new frame

[Trail Blazer]

anyone ever cut the original frame off the xj and build a new one? if so, could i get some links or pics of that? i'm thinking about doing that to my xj due to the fact that i'm getting tired of welding the frame back together in various places (ie: steering box area). was thinking about building the frame out of 4x2 rectanglur tube. any thoughts?

Trail Blazer

[dfreeman616]

stupid double post

[dfreeman616]

take a look around and you'll find various 'buggy' projects that have little left of the original unibody 'frame', so it certianly can be done. it depends on the resoureces you have, including time and money, and how good you are at welding and fab. you might try just reinforcing the unibody to begin with, rather than cut off the psuedo-frame rails to begin with. here's a good link about beefing up the unibody: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168280&highlight=TOTW
go down to post #16 and there's some good info, from a quick skim.

[Goatman]

I can't see replacing the frame, needless and tedius work in my view, but many of us reinforce the frame in critical areas. There are products on the market that will eliminate frame cracking around the steering box, no need to cut out the whole frame and replace it. There have been some pretty good discussions about frame stiffening and building cages to add rigidity, so search around a little for some good info.

[Goatman]

stupid double post

Yours, or his?

:rolleyes:

[Roxtar]

C-ROC did that with his rig.
PM him for details.

Or just buy his.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=89040

[YELLAHEEP]

Didn't Rick Norman do at least 3/4 of his unibody/frame by basically sleeving the outside of the unibody frame rails.... all the way up to and around the radiator support? He had it on a rotisserie when he did all that and there were some pretty good pics of that IIRC. Anyone still have links for those pics?

[dfreeman616]

Yours, or his?

:rolleyes:

mine, but for some reason evertime i tried to post something, it wanted to double it up.

[badron]

With an independent frame you can do a body lift. Get some or all the tire clearance you want. Keep a better COG then with just a suspension lift to get the same clearance. No or fewer drive train, steering problems. Easier to build or place custom suspension parts with a body lift.
From what I have seen on some Cherokee with all the stiffening bracing and repairing done to stock frames. I thank it would have been less work just to build a frame from scratch.

For the very hard offes I think it's the easy if not cheaper way to go.

[AzRick]

Didn't Rick Norman do at least 3/4 of his unibody/frame by basically sleeving the outside of the unibody frame rails.... all the way up to and around the radiator support? He had it on a rotisserie when he did all that and there were some pretty good pics of that IIRC. Anyone still have links for those pics?

I do :cool:

http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/88_xj.htm

I "sleeved" it all the way from the front to back.

Rick

[Goatman]

With an independent frame you can do a body lift. Get some or all the tire clearance you want. Keep a better COG then with just a suspension lift to get the same clearance. No or fewer drive train, steering problems. Easier to build or place custom suspension parts with a body lift.
From what I have seen on some Cherokee with all the stiffening bracing and repairing done to stock frames. I thank it would have been less work just to build a frame from scratch.

For the very hard offes I think it's the easy if not cheaper way to go.

I hate to do this (sort of), but this post is a bunch of baloney. The XJ is a uniframe, it has a frame, it's just unitized with the body. You could not do a body lift, you would have to build a new frame and mount it below the existing frame. It doesn't matter how you raise the body/chassis, if you lift it up the COG is going to be higher.......

More reading please............. :rolleyes:

[FitchVA]

I hate to do this (sort of), but this post is a bunch of baloney. The XJ is a uniframe, it has a frame, it's just unitized with the body. You could not do a body lift, you would have to build a new frame and mount it below the existing frame. It doesn't matter how you raise the body/chassis, if you lift it up the COG is going to be higher.......

More reading please............. :rolleyes:
i think that's what he was talking about. this thread was started to see if anyone has mated a new real frame under an xj. and it looks like he said that if someone did do this, they could possibly do a body lift. it didn't look like he was suggesting that you could put a body lift on a non modified xj frame/unibody.

[badron]

Yes, what FitchVA said. Thanks FitchVA for the help.

[Goatman]

i think that's what he was talking about. this thread was started to see if anyone has mated a new real frame under an xj. and it looks like he said that if someone did do this, they could possibly do a body lift. it didn't look like he was suggesting that you could put a body lift on a non modified xj frame/unibody.

A body lift leaves most of the items with weight at the same height, like the existing frame and powertrain. Installing a new frame under the XJ frame would raise everything, including the powertrain. Using the term "body lift" is innacurate, though I know what you mean, and the effect on COG would not be like a body lift since the powertrain would also be raised (unlike on a body lift). Maybe body lift was just a poor choice of words, but the COG comment just doesn't apply.

