Won't buy another Hayden fan

[jeeperjohn]

I just had another wheeling trip cut short thanks to Hayden fans. I am using two Hayden 12" fans on my radiator and they work O.K. when they work. But I have had 4 Hayden fans fail on me in 3 years. One caught fire internally and nearly burned up my ride. I have to say that the folks at Hayden have excellent customer service and even sent me a free replacement for the last one that failed but that just doesn't cut it when you are half way up a hill that you wouldn't dare try to back down and your temp gauge is yelling "shut it off dumbass!". So lesson learned, you can not get a quality radiator fan cheap. Now I am looking at the Taurus fan mod. I wanted to be different but now I just want to be safe.

[Speed_racer]

ok.

[goodburbon]

x 2 and add "imperial" brand to that list. I have 3- 10" fans and a brand new radiator and now that summer is here I am beginning to overheat again. Checked out my fans, and only the new "other" brand name fan is pulling like it should while the other 2 (hayden and Imperial....but identical in design and housing.) just lazily half ass spin up.

[markaboo929]

Hayden markets the "imperial" brand stuff.Garbage.The best fan i have found is www.zirgo.com (http://www.zirgo.com) excellent fans and i have 1 14" BLU zirgo fan ijn place of my stock fan clutch and run the newer style factory aux fan.been in there for 3 years no NO problemas and kicks booty!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

[jeeperjohn]

x 2 and add "imperial" brand to that list. I have 3- 10" fans and a brand new radiator and now that summer is here I am beginning to overheat again. Checked out my fans, and only the new "other" brand name fan is pulling like it should while the other 2 (hayden and Imperial....but identical in design and housing.) just lazily half ass spin up.

While replacing my bad fan last night I disassembled the motor and found that the brushes had burned a large spot into the commutator. These fans are made with very poor quality components. I wish someone had wised me up to this before I shelled out a total of $320 on replacing fans.

[markaboo929]

did ya check the zirgo one's.life time warranty too.ya may want to check ebay on them as well.thats where i got mine.

[MudDawg]

I killed 3 electric fans in the Heep....now I have a stock fan and clutch....the world goes full circle.

[goodburbon]

The jeep gained too much pep when I switched to all electric, I am gonna make it work even if I have to bolt one of these other haydens I have lying around to the hood and mount an extra heater core in my hood vent.

[jeeperjohn]

did ya check the zirgo one's.life time warranty too.ya may want to check ebay on them as well.thats where i got mine.
I saw the warranty on their site. I am planning to do alot of research this time and get the best most reliable fan I can find.

[PornstaR]

did ya check the zirgo one's.life time warranty too.ya may want to check ebay on them as well.thats where i got mine.

Limited Lifetime Warranty, not lifetime.

[Ramsey]

The jeep gained too much pep when I switched to all electric, I am gonna make it work even if I have to bolt one of these other haydens I have lying around to the hood and mount an extra heater core in my hood vent.
WWMD?

What would moggie do?

I hear a mailbox calling your name.

[goodburbon]

Hayden markets the "imperial" brand stuff.Garbage.The best fan i have found is www.zirgo.com (http://www.zirgo.com) excellent fans and i have 1 14" BLU zirgo fan ijn place of my stock fan clutch and run the newer style factory aux fan.been in there for 3 years no NO problemas and kicks booty!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

I ordered one on your advice and its the SAME FAWKING FAN AS THE HAYDEN, IMPERIAL etc. except it was 70 bucks instead of 49.

The only difference is the fan blade. The housing, cage and motor are identical to the other POS units.

I am soooooooooo fawkin pissed!

[90Blue_XJ]

I ordered one on your advice and its the SAME FAWKING FAN AS THE HAYDEN, IMPERIAL etc. except it was 70 bucks instead of 49.

The only difference is the fan blade. The housing, cage and motor are identical to the other POS units.

I am soooooooooo fawkin pissed!

Shoulda done the GoJeep Taurus Mod. Prolly cheaper and available in every Junkyard you see. When I go all electric thats my plan.

[MGrobe]

When I did research a few years back, the two fan manufacturers that I couldn't find bad things about were Spal and Derale. I chose Derale. My fan uses Bosch motors. Otherwise I would look into the OEM fans like the previously mentioned Taurus fan. I know I had seen at least one Taurus fan based off of a Siemens motor, which is a quality indicator.

