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short arm vrs.. long arm

mikereid350

NAXJA Forum User
all right i got a 00xj with a 4" or so lift on now...and running 31" tires i want to go with a 6" lift and 33".. i ride mostly old mining roads, trail, some mild rock crawling.. very little mud... so what the better long arms or shorts arms..i want more ride comfort then flex...
 
what are your needs for 33's? i think it has become common knowledge that 33's are about the limit on a dana 30, espec a low pinion. 6 inches of lift and 33's still equals some trimming to flex like mad. i have a 2000 with 3.5 inch superflex and im running 32's. and well, i dont see the need right now to go up any higher and im pretty much a once and a while guy. another thing too at 6 inches is u have to address your steering and do a sye on the transfercase and a new rear driveshaft. to me there is more involved and basically no benefits to me either. its up to you though. and if you want ride comfort stay at 4 inches. or go longarm and spend a lot more cash.
 
k... should have mentins this my 4" ish lift have lots of sag to it now with my 31" tires they just clear on the front/rear fenders. my track bar is bent,heim joint is a tad loose, the lift kit has 65000 miles on it it. and its starting to get a tad loose...ah ya.. my front drive shaft spline are loose a tad and the rear drive shaft has a dent causeing a vibe
 
Well, I don't see why you are trying to talk him out of it, if he wants to lift his Jeep some more then good for him, he should do it. Quite frankly you don't see the need for yourself to go up much higher than you are now, but he does. Some people just want a bigger, more aggressive looking ride, and there is nothing wrong with that.

O, I know people running much bigger than 33's on a D30. i.e. 35's and 36's.

As for the original poster, the thing is at 6 inches of lift the angles on short arms are too steep. This creates a horrible ride, and can wear out bushings prematurely, and even do damage to brackets should a bump or ditch be hit at the proper angle. (I know because I hit a ditch at less than 10mph on 4.5 and mangled a LCA bracket. You do not want to be offroad should a bracket break off and you need to get out of there, thats a hefty towing bill) If you want ride comfort, go for either drop brackets or long arms. Drop brackets will make the angles on the arms less severe and make the ride a lot smoother. Long arms you have to worry about possibly welding, new crossmembers, and also cutting the stock unibody side brackets off, which means there is no going back if you don't like it.

Now as for brands, I recommend Rubicon Express with drop brackets, and Old Man Emu shocks. This will give you a comfortable ride, but its a bit pricey. If you are looking for long arms, search around for the pros and cons on different brands like RE, T&T, Clayton, RK, Full Traction, etc.

You will need an SYE and new driveshaft for this amount of hight, as well as shims to fix the pinion angle. And as for steering, you will at least need a drop pitman arm. Don't forget about things like brake lines, sway bar links, bumpstops, trimming to fit the 33's, as well as backspacing, trackbar should generally be included in the kit, etc.
 
I'm in the middle of installing drop brackets as we speak... I just came inside to check on a post i put up a few minutes ago and so far I can see how they are going to make the ride a ton smoother... I have finished installing the drivers side. The driver side CAs are alsmost parallel with the ground and the passenger side are still at about a 60 degree angle. Its gunna ride SO much better. You'll get a GREAT price on dropbrackets at Loose Nuts Enterprises! Dan Turner.
 
Begster said:
Well, I don't see why you are trying to talk him out of it, if he wants to lift his Jeep some more then good for him, he should do it. Quite frankly you don't see the need for yourself to go up much higher than you are now, but he does. Some people just want a bigger, more aggressive looking ride, and there is nothing wrong with that.

O, I know people running much bigger than 33's on a D30. i.e. 35's and 36



i wasnt trying to talk him out of it, just voicing my opinions. but i see where you are coming from, i was just voicing my opinion from what i have seen
 
what about skyjacker??? there the only one i seen that is basicly a bolt in on welding or cutting... i not a big fan of welding on a unibody or cutting off factory mounts... for the price it really doens't matter... cause a good parts are not cheep and cheep parts arn't good.... i want high quatly be where i go i camping/fishing is about 70 miles in the bush where cell phones and even fm radio doesn't work....
 
mikereid350 said:
what about skyjacker??? there the only one i seen that is basicly a bolt in on welding or cutting... i not a big fan of welding on a unibody or cutting off factory mounts... for the price it really doens't matter... cause a good parts are not cheep and cheep parts arn't good.... i want high quatly be where i go i camping/fishing is about 70 miles in the bush where cell phones and even fm radio doesn't work....
skyjackers stuff sucks, as far as welding or cutting the mounts, suck it up and do it, look into tnt ot clayton for long arms, the best 2 on the market IMO
 
mikereid350 said:
what about skyjacker??? there the only one i seen that is basicly a bolt in on welding or cutting... i not a big fan of welding on a unibody or cutting off factory mounts... for the price it really doens't matter... cause a good parts are not cheep and cheep parts arn't good.... i want high quatly be where i go i camping/fishing is about 70 miles in the bush where cell phones and even fm radio doesn't work....

rusty's, which i'd take over skyjacker anyday.
 
Just finished the Drop Brackets... Twice the ride! The nose dives when i hit the brakes a little more than it did before but hardly noticable... I still have somthing a lil loose contributing to some funny noises while articulating but the drop brackets cured my death wooble... Now all i gotta do is get an alignment and bolt on my steering stabilizer and she'll be ready to roll... The Drop brackets moved my axle forward about an inch and got rid of all of my scrubbing issues as well... Nice! Well worth the 300 bucks.
 
