Lifters without pulling head

Ok, my father in law and I just got his 4.0 back together last night. We replaced the cracked 0331 head, added the banks header, and hoped for the best. One of the lifters is not working properly it seems, nasty rpm dependent tapping noise. I have 5 qts oil, 1 qt atf in there right now, and have only driven it about 25 miles so far. I'm really hoping it will free up.

My question: is it possible to pull the pushrod from the offending lifter and use a vacuum to pull shavings out as I open up the hole enough to pull a lifter through with a carbide cutting tool?
If MMO doesn't free up the lifter, we're going to have to replace it. If we can get away with not pulling the head, that would really be a good thing. How much bigger are the lifters than the openings in the head? I'm guessing this is not a good idea, and it propably wouldnt work anyway. Any thoughts?

DUNE JUMP said:

My question: is it possible to pull the pushrod from the offending lifter and use a vacuum to pull shavings out as I open up the hole enough to pull a lifter through with a carbide cutting tool? FONT]

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Dangerous as that sounds, I took a look at a head I have laying around here, and the holes for the push rods are too close to the casting where the spark plugs are inserted, and you would probably also be cutting into the water jacket. A good idea (if you could guarantee removal of all the chips), just not enough room to work with. Sorry.
Start pulling......

Why didnt you replace the lifters when you did the head?

1985xjlaredo said:

Why didnt you replace the lifters when you did the head?

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That's the question of the week for me, I am really kicking myself for not doing them when we were in there.

I pulled the valve cover off last night and it's cylinder 3, intake valve. I can push the pushrod down by hand while the others are very firm. My guess is that as the cam lobe comes around to that lifter, it just compresses and doesn't actually open the valve. Is there any way to breathe new life into that lifter? It's like it has no oil in it at all, like a spring with no shock.

How did you adjust the rockers the first time?

If the lifter is truly bad, I think you're better off pulling the head and swapping ALL the lifters

Why didnt you replace the lifters when you did the head?
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In a high mileage engine. (IMO) It's a waste of time to replace ONE lifter. It's a waste to NOT replace the cam. The old cam will often trash the bottom of a fresh lifter in short order. ""I"" don't like putting a new cam on old bearings. etc etc.
To my way of thinking it's just better to live with a little tick then open up that can of worms.

Saudade said:

How did you adjust the rockers the first time?

If the lifter is truly bad, I think you're better off pulling the head and swapping ALL the lifters

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We just torqued the rockers down to their respective numbers. I didn't do that part, my father in law did, but I'm guessing that lifter was soft at that time as well

badron said:

Why didnt you replace the lifters when you did the head?
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In a high mileage engine. (IMO) It's a waste of time to replace ONE lifter. It's a waste to NOT replace the cam. The old cam will often trash the bottom of a fresh lifter in short order. ""I"" don't like putting a new cam on old bearings. etc etc.
To my way of thinking it's just better to live with a little tick then open up that can of worms.

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Yes, if we pull the head we will replace all the lifters. I'm just wondering what exactly fails in a lifter that keeps it from being filled with oil? That is what is happening right?

I hate to tell you this, but to replace any lifter without replacing the cam is likely a wast of money. And, of course, you shouldn't ever put a used lifter on a new cam. So, the right thing to do is replace all of the lifters, along with a new cam, cam bearings, and timing gear set.

I've had luck completely dissembling all of the lifters and thoroughly cleaning them in parts cleaner. I'd only do this as a stop-gap measure, on an engine I intended to replace or rebuild in the near future, and an untimely problem has forced me to get into it now.

DUNE JUMP said:

what exactly fails in a lifter that keeps it from being filled with oil? ?

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either the tiny holes that flow the oil are plugged, or the spring inside the lifter is worn and wont allow the piston inside the lifter to return to its normal operating position. it's all far too tiny to perform any maintenance, its a replacement type item. regardless, just to reinforce what's already been said, you need all new lifters, and likely new cam, and best bet would be new cam bearings too

Well I pulled the head again and the cylinder 3 intake lifter is worn down enough that oil is seeping out of a hole in the bottom. The cam is trash too obviously. No amount of marvel mystery oil would have plugged that. Oh the joys of Jeep ownership. Thanks for the help!

How many miles on the 4.0?

While I agree with not putting used lifters on a new bumpstick (supremely bad idea - you'll wreck the bumpstick in about ten minutes that way...) and if you should reuse lifters; do so only with the original camshaft, and only if the lifters go back into the exact same holes they came out of, I'll argue the point of not putting new lifters on a used cam. It's entirely possible to put new lifters on an old cam - I've done it several times (presupposing, of course, that the camshaft itself is still good.) As long as you're generous with the assembly lube, and follow proper run-in procedure, there's no danger.

Again, this is as long as you know the camshaft itself is still good. If it's shot, then just change the whole package and call it done.

I agree with some of what is being said, but just one thing..

you are saying that since he has 1 bad lifter he should replace everything including the cam bearings? Personally, and I have done this more than once(not my jeep both times). I would just pull the head again and replace all the lifters. I did it on my old motor(pre-stroker), and ran it for 90k more without so much as a tick. Unless you are just in the mood to pull the bottom end out of the motor and haul the block to a machine shop to press fit in new bearings.

Although, if you are in the mood for that, you should just go ahead and have them take .06 off the cylinders and throw some new pistons and rings in there, this could be a good argument to get yourself most of the way to a stroker.


5-90 has a point too, the current cam in my stroker is the .270 duration stock one out of the old motor(old cam looked great). Throw the new lifters in, oil it up, break it in right, and it runs like a champ.