One these days when I have a reason to pull my minivan fan off I will have to take some dimensional measurements and try and see if I can determine the CFM's it pulls.

[MisterFubar]

Go to the pick and pull and buy a taurus fan and be done with it. I haven't put one on my XJ yet, but I've had them on several other trucks and never had a problem. Best 25 bucks you can spend.

Here is how I wire mine.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6263/2speedfanvq9.jpg

I get my 70 amp relays from ww.12voltguy.com. http://www.12voltguy.com/70amprelay.htm
They are the same size as a standard relay but with bigger terminals on the power sides.

[goodburbon]

Yeah, but the junkyards around here suck. I have to drive an hour to get to the u-pull it and the local guys who have taurus fans don't care to sell them because they aren't that expensive. I've contacted them 3 times in the past 2 weeks about a seat and they say "i'm not gonna pull a tech off of a 1000 dollar engine job to get a seat, we'll give you a call when we get a tech free."

[MisterFubar]

I pulled 7 of them the last time I was at my Pick and Pull. They normally sell on ebay for about 40-60 depending on if they have the plug or not. I've only got 2 at the house right now and they are spoken for, but the next time I go I'll grab some more and post them up on here.

[MisterFubar]

Another thing if you go the taurus fan route. Make sure you get the one that fits 91-95 Taurus/Sable/Continental with the 3.8L. It's the 2 speed with about 2000 cfm on the low speed and 4000-4500 on the high. The 3.0L are a single speed and only pull about 2500 cfm.

[Slo-Sho]

Does anyone have a picture of a finished installation of the famous 'Taurus Fan' on a LHD XJ?:dunno:

[goodburbon]

I don't know if you guys noticed this but.....ITS A 16" fan and its fawkin huge!!!

I'm just pissy today, forgive me, but I had a nice, neat 3 fan setup that looked clean too. Now I will yet again have a frankenstein setup.

On the bright side I now have a spare hayden 14", 3-10"ers and one torqueflo 10", and 2 Taurus fans. If i had the room and electricity I could cool a big ass engine.

[MisterFubar]

Does anyone have a picture of a finished installation of the famous 'Taurus Fan' on a LHD XJ?:dunno:

I will in a month or so when I get around to installing mine. It's not really a priority right now as my XJ is only serving DD duties and it's cooling fine. I will do it, but I need to spend most of my free time working on my trail rig.

[markaboo929]

I ordered one on your advice and its the SAME FAWKING FAN AS THE HAYDEN, IMPERIAL etc. except it was 70 bucks instead of 49.

The only difference is the fan blade. The housing, cage and motor are identical to the other POS units.

I am soooooooooo fawkin pissed!
I dont understand,the one I recieved was deffinetly NOT a hayden,imperial one.Have you looked at the markings on the zirgo unit to see if they are really the same?I will try to see if I can get a good photo of mine for you.Mine has really been in there for 3 years now and is still working excellent.Dunno maybe they changed or sumthing in the past 3 years.Please do not be pissed at me I have had good results with the one I recieved and was only trying to help.Sorry you feel that way........:eye:

[goodburbon]

No, I'm not pissed at you or anyone else. I am a little miffed about the representation of the fan I was buying on the order page, It looks nothing like the picture on the order page, but if you click the "high resolution photo" link it shows the type of fan I recieved, not the one pictured. Side by side the only difference between the two (aside from the white zirgo stamp) is the blade style.

[goodburbon]

The go-jeep write up is for a right hand drive xj, Since in the U.S. ours are left hand drive vehicles, this mod does not work as shown on his website. I am currently trying to fit the taurus fan in there, but looking at it so far its not even going to come close. The shroud will have to be trimmed to fit the fan blades closer to the radiator or the radiator mounting holes will have to be moved forward about an inch.

[MGrobe]

edited because I jumped to conclusions without scrolling further down gojeeps page

Second time around he did.

http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoTaurusFanInstall1.htm

If you do a Taurus fan search someone else did it in the last month or two for those who want to see a LHD install. Not sure if there was pics as I didn't dig to deep in the thread.

[law.74]

I don't know if you guys noticed this but.....ITS A 16" fan and its fawkin huge!!!

I'm just pissy today, forgive me, but I had a nice, neat 3 fan setup that looked clean too. Now I will yet again have a frankenstein setup.

On the bright side I now have a spare hayden 14", 3-10"ers and one torqueflo 10", and 2 Taurus fans. If i had the room and electricity I could cool a big ass engine.