I think lifts greater than 4" can benefit greatly by either drop brackets or longer control arms. In fact, I'd say they are required, if you are interested in doing the lift correctly.
Drop brackets are an "easy" way to correct arm angles and still retain 4-link suspension, which I feel is superior to long arm (radius arm) set-ups; however, lots of people are happy with their radius arms.
Personally, I'd op for a 3-link kit, if I were starting from scratch; they're all based on long control arms, and solve the binding associated with both 4-link (stock) and radius arm set-ups.
 
2000bluexj said:
i think it has become common knowledge that 33's are about the limit on a dana 30, espec a low pinion.


Not sure where this common knowledge comes from but it is widely known that the D30 (even the LPD30 in the TJ's) are good up to a 35" tire, if you lock it or run it hard then it's recommended to upgrade the shafts, but other then that it's a pretty good axle. Go poke around on some other forums and see what they have to say...
 
Chili Palmer said:
Not sure where this common knowledge comes from but it is widely known that the D30 (even the LPD30 in the TJ's) are good up to a 35" tire,

With 760x joints, a locker, and 33" tires I could break it on demand nearly every trip out. I wasn't stupid with the throttle either. No way in hell I could ever recommend with a clear conscience that anyone try bigger tires with that axle.
 
Chili Palmer said:
if you lock it or run it hard then it's recommended to upgrade the shafts

vetteboy said:
With 760x joints, a locker, and 33" tires I could break it on demand nearly every trip out. I wasn't stupid with the throttle either. No way in hell I could ever recommend with a clear conscience that anyone try bigger tires with that axle.

I guess I could've elaborated a little more - "if you lock it or run it hard then it's recommended to upgrade the shafts - both inner and outter shafts along with the ujoints!"

Am I missing something here, or is the XJ D30 somehow weaker then the TJ? Not trying to be an ass, but I've been wheelin' and hanging out on boards for a while now, obviously not as long as most, and this is the only place I've seen this mentioned. Every other board I go to (JF, JU, etc.) you'll see hundreds, if not thousands, of wheelers wheelin' on 33's or 35's with the stock D30 locked. I personally run 31's (no where near the weight of 33's or 35's though) and an Aussie and I've never had an issue nor am I worried about it.

As a matter of fact, most people on the TJ boards recommend an upgrade to the XJ HPD30 -especially when going to 35's!, because the reverse rotation ring gear is stronger in a front end application; which I'm sure you were aware of.
 
Yea....I wheeled a TJ. Stock dana30, 4:88 gears, aussie locker. I BEAT TH EBALLS off of that rig. never had one problem. OO and I was on 34X10.5 BIAS ply TSls, with heavy steelies. Never broke a dang thing. It needed Ujoints REALLY bad when I sold it though.

When I go with my lift on the XJ(probably 6 inches) I will end up doing drop brackets. LAs arent for me. I do mostly mud, and dont really need LAs. Plus $$ is a factor, and ide rather not cut/weld/bolt to the unibody.
 
Chili Palmer said:
I guess I could've elaborated a little more - "if you lock it or run it hard then it's recommended to upgrade the shafts - both inner and outter shafts along with the ujoints!"

True enough there. At which point the gears and carrier likely become the next weak link. There are several examples on this site of people who have built D30's with trusses and shafts, and I would likely have been able to make one built that way last with 33's (except those teeny ball joints...that's a different issue though).

Chili Palmer said:
Am I missing something here, or is the XJ D30 somehow weaker then the TJ? Not trying to be an ass, but I've been wheelin' and hanging out on boards for a while now, obviously not as long as most, and this is the only place I've seen this mentioned. Every other board I go to (JF, JU, etc.) you'll see hundreds, if not thousands, of wheelers wheelin' on 33's or 35's with the stock D30 locked. I personally run 31's (no where near the weight of 33's or 35's though) and an Aussie and I've never had an issue nor am I worried about it.

It's mentioned quite often on one of the other boards I frequent - Pirate4x4. Coincidentally most of the people I wheel with also come from that board.

I'll be honest - I don't necessarily wheel very gently. I don't mindlessly beat the crap out of it, but especially being on the east coast there are situations that require wheelspeed. If I'm trying to make it through a difficult obstacle, the last thing that I want to be thinking about is "OK, I can't go over 2500 RPM here, or I can't turn the steering wheel more than halfway". For me to have the level of confidence in my rig that I want, the D30 just wasn't doing it anymore. FWIW I also managed to generate a little bit of twist in the splines of my rear D44 but never had a shaft fail.

So like I said, since I can't vouch for anyone else's level of expectations from their hardware, based on my experience, it's not hard to blow one up. YMMV.

Chili Palmer said:
As a matter of fact, most people on the TJ boards recommend an upgrade to the XJ HPD30 -especially when going to 35's!, because the reverse rotation ring gear is stronger in a front end application; which I'm sure you were aware of.

*reverse spiral :) (it still spins the same way)

No question the high-pinion gearset is stronger in a front application. If you're going far enough to upgrade the shafts & joints to aftermarket pieces I would almost call that a necessity.
 
2000bluexj said:
what are your needs for 33's? i think it has become common knowledge that 33's are about the limit on a dana 30


I run 35's on my 30 and *hammer* on it. Next time around I'll be going to 36's. Don't use knock off parts and 33's is in no way a limit.
 
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