Sierra Trails and Rock Stacking

[Capt. Nemo]

I'm NOT talking about this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/muddyjeep1/IMG_2708.jpg

For the most part, the trails that snake through the Sierras have already been "groomed" with strategically placed rocks so that the averagely equipped rig can make it over an obstacle without much effort. Spend any amount of time on the OHV trails in the Sierra Nevadas, however, and eventually you'll have to stack a rock in order to get over an obstacle. It may be for you, it may be for a buddy, it may be for a complete stranger... either way there are some common guidelines that should be kept in mind when stacking rocks:

1) Only stack rocks if you intend to remove them when the vehicle is over the obstacle.

2) Only stack rocks that you can physically place and remove.

3) Only stack one or two at a time until the vehicle is able to move over the obstacle.

4) DO NOT stack in areas or lines that are considered "optional", "driver's choice", or have easier [legal] bypasses around them. If you can't make it without stacking, you don't belong there in the first place.

5) Did I mention, REMOVE ANY ROCK THAT IS STACKED!!!

What brought this thread on was my experience on the Barrett Lake Jeep Trail this past weekend. I was absolutely floored to see a challenging optional area completely paved overnight - literally. I didn't have the hour or so of time to un-stack all of the rocks, unfortunately. In addition, I observed two guys roll an Igloo cooler sized rock into an optional area, making the line over challenge not a challenge at all. I hollered at the guys to remove the rock (which they couldn't budge after they rolled it down hill), but they just left it.

Here are some pictures:

BEFORE. Notice the rock wall on the left side of the picture, and the large rock in the center of the picture as my buddy takes the line of this optional obstacle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/muddyjeep1/DSCF0819.jpg

AFTER. This is the same obstacle 24 hours later. Notice all the rocks between the wall and the large rock. It looks like a dump truck unloaded right there. The challenge is now almost no challenge at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/muddyjeep1/DSCF0850.jpg

If you have to stack, REMOVE the rocks when you are done. If you can't make an optional challenge, LEAVE IT ALONE and go around.

[Ben H]

What a shame.

[SharkXJ]

Cap - what a great post.

The last part of Slick Rock was completely stacked much the same way you pointed out above. I don't know who did it but they sure did put a lot of rocks in the hole.

[EricsXJ]

Cap - what a great post.

The last part of Slick Rock was completely stacked much the same way you pointed out above. I don't know who did it but they sure did put a lot of rocks in the hole.
We were up there on July 14th and watched a Poker Run come through. They had the last section paved which made it way too easy. That is fine if they choose to do that for their event but what irked me is when they were finished everyone just dispersed and nobody unstacked the rocks. Here was the event that did it. http://www.hstar.net/ccsar/slick_rock_form.pdf


Also we did Strawberry Creek the same weekend, and the Painted Rock obstacle is not much of an obstacle anymore. Those that are familiar with it will remember a big slab tilted to the side that slides you into Painted Rock... Well that slab has been moved about 4 feet forward and is not at an angle. I belive this was done intentionally and would have required a dozer. Possibly done due to damage to the side of the trail (much like what was happening on GateKeeper) People were tearing big rocks out of the side embankment to use for stacking.

[Capt. Nemo]

This past weekend, our group ran Slickrock, Deer Valley, Strawberry Pass, and finished on Barrett. As mentioned, some sections were so stacked that the challenges were not challenges any more. After we got out of Strawberry, we almost started arguing about exactly where the "painted rock" section was since there was nothing obvious to us.

[DSXJ]

I agree there is a general lack of etiquette to leave the trail as it was found. There have been too many sections of trails in this region that have been stacked and left that way. There is a whole range of different rigs that run these trails. Some very capable and some less so but the trail is for everyone. If a rig needs to stack then yeah stack no sense in thrashing the rig or the trail over it but put it back so challenges are there for the next driver to overcome.

[XJ_ranger]

I agree Eric...

though there is a notion that sometimes, leaving a trail stacked is the right thing to do...

I was on Sledgehammer last weekend, and Ron was in front of me in the buggy, and was having issues at the plaque, and we stacked a little - the rain had washed all the rocks outta the undercut, and made a huge hole on the other side as well...

we left the trail stacked - it is still an obsticle, but its now passable, where before - it wasnt...

we figured it would have taken 42's to make that as it was when we got there... and if someone is on Sledge on 42's or bigger, and complaining about the stackedness of the trail, they need to go another few canyons over to Jack and Bender alley anyhow...

so, maybe not in this case, but sometimes it might make more sense to wonder why you 'needed' 37's to run strawberry and realize when trail rideing, that sometimes the challenge you remember when you were open/open on 31's, isnt going to be there with an atlas, 37's, lockers, and beadlocks...


kinda make sense? maybe?

[Capt. Nemo]

...so, maybe not in this case, but sometimes it might make more sense to wonder why you 'needed' 37's to run strawberry and realize when trail rideing, that sometimes the challenge you remember when you were open/open on 31's, isnt going to be there with an atlas, 37's, lockers, and beadlocks...


kinda make sense? maybe?

Totally makes sense. I guess my main point was that the stacking was most noticeable on optional lines. What you're describing seems to be the only line where you guys stacked and left it. I have stacked and left rocks at the bottom of ledges where the dirt was being dug out deeper and deeper - there was no other alternative.

[Zebaru]

4) DO NOT stack in areas or lines that are considered "optional", "driver's choice", or have easier [legal] bypasses around them. If you can't make it without stacking, you don't belong there in the first place.

... If you can't make an optional challenge, LEAVE IT ALONE and go around.

Sometimes, you take an optional line because you think you can make it, at things go horribly awry. This was the first bypass area at Barrett...

http://www.ericsxj.com/barrett/2851.jpg

http://www.ericsxj.com/barrett/2853.jpg

That big rock shifted a couple of feet while I was on it, and completely killed my line and any chance of getting through without stacking - especially after I wiped out my driveshaft. We stacked like crazy to get my rig up to a reasonable level so we could get it off the rocks. In fact, we had to lift it up a good bit and stack rock just to get to a point where I could get under there and pull the driveshaft.

We also spent alot of time unstacking those rocks. I can't say that it was left in the same condition as when I arrived - especially since I shifted that huge rock so much, but we did our best to undo what we had done.

I don't think that I was in the wrong trying that line, even though I didn't make it.

Travis

[Harlee&Tahoe]

We were up there on July 14th and watched a Poker Run come through. They had the last section paved which made it way too easy. That is fine if they choose to do that for their event but what irked me is when they were finished everyone just dispersed and nobody unstacked the rocks. Here was the event that did it. http://www.hstar.net/ccsar/slick_rock_form.pdf


Also we did Strawberry Creek the same weekend, and the Painted Rock obstacle is not much of an obstacle anymore. Those that are familiar with it will remember a big slab tilted to the side that slides you into Painted Rock... Well that slab has been moved about 4 feet forward and is not at an angle. I belive this was done intentionally and would have required a dozer. Possibly done due to damage to the side of the trail (much like what was happening on GateKeeper) People were tearing big rocks out of the side embankment to use for stacking.

I would have probably missed what was "Painted Rock" if you hadn't said anything.I do hate when people tear $#!+ up and ruin it for the rest of us.
I've passed Strawberry with open front rear, sagging springs,
30" tires, and my Wife as pass. Even made it over the big rocks on the Strawberry side with minimal stacking. (Sorry, I did'nt unstack but that was before "I got edumacated")

http://www.ericsxj.com/barrett/2851.jpg
http://www.ericsxj.com/barrett/2853.jpg
That's rock humping at its finest, so hard he broke his shaft

[rocknxj]

After we got out of Strawberry, we almost started arguing about exactly where the "painted rock" section was since there was nothing obvious to us.

I remember where Painted Rock is. My last trip over Strawberry Pass was with my '02 Liberty and I indeed left some cactus green paint from my beloved KJ.

That Jeep is now gone and I am looking forward to trying the trail with my lifted '99 XJ. I am sure it will not be as much of a challenge as with my non-lifted Liberty, but I do not want to leave any steel blue paint on that rock.

Either way, it is a nice location for wheeling. Can't wait for the next trip.

[Letterman]

But I spent all day stacking them here rocks:

http://www.urfracing.com/images/snakebait/SB_0062.jpg

Trails change, rocks move, people stack them, who cares?
Most the sierra trails are not that hard, other then maybe Fordyce, and the best part to them is the nice views and great camp spots.

[Jes]

Trails change, rocks move, people stack them, who cares?


Ditto.
Stacking optional lines is retarded but there are a lot of retarded users out there. Just gotta unstack here and there as you go.

[Capt. Nemo]

Stacking optional lines is retarded but there are a lot of retarded users out there...


:D

[EricsXJ]

I would have probably missed what was "Painted Rock" if you hadn't said anything.I do hate when people tear $#!+ up and ruin it for the rest of us.
I've passed Strawberry with open front rear, sagging springs,
30" tires, and my Wife as pass. Even made it over the big rocks on the Strawberry side with minimal stacking. (Sorry, I did'nt unstack but that was before "I got edumacated")


Just so you know what it was like before - this was when I first did it in 2003 on 31's. Driver tire is on the slab that is now moved. Back then this was the line you HAD to take. You couldn't drive around it. Now you can and totally avoid Painted Rock (the big rock on my pass side). It doesn't look too hard but it was deceiving. The tilted slab would slide you into Painted Rock every time. :roll:

http://www.ericsxj.com/gallery01/straw49.jpg

[Harlee&Tahoe]

Yup thats the one, that is how I remember it. 30's, a log step, and walking wife:D
Thank you for bringing that back to me

[XJedi23]

We were up there on July 14th and watched a Poker Run come through. They had the last section paved which made it way too easy. That is fine if they choose to do that for their event but what irked me is when they were finished everyone just dispersed and nobody unstacked the rocks. Here was the event that did it. http://www.hstar.net/ccsar/slick_rock_form.pdf
.

That Is my jeep clubs event. I remember hearing them talking about needing to stack to get some of the less equipped rigs through. It was stated that it be unstacked on the way out but...!?! Ill mention this thread to them at our next meeting. We spend a lot of time maintaining Slickrock, and are fighting to keep it open.

[Letterman]

Painted rock:
http://picasaweb.google.com/joeperegrine/GusOnPaintedRockStrawberryTrailVideoClip/photo#4987794793792995346

Just some people I have wheeled with.

[Goatman]

Just get in the habit of chucking rocks out everywhere you go..........that's what I do. If you're standing around talking or watching, pitch out a few rocks, it's therapeutic. :D

[ChuckD]

Just get in the habit of chucking rocks out everywhere you go..........that's what I do. If you're standing around talking or watching, pitch out a few rocks, it's therapeutic. :D


GOATMAN KING OF ROCK UNSTACKING!!!

***This is your warning, don't let the G man lead the Swamp run!!****

:D

[karstic]

GOATMAN KING OF ROCK UNSTACKING!!!

***This is your warning, don't let the G man lead the Swamp run!!****

:D

F'in great. what did I sign myself up for?!:shiver:

[Mrburns]

This past weekend, our group ran Slickrock, Deer Valley, Strawberry Pass, and finished on Barrett. As mentioned, some sections were so stacked that the challenges were not challenges any more. After we got out of Strawberry, we almost started arguing about exactly where the "painted rock" section was since there was nothing obvious to us.

We (some Reno folks) ran DV and slickrock last weekend...it wasn't "overly" stacked...but stacked non the less. We observed an apperantly "wasted" man in a marron YJ, with cali plates to the effect of ****** or something close to that... appread to be fairly well built...anyways... that @$$ hat had no business being on that trail...and I have no doubt is a reason why they want to close it. He was more concerned about hammering down the go-pedle than picking a line and was basically tearing up the trail....

[Letterman]

I really don't get this, so much hate for our own kind, yeah people stack rocks, yeah there are a$$hats on the trail, but this is just giving "them" more amo to close our trails. All people see is what you are whining about, and people will get the idea that is all that is out on our trails. More reason to close down areas and why they should put cops on ever trail!

No one post up the positives, like a few weeks back Shark Marks group found a old full size axle housing on the side of the trail. They not only took the time to pick it up drag it into the back of Arrons XJ, drive it off the trail, but they then took it home and brought it to a recycle center.

I understand the point in trying to "hate the hats" but it is just negitive to our own sport, and it is all people will understand after reading a thread like this.

[Mrburns]

Personally, I only say what I see/experience, so that others, such as these members might be able to say something if they know the guy. Sort of like policing our own, unfortunately it doesn’t always work. I realize that there are hundreds of positive acts made every year, but obviously that isn’t enough. We have to work towards ridding our selves or at the very least, identifying those who act like “hats” and harm our trails. No, we can not keep them off the trails, but we can shame them and those who associate with them. I personally will never wheel with several people from the Reno area, because of the way they act on the trail. Maybe if we all identified those who are not kind to the trails, take advantage of them, and then disassociate ourselves from those individuals, we can then work to clean up the 4x4 communities image. :patriot:

[AzRick]

Just get in the habit of chucking rocks out everywhere you go..........that's what I do. If you're standing around talking or watching, pitch out a few rocks, it's therapeutic. :D

Just don't throw them at your friends :rolleyes:

[Capt. Nemo]

I really don't get this, so much hate for our own kind...
...I understand the point in trying to "hate the hats" but it is just negitive to our own sport, and it is all people will understand after reading a thread like this.

The intention of this thread was to bring to light some trail etiquette, or maybe my latest pet peeve. If this has turned into something other than that, PM Bryan and have it deleted. I'm cool with that.

Less drama=more better.

[EricsXJ]

... I personally will never wheel with several people from the Reno area, because of the way they act on the trail.
Sounds like we need to go wheeling together then! :cheers: I agree there are A LOT of people in our area that just don't get it.

[Mrburns]

Sounds like we need to go wheeling together then! :cheers: I agree there are A LOT of people in our area that just don't get it.


are you on Reno4x4.com?

[EricsXJ]

are you on Reno4x4.com?
I've been on there from the beginning (same user name). I don't post up on there much though. If I remember correctly I'm the one who sold you the ski racks a while back.