What was wrong with the 3 10" fan setup?

edit: besides using cheap fans...

[goodburbon]

I have to have it ready for the 13th, and the 10" fans don't exactly fit, there is one inch of overlap and you have to trim the fan shrouds to get them all in, especially with the Hayden type. It's a risky operation as you can take too much and it will allow too much flexing, or the fan blades may rub something.

The taurus fan is in now and it doesn't look too bad. I had to push the radiator forward about an inch and a half and trim the crap out of the taurus fan housing, I burned through 2 4-1/2"cutoff wheels cutting body parts to allow the condenser and radiator to fit, and to allow the fan to fit flush with the radiator without rubbing on the body.

Now I have to re-do all of the wiring and I really like the schematic Misterfubar posted up. I will modify it slightly to allow the A/C to trigger it as well as the thermostat.

[MisterFubar]

Now I have to re-do all of the wiring and I really like the schematic Misterfubar posted up. I will modify it slightly to allow the A/C to trigger it as well as the thermostat.

Thanks. I didn't bother putting AC on the diagram because the rig I drew it up for didn't have AC. :firedevil

Won't be hard to add it on though.

[SCW]

The taurus fan is in now and it doesn't look too bad. I had to push the radiator forward about an inch and a half and trim the crap out of the taurus fan housing, I burned through 2 4-1/2"cutoff wheels cutting body parts to allow the condenser and radiator to fit, and to allow the fan to fit flush with the radiator without rubbing on the body.

Now I have to re-do all of the wiring and I really like the schematic Misterfubar posted up. I will modify it slightly to allow the A/C to trigger it as well as the thermostat.


Can you post some pictures or tips? I'm getting ready to do this as well, I pulled the old mechanical fan off last year and I will do about anything to not go back to it, I really like the power and economy gains. I did the heater core in the hood trick but couldn't get a good enough mounting system to suit me. Right now I have the heater core sitting on the motor mount between the oil filter and the compressor, it seems to work OK but makes underhood temps very high. A good hood vent will help and it coming soon.

I have tried the big 16" fans *listed* at 3000cfm on Ebay, but they are junk. Nowhere near that kind of CFM. I decided to go with the Taurus fan, I've already cut the original fan bearing off and re-routed the belt to give extra clearance between the compressor and radiator, maybe I have plenty of room without moving the radiator forward?

[jeeperjohn]

The taurus fan is in now and it doesn't look too bad. I had to push the radiator forward about an inch and a half and trim the crap out of the taurus fan housing, I burned through 2 4-1/2"cutoff wheels cutting body parts to allow the condenser and radiator to fit, and to allow the fan to fit flush with the radiator without rubbing on the body.

Now I have to re-do all of the wiring and I really like the schematic Misterfubar posted up. I will modify it slightly to allow the A/C to trigger it as well as the thermostat.
I am also planning to do this install soon. My fan is out of a mustang cobra but is the same as the taurus. I have cut the whole shroud off of it leaving just the round part of the shroud because it had been previously trimmed to fit another vehicle and would not have worked. I was thinking I would have to move the radiator forward. How much work is that? What else has to be modified or trimmed to move the rad forward? I noticed that if I remove the idler pulley, the belt will only go about 1/4 of the way around the alternator pulley. Did you have this issue and how did you address it?

[SCW]

I am also planning to do this install soon. My fan is out of a mustang cobra but is the same as the taurus. I have cut the whole shroud off of it leaving just the round part of the shroud because it had been previously trimmed to fit another vehicle and would not have worked. I was thinking I would have to move the radiator forward. How much work is that? What else has to be modified or trimmed to move the rad forward? I noticed that if I remove the idler pulley, the belt will only go about 1/4 of the way around the alternator pulley. Did you have this issue and how did you address it?


I removed the pulley on mine, I grabbed a sawzall and grinder and made room on the bracket for the belt to hit the alternator without touching the bracket.

[goodburbon]

I would take you guys some pictures but I really don't feel like taking this thing apart, so I will do my best to describe what I did.

