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87 Cherokee Heating Problem

ronnied1205

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Nocona, Tx
My son has a 87 cherokee w/4.0 six with heating problem. I have replaced tstat, had radiator cleaned and vatted, and still heats. It is a closed system. It has been in the shop for 2 weeks and it has the mechanics stumped. It will run for about 15 minutes and blow up. The first time it actually blew up the plastic bottle. They ran a chemical test to check blown head gasket twice and shows to be good. They said it would cost $500 plus to pull head and check to make sure its not the problem. Water pump is new, fan clutch is new. They have a vacuum system they installed to make it take the water in the system. Does anyone have any ideas. This is my first time to use this site, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ronnie
 
Hey it almost sounds like he's got the same problem I had with my 87 Cherokee... It could very well be as easy as 'burping' the system getting the air out of the cycle. I did it last night, after 2 weeks of my Jeep just sitting there and I finally got it to work... I had the same problems.

I had overheated it a few weeks back. Blew a hole in the lower radiator hose so I replaced that...It would run fine for about 15 mins, heat would be about 210... once I turned off the Jeep the coolant bottle just started building up and building up and start leaking out under the cap. The solution... burp the system.

Here's 2 useful articles from other NAXJA users I found handy and this is what I followed to get it to work...

http://208.101.10.250/~naxjaor1/forum/showthread.php?t=87953&highlight=%2Aburping

http://208.101.10.250/~naxjaor1/forum/showthread.php?t=68501&highlight=%2Aburping


at the very bottom of this page you'll find the sensor you need to unscrew...

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Engine/Basic_Sensors_Diagnostics.htm

To get to it, you can pull off that little black rubber connector and it leaves you with the nut on a post like thing... I got to it with a deep 13mm socket. The 1" deep kind...follow the write ups and see if that solves your problem. It did mine... I just backed the back tires up on some car ramps on a slighlty slanted drive way and had the front tires in the rain gutter... so it's like it was going down hill and followed what it says here...

Here's my story here..

http://208.101.10.250/~naxjaor1/forum/showthread.php?t=918312

It could just be you've got air trapped in the system still... and also search up on 'thermostat drilling'

5-90 covers it quite a bit. Essentially you drill a 1/16 hole on the top and bottom of the tstat. 180 degrees apart... this allows the system to bleed. He also mentions to make sure the holes aren't where the tstat meets the metal part on the head... it's got to have some space to breath. I hope this helps. These links above really helped me to solve my problem.

And welcome to the boards :spin1:
 
I got tired of running that same set up and continuley overheating, so I converted to an open system out of a newer XJ. I have never had a problem since. It was a direct bolt in and very easy to convert. I also ran a switch to my electric fan so I can manually control it. It is only like $130 for a new aftermarket radiator and cap. I highly recommend it, I run the crap out of my rig and leave it idling for long periods of time while winching etc...no problems! Welcome to the boards....the search feature is also very helpful when you get stumped on something. It may take a while, but you can usually find what you looking for.:cheers:
 
what they said

also, if your coolant reservoir had any pressure leaks on the cap (or anywhere), it would cause overheating. replace the reservoir, then fill the system and get all of the air out of it...

to get the air out on a 4.0, you have to park it facing downhill and run it a bit then pull the cap off the bottle and continue doing so...or the easier way is to do that and remove the temp. sensor from the back right corner of the head. then put it back in when bubbles are out.

but I'd bet you have too much air and not enough coolant. DONT let them pull the head, there is zero reason for it.
 
The temp sensor isn't that 'easy' unless you've got magical hands or they're small... it was a pain in the butt to get to with a socket wrench. Crappy location... I wouldn't unscrew the temp sensor all the way... most posts about it say to just unscrew it to finger tight... I unscrewed it all the way and coolant came out... rather quick. It's almost like a little Ol' Faithful... and don't do the coolant sensor after your Jeep has been running... it's right next to the engine block and you could really burn yourself.

You could convert to the 'open' cooling system... but i've read plenty of threads about the two cooling systems and plenty of veteren board members who are quite knowledgeable about the two like the closed system and it works just fine when it's done right... Especially once you drill the t-stat it's two breather holes...
 
Like diddy said, the closed system will work fine if it is set up correctly. I personally got tired of mesing with the system and "burping" it each time I had opened the system up. The switch to a open system came as an easy choice to me b/c I have a excellent parts source and it was an easy swap. There are tons of threads on this topic with pros and cons of either cooling system. Just do what works best for your situation and roll with it. Let us know if you get figured out.
 
I agree whole-heartedly. for me, It's open system or nothing, because setting up the closed system correctly takes too much time for it to be warranted.

the closed system is really more efficient and better in general, with the exception of when it's not working properly...which is quite often.
 
So, from the bit of experience I have, the short list of common problems for this outdated yet more efficient closed system include:
1. Burping, Fixed by modifying t-stat
2. Bad coolant bottle/cap (I'm on my last plastic bottle/cap) "third time's a charm" My fix is to go aluminum with a sight glass from Mac's $155 Yes, site states $115 $40 for the sight glass installed
3. Old hoses/ check for spring (I like 5-90's copper plumbing/w backflush tee and valve)
4. Clogged radiator/Sys. Fixed by flushing/replacing
5. Waterpump
6. ????? Any others you guys can think of?
 
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I have an 87 XJ that had major overheating problems when I bought it over 2 years ago.

I replaced the radiator which was 80% blocked, replaced the plastic bottle and cap which were no longer holding pressure, replaced ALL the coolant hoses including the heater core hoses, radiator hose..., changed the antifreeze, used distilled water with the antifreeze, 50/50 mix, replaced the fan clutch which was shot, I did do any elaborate burping of the system, installed a generic Autozone, 165 F thermostat, and then I simply left the cap off the plastic bottle (burped) and added coolant as the coolant level in the bottle dropped. Once the level stablized I put the cap on the bottle and spend the rest of last two years chasing another gremlin that turned out to be a bad TPS, that tested as good. That was 2 years ago, and I have not had a single cooling problem with it. I did install the aftermarket 3 row heavy duty copper/brass radiator since it was only like $120. (www.radiatorbarn.com I think?) I did not modify the thermostat on mine.

The 87 Renix XJs have an electric cooling fan operated by a thermal switch on the cool side, return side (drivers side) of the radiator that should turn the electric fan on when the coolant on the cool side reaches about 185 F (+/- 2 degrees F), and the cut off is about 165 F. Mine reads those temperatures on the cool side of the radiator turning the elelcltric fan on at 185 and back off at 165 F when the engine coolant at the thermostat hits and reads about 210 F.

Mine has yet to get over 215 F on a 100 degree day in Houston with the A/C running. I do not tow stuff or hit steep mountains, or really offroad in situations that cause aditional heating of the engine and transmission.

Some other things can cause a properly working cooling system to overheat or when combined can add to an overheating problem. They include a partial exhaust system blockage, lean air / fuel ratio operation, head gasket leak which can be coolant leaking into the exhaust thus the cooling system looses pressure at first allowing it to overheat and finally boil, or exhaust leaking into the coolant thus causing the pressure to rise, and an overheating transmission (T fluid...slipping transmission, oveloaded transmisson towing, burned T fluid from prior T abuse....etc) which is also cooled by the radiator (there is a small heat exchanger built into the cooler side of the radiator that the transmision fluid is pumