched out a bit, you could stuff some 305/315s on there.

[KinesthesiaDrums]

That's a bad@$$ GTO(besides it being red). Them clamps look awfully close to the tire. If you could make that a widebody by having the rear fender flares stretched out a bit, you could stuff some 305/315s on there.

big x2 on all of that, haha

[wolfpackjeeper]

dude that sucks on the 275's only. I plan on massaging my inner fenders and stuffing some 315's on my camaro

[chance575]

I really dont like the widebody kits, they all look like slapped on fender flares. That clamp is really not that close to the tire, just the picture angle. I fab'ed up a splash shield around it now too. Plus the whole exhaust is wraped from the manifolds back to hold more heat in.

[Higgs98XJ]

thats f'ing sick. i dont mind the red. nice job

[chance575]

pic just right off the dyno

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/chance575/Grays20Power20Tour20200720Part20II2.jpg