1. It would make things a little bit easier to remove the battery and the airbox as a first step.
2. If you have a stock electric fan, mech fan and shroud remove them now. (you must loosen belt first)
3. Mark the radiator header where the filler neck is, you will have to cut the header to that point.
3. Remove radiator upper mount. (taking the header panel tie in with it, i.e you shouldnt have to undo any torx bolts, only 10 and 8mm bolts)
4. Remove front grille.
5. Remove stock transmission cooler if you have one.
6.Pull the radiator up out of its mounting holes and slide it and the condenser forward to see how far you can comfortably go., rub it around a bit where you want it so that the mounting pins will mark where you need to drill the new mounting holes.
7. remove radiator hoses and radiator.
8. Pull AC condenser up and out of the way. you should be able safely bend the hoses and sit it on top of the engine.
9. Re routing your belt and removing the fan bearing will gain you some clearance, If you choose to go this route do this now.
10. If you are keeping stock belt routing tighten the fan pulley back down, then cut off the studs that stick out past the nuts.
11. Drill a pair of 3/4" holes in front of the original radiator holes. (1-1/2" or so, you should see the marks you made with the radiator.)
12. move the rubber grommets from the original holes to your new lower mounting holes.
13. trim about 1/2" from the rear edge of the cross brace that the radiator sits on.
14. mount radiator and condenser into your new holes.
15. place top radiator mount panel back , sliding it onto the four studs in the header, but holding the radiator forward so that the top studs stay out of the holes.
16. Wiggle the radiator back and forth to mark the location of your new holes, also note how far you will have to cut the mount to accomidate the upper radiator hose and the fill cap.
17. remove the top radiator mount panel and drill new holes from the bottom side to the top, (note: the holes should be right on the edge of the header panel tie in bracket.)
18. remove hood latch from hood.
19. remove hood latch catch from upper radiator mount panel.
20. cut upper radiator mount panel so that it will extend about 1/2" further rearward than your radiator.

21. seperate the radiator mount panel and the header tie in bracket and notch the header tie in bracket so that you have easy access to the upper radiator mount nuts.
22. notch the front edge of the upper radiator mount so that it will fit over the condenser mounting tabs.
23. Test fit the upper radiator mount and header panel tie in and make adjustments as necessary.
24. Install the upper radiator mount and header panel tie in.
25. Test fit Taurus fan, LHD jeeps will not be able to mount the fan close enough to the drivers side of the jeep to allow the use of an aux fan, so the taurus fan should mount all the way on the passenger side of the radiator.
26. I will be using an additional 10" fan i have, so I mounted the fan and shroud horizontally, those of you who are keeping the stock aux fan should mount the fan vertically.
27. Mounted vertically the Taurus fan should only require notching and minor trimming to fit now, I purposely had you leave 1/2" of overhang on the upper and lower mounts so that you can notch the Taurus fan shroud to slide over it and use self tapping screws to hold it in place. Don't trim too much you want to have plenty of clearance between the fan blade retaining clip and the radiator.
28. Fabricate a stand off bracket from the bottom of the shroud to the front crossmember, leave room above the standoff for the stock transmission cooler if you have one.
29. mount transmission cooler between fan and crossmember.

Re-plumb tranny cooler, re-install stock aux fan, re-install grille, check your clearances, wire that baby up and test it out.

Tip: The metal you cut from the frame crossmember and the upper radiator mount bends well and makes good fan mounting tabs in combination with self tapping scews.

[txlen]

i have a idea i did on mine..i used the fan off the dodge viper and it works great!!..it'a alot thinner than the ford fan too....

[mud-dog27]

gotta love how hot heeps run ive wanted to do duel electrics but i keep hearin bout you guys cookin fans and i think id rather keep my lousy clutch fan and stock elec. fan...however to i just swapped in a 160' F thermostat seein as im gunna be pullin a trailer next week for like 4 hours and my jeep runs so much cooler now...so i figure ill keep my 160 in all summer and put my 195 back in during the winter...somethin to think bout

[goodburbon]

160 is too cool for that engine.

[markaboo929]

I can see if you put a 160* t-stat in there with a mechanical fan clutch set up,it may run cooler than the ECM needs it to be at.If you are running an electrical fan it only starts to circulate at around 160* and the fan will come on at what you set it to if you have a fan controller.I have a 160 t-stat in my Jeep and I have a pre-set fan switch to come on at 185*,I have an air/fuel ratio gauge in my set up and it does not run rich at all,the gauge sweeps very rapidly mostly towards the lean side indicating the stock ECM is in closed loop operation.My motor runs at a cool temp-the gauge,in fact usually stays a good amount under the half way point.I have a 3 row aluminum and plastic tank radiator in there too.

