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rear end "spring like" noise with brakes

pauldo39

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Madison, WI
I'll be the first to admit that brake drum systems are not my specialty (and if I keep my XJ long enough, which I intend to, I want to convert to rear discs).

About 2.5 months ago, I had the entire rear brake system redone (new drums, shoes, wheel cylinders, adjustment kit) for a really good price at Midas, as the entire system was literally gone beforehand. So besides my front discs having a tiny bit of squeaking, my brakes were silent during operation.

But maybe 2-3 weeks ago, I heard what sounded like a creaking spring, being severely stretched (like opening a screen door to it's limit) every time I pushed down maybe 40% of the pedal and more. It was clearly coming from the rear, and making a short, high pitched squeak if I let up the brake suddenly, like it was popping back. It's especially noticeable inside the vehicle. I took it back to Midas and told them about the noise, and they took a look at it and said they took it apart, put it back together and found nothing wrong. Strangely enough, the sound disappeared when I took it back.

Alas, the sound is back now. I crawled under the back while someone pumped the brakes and it looks like where the brake line goes into the rear could be causing the squeak, but not the creaking spring sound. If I leave the parking brake slightly engaged, the sound is nowhere near as obvious, but still there, so maybe something is loosely adjusted?

Does anyone have any ideas? I would be grateful for some advice because I know so little about drum brakes and no idea what really to tell Midas to look for. It's understandable they can't hear the sound, because it isn't that loud and their shop is on a really busy highway. Also is their perhaps something on the axle itself that could be moving under the brake pressure?
 
jack your rear up an spin the rear tire by hand, there should be some drag on it.. if not you need to ajust your rear brakes..how far does your e-brake go up?
 
The e-brake doesn't feel any different than it did before the brakes were redone, although it doesn't seem as strong as it used to be. I don't know if that should be telling me something or not. It's just that in my experience, telling a mechanic to "fix a noise" is much more of a crap shoot than "look at this part/... and fix it because that's quite possibly the problem".
 
So it's not just me. I've have a very similar noise, but it's usually when I release the brake that I hear it. Mines been doing it on and off for over a year. I've had two shops look at it and say everything is fine. The second shop actually replaced the pads and rotors, but said the back still had some life left in it. When it rains the noise changes into more of a clunk. I figure it stops okay so I'll just not worry about it.
 
No, no ABS; sorry should have mentioned that. The brake feel is good on my jeep and it doesn't really seem to affect stopping ability, but I just don't feel comfortable with any noise coming from the brakes, ESPECIALLY when they were just redone. I am worried that there is an adjustment issue or something. It's just an odd sound, when pushing the brake pedal in a decent amount, it just sounds like something is stretching or catching somewhere.
 
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X3 on the same noise (almost exactly what Kendrick says)...rain makes it worse....
 
What you hear as a creaking spring is probably just that - a creaking spring. It's not usually heard when the brakes are adjusted tight, so I'd check for an inoperative adjuster. It will often appear when the brakes move further than they're accustomed to owing to bad adjustment. It's possible one of the adjusters wasn't put together properly.
 
Isn't there a spring that returns the brake to the not braking position? On the pedal? Make sure it's not that you are hearing and it is in fact coming from the rear axle.
 
98XJSport said:
Isn't there a spring that returns the brake to the not braking position? On the pedal? Make sure it's not that you are hearing and it is in fact coming from the rear axle.

You're right, there is... and that sound can be clearly heard as well when pumping the pedal hard and letting up quickly, however the sound I am describing is coming from the rear, most audible when in the cargo area. From the inside it just sounds like something in the rear end is creaking when the brakes are depressed (same sound also when pulling the e-brake). From outside the vehicle, the sound of a high pitched squeak/creak can be heard when quickly letting off the pedal, and when I'm underneath with someone else pushing the pedal, I can hear the same creaking sound but it just sounds a lot different outside versus inside, not as pronounced outside.

I should add that the sound doesn't seem to be anywhere near as noticeable when braking while moving backwards, only when still, and slowing to under 7-8mph.
 
pauldo39 said:
You're right, there is... and that sound can be clearly heard as well when pumping the pedal hard and letting up quickly, however the sound I am describing is coming from the rear, most audible when in the cargo area. From the inside it just sounds like something in the rear end is creaking when the brakes are depressed (same sound also when pulling the e-brake). From outside the vehicle, the sound of a high pitched squeak/creak can be heard when quickly letting off the pedal, and when I'm underneath with someone else pushing the pedal, I can hear the same creaking sound but it just sounds a lot different outside versus inside, not as pronounced outside.

I should add that the sound doesn't seem to be anywhere near as noticeable when braking while moving backwards, only when still, and slowing to under 7-8mph.

My stepson's 93 made much the same noise when one of the adjuster cables snapped and the brake began traveling further. What made the noise was simply one of the brake return springs. They are unlubricated, and will often make a little squeaking or creaking noise. Normally, when the brakes are fully adjusted, there's so little movement that the squeak is minimal. There are other possible sources of a squeak, for the same reason: the innards of a drum brake are unlubricated, and various parts move around when you brake, especially in a "self-energizing" design such as this. When the shoes expand they don't only push outward, they also rotate slightly with the drum, and as they do so, a ramp at one end adds outward force to enhance braking. The shoes themselves rub against the backing plate, and are held to it by springs that themselves move around a little bit. In other words, a lot of things can squeak, and generally the more movement there is, the more likely they are to do so, so the first thing to do is to find out if there's more movement than there should be.

When I got my 99 it had very recently had its brakes redone, but the adjusters did not work because the cable guides which go through one of the top shoes were not inserted properly. The top spring holds the whole thing together so it doesn't fall apart, and it's hard to spot the problem. But with the cable guides even slightly off, the brakes will never adjust themselves. Even when everything is right, the design is marginal, and I have never trusted it.
 
Thanks for the response Matthew, that certainly sounds like a possibility. My Jeep is actually back at Midas now, as I dropped it off again telling them exactly what to listen for; they called back and said my rear end has some play (which I am aware of, but highly doubtful that that is what is making the noise especially when stationary) but I will have to ask them if they did anything else; I told them to check the adjustment.

In your experience, is this noise something to worry about? I feel like if I keep this vehicle for much longer there are going to be expensive things to replace not long down the road, so in your opinion do you believe I should be worried about this if Midas refuses to admit a problem?
 
So I got it back from Midas, and no surprise they said absolutely nothing was wrong and suggested my rear axle was making a louder noise. Now, the guy was ok, but he said that little noise is normal and the brakes are in good shape. I believe the brakes are in good shape, but they never used to make any sound so I didn't think it was unreasonable for me to think they shouldn't make noise now.

Now my question; the noise does indeed sound louder from the interior than from the exterior. Is there anything that normally moves when the brakes are applied (besides the brakes themselves) that could be rubbing or grabbing? I plan on raising it up this weekend and taking a closer look with someone inside pushing the brakes. I still think what Matthew described as the issue I am experiencing so I'll be checking that out, but if anyone else has any problem or issue areas they believe may be at fault, I'd be thankful for the suggestions.
 
I can't look under my jeep to be sure, but isn't there some brake related equipment on the drivers side bolted under the floor? That may have a spring on it, Im thinking something to do with the e-brake. But I can't remember...
 
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I do believe I know what you're talking about; where the parking brake cable splits off into each rear brake? I have a crappy Chilton manual that is of little help in these situations...

Every time I'm looking for the location of certain components is the time I say "why don't I have a good FSM!"
 
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