[Trail Blazer]

Goatman, my original plan is to cut the ENTIRE frame off the XJ, build a NEW frame using 2x4 or 2x6 inch tubing. then add body mounts to it so the body could mount to the frame (like a chevy). yeah, i could probably put body lift on after i did that, but i hate body lifts. Real lifts are done with suspension lifts.

I'd also have to add the engine/tranny mounts, have a beefier rear leaf mounts and prolly make new a bracket to attach the fron coils to the new frame (instead of the body).

And yes, i relise that this project would be a HUGH project, but why not? I gots nothing better to do,..... beside deliver pizzas :P

[Matt S.]

http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/JV_tippy.jpg


Ah man.... I loved that. "DENT THE HOOD! DENT THE HOOD!"

[Roxtar]

but why not?The question that screams out to me is, "WHY?"
Cut off the frame rails and bolt the body to new frame rails?
Drastically weaken the entire chassis? (vs just sleeving the rails)
Introduce assloads of new stress points with all the squeeking and cracking that goes with it.
For what purpose?
Cause you have too much time on your hands?
Is your XJ so built up that a different project (one that will actually benefit it) doesn't exist?
Go work with inner city kids or take up knitting or something.

[Goatman]

Exactly!!

In case you didn't know it, unitized bodies are stiffer than body on frame vehicles. CJ's/YJ's/TJ's and Toyota's also have to deal with frame cracking and fatigue. The BEST course of action for a stiff chassis is a reinforced frame and cage. You are proposing a huge project (significant amounts of time and labor) with very questionable results.

You're asking..........we're saying don't do it! You will get superior results from the already proven methods.

[HillbillyXJ]

Stupid Question Country,
Which is "better" for stiffening the frame rails 3" angle iron or square tubing with one side cut out? Also, when plug welding at what intervels do you weld (how far apart?)
If using angle iron do you weld the verticle plane AND the bottom surface or run a bead along the bottom seam to seal the bottom side?
Also, if using a TNT belly pan that bolts through the frame rails, guess that would also involve hole sawing through the frame?
If using a Clayton system, would you run angle or tubing up to the cross member where it's welded then continue on to the front on the other side of cross member?

[Roxtar]

Stupid Question Country,
Which is "better" for stiffening the frame rails 3" angle iron or square tubing with one side cut out? Also, when plug welding at what intervels do you weld (how far apart?)
If using angle iron do you weld the verticle plane AND the bottom surface or run a bead along the bottom seam to seal the bottom side?
Also, if using a TNT belly pan that bolts through the frame rails, guess that would also involve hole sawing through the frame?
If using a Clayton system, would you run angle or tubing up to the cross member where it's welded then continue on to the front on the other side of cross member?I like a couple things about using angle.
First, you get that extra weld along the bottom to further anchor the frame rail to the angle. Because of this I think you can get by with fewer plug welds; I went with every 1.5'-2' apart with mine.
Second, It's just easier to get it to fit nicer, especially if your rails are already a little beat up.
The negative?
Upside down welding, lots of it.
Hatefull, hatefull, hatefull

[Goatman]

Stupid Question Country,
Which is "better" for stiffening the frame rails 3" angle iron or square tubing with one side cut out? Also, when plug welding at what intervels do you weld (how far apart?)
If using angle iron do you weld the verticle plane AND the bottom surface or run a bead along the bottom seam to seal the bottom side?
Also, if using a TNT belly pan that bolts through the frame rails, guess that would also involve hole sawing through the frame?
If using a Clayton system, would you run angle or tubing up to the cross member where it's welded then continue on to the front on the other side of cross member?

Structure, rather than mass, is what really increases stiffness. For pure rigidity, adding boxed tubing without cutting out one side would give the best increase. However, the goal is also to reinforce the frame to keep it from getting smashed by rocks. So, the best overall way would be to add a strap to the underside of the frame for protection and add a cage for rigidity, and plate the frame around the steering box and track bar mount and reinforce the rear spring hanger for strength.

On mine, I added the cage, reinforced all those points mentioned, and added boxed tubing along the side of the frame between the control arm mounts and the front spring hangers. It's very rigid.

[HillbillyXJ]

Goatmeister, Sir,
By saying strap do you mean flat stock and would that be 2" or 3"? Also what size sqare tubing at the control arm monts and spring hangers?
Would'nt happen to have any visuals, would ya, would ya, would ya?

[jeepnuts311]

http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/JV_tippy.jpg


Ah man.... I loved that. "DENT THE HOOD! DENT THE HOOD!"

wow...thats....off camber.

i love it
-Tim