[Gojeep]

The higher the temp you can get the more efficient your engine is. Engineers are running the temperatures higher as materials and designs improve. For every 10F under 180F your engine wear rate doubles due to chemical reactions on the surface of the cylinder walls. Running a 160F thermostat QUADRUPLES your engine wear rate. For every mile you drive your engine wears like it has been driven four miles. The chemical reactions drop little abrasive oxide particles in the oil that eats up the bearings and everything else as well.

[GSequoia]

The higher the temp you can get the more efficient your engine is.

Well then I'm glad my red Jeep overheats!!

:laugh3:

[RaccoonJoe]

OK. I've been looking to install the Taurus e-fan on my 89 4.0L, running alongside the stock electric aux. fan. I've been told not to do it, however, because the Taurus fan draws so much power.

I was planning on wiring the low speed to the temp switch, so it will come on at a pre-set coolant temp. Wire the hi-speed switch to either the A/C or just a toggle switch. Currently my Jeep runs about 160 on the highway, 190 in town. However, the engine bay is *extremely* hot.

Does this sound like a good idea?? I can see the argument about the fan over-drawing the alternator when wheeling....should I be concerned??

[jeeperjohn]

OK. I've been looking to install the Taurus e-fan on my 89 4.0L, running alongside the stock electric aux. fan. I've been told not to do it, however, because the Taurus fan draws so much power.

I was planning on wiring the low speed to the temp switch, so it will come on at a pre-set coolant temp. Wire the hi-speed switch to either the A/C or just a toggle switch. Currently my Jeep runs about 160 on the highway, 190 in town. However, the engine bay is *extremely* hot.

Does this sound like a good idea?? I can see the argument about the fan over-drawing the alternator when wheeling....should I be concerned??
Sounds like you got the right idea. You'll have to determine how good your charging system is to see if it will handle the added current draw from the new fan. If you have a good battery and upgrade the wiring between the alternator and battery, and run sufficient wiring to the fan, you should be just fine. Gojeep's website is about the best resource I've seen for info on this subject.

[MudDawg]

Listen to GoJeep.....He is correct!!! And if you chose to believe otherwise, you are uninformed and delusional.....But cooling issues most likely aren't a problem Down Under this time of year...it just might be quite cool in GoJeep's neck of the woods.

[Slo-Sho]

Does anyone have a picture of the Ford Taurus electric fan installed on a LHD XJ?

[goodburbon]

gojeep does

[Slo-Sho]

This GOJEEP...his is a RHD, no?

[goodburbon]

sorry, yes. Got my left and right mixed up.

[goodburbon]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/goodburbon/jeep023.jpg

[goodburbon]

Ignore the wire mess, that was me getting everything out of the way for the install. It has since been cleaned up. I think....

[Slo-Sho]

Cool, thx.

[jeep/bronco]

one of my buddies had his jeep overheating for about an hour and a half steaming pouring out from under the hood and he just kept saying its a cast head it wont warp i thought he was crazy. but sure enough it didnt he ran that way for well over an hour one night 4wheeling and no problems. as far as the fans im running 1 16 from autozone and 1 from a hyunda works quite well and very cheap

[carmannj]

The higher the temp you can get the more efficient your engine is. Engineers are running the temperatures higher as materials and designs improve. For every 10F under 180F your engine wear rate doubles due to chemical reactions on the surface of the cylinder walls. Running a 160F thermostat QUADRUPLES your engine wear rate. For every mile you drive your engine wears like it has been driven four miles. The chemical reactions drop little abrasive oxide particles in the oil that eats up the bearings and everything else as well.

??? Are you sure you worded this the way you wanted to? The new materials engineers are using such as aluminum, composites, and other polymers generally dissapate heat faster than materials used in the past in order to reduce the amount of heat produced and retained by the engine. This is one of the main reasons today's little 4cyl and 6cyl engine have a lot higher power output, along with the advances in electronics and tuning of course. The hotter the spark, the more complete the burn and more efficient but you also need cool dense air for effeciency and power. Excess heat won't allow the engine to get cool air and can cause detonation in the intake plenum or manifold if it becomes to hot. Higher heat also breaks down lubricants which can lead to premature wear of all of your internal engine parts. An engine has to be warm but not to hot to run at it's peak. There is a limit to how hot an engine can be and still be efficient and continue to produce HP safely without the risk of destroying itself.