[Mrburns]

sweet....clean blue xj?

how are things?

[Capt. Nemo]

See Dave, this thread has took a turn for the better. There's so much love that it's now being used as an alternate PM box!!!

:smootch:

:thumbup:

[Mrburns]

See Dave, this thread has took a turn for the better. There's so much love that it's now being used as an alternate PM box!!!

:smootch:

:thumbup:


:rattle:

[Bryan C.]

:rattle:


Thanks for getting this thread back on topic. :confused1

[Ben H]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/bholt5035/SierraFest2007190.jpg

[Ben H]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/bholt5035/SierraFest2007191.jpg

[karstic]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/bholt5035/SierraFest2007191.jpg

That looks like the place I got stuck.

[MellowYellowCJ7]

Typically, I know if I’m going to make an tougher optional line. I can tell if I only need a couple of rocks or if I’m going to have to build a driveway. If I can’t toss a rock or two under my wheel, then I back up and take the legal bypass. If I get big time stuck, then we get to work with rocks/hiLift/winch/etc.

Don’t hate on the stackers, they just wish they could hang with that sweet CJ7 :D
Just kidding ya’ll that is me in the first picture.

Rock stacking in the sierras is nothing new. In fact it used to be called trail maintenance and it was considered a good thing. I'm for it when there are holes developing or if it slows water run off.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/scrap/retro!/rubicon_littlesluice.jpg

[Letterman]

With PVD just a few weeks away, I was going over photos from back in Feb. '07 and saw some crazy rock stacking!

We must put a stop to this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dlddesign/LameStuff/PV_Close_0481.jpg

Yes all that to make the trail flat!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dlddesign/LameStuff/PV_Mid_0481.jpg

Just need to unstack all that and make the trail hard again:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dlddesign/LameStuff/PV_Far_0481.jpg

Ok I know it is not a Sierra Trail but still! :gee:

[Starboard M]

That looks like the place I got stuck.
It was. You can see where your tire started to kick up the dirt.

You can also see the three rocks that we stacked to get you out.



The huge pile of rocks I dont remember being there, because you got hung up on that large rock.

edit: Pirate thread about rock stacking:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332399

[Kyle Horvath]

A few years back (2002ish), me and my Pops ran Slickrock in my old stock XJ. Only a tiny leak in the T-case was all she got from the run. Too easy. Sad to see that happen.

Good news is I ran it 2006 with a 6 inch over stock XJ on 33s. it was way harder. so someone did some adjustments to make it a little bit more complex.

[Phil]

A few years back (2002ish), me and my Pops ran Slickrock in my old stock XJ. Only a tiny leak in the T-case was all she got from the run. Too easy. Sad to see that happen.

Good news is I ran it 2006 with a 6 inch over stock XJ on 33s. it was way harder. so someone did some adjustments to make it a little bit more complex.

Yes, but who are you to say that it's "better" because it's harder? Was it originally cut as a hard trail? I don't know, never been there.

It's not ok to leave a trail stacked, but it's also not ok to make a trail harder for your own enjoyment.

[Letterman]

It's not ok to leave a trail stacked, but it's also not ok to make a trail harder for your own enjoyment.

Yeah, so don't go out and put a TJ in your way just to see if you can get by it!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jimbo_1321/hollister031.jpg


:kissyou:

[XJensen]

Was it originally cut as a hard trail? I don't know, never been there.

I have not been there yet either but Well's ranks it as a difficult trail.

[trickcomanche]

That looks like the place I got stuck.

Been stuck there as well. Pinch Point on Swamp. Great times.

[Kyle Horvath]

It (Slickrock Road) was originally a road for backcountry travel between 2 reservoirs and a "resort lake" off of highway 4 in california. I'm guessing back in the day a simple 4WD could do it no problem.
Over the years (many), the elements have eaten away at the asphalt and gravel sections.
So. . . stacking in a way restores the road to its original condition, but nature should be able to take its own course reclaiming land as it will (nature, other than the rigs running the trail). But nobody made it "easier", they just removed a crap ton of basketball sized boulders that were placed there to purposely make the trail a more simple run.

Either way, its a purty run, and can be done with a simple rig in less than 2 hours. I take my time to enjoy all the little things along the way.

If anyone wants to organize a summer run, count me in. I'll be Sierra-Side over the summer (North Coast now).

http://californiajeeper.com/slickroc/review.htm

[XJensen]

If anyone wants to organize a summer run, count me in. I'll be Sierra-Side over the summer (North Coast now).


I have been thinking, and should start asking around, if anyone would like to have a 3 day weekend trip starting with Slick Rock Road, Deer Valley and Strawberry. I plan to run these trails late spring early summer.

I'll make it's own tread later, or someone else can if interested, I "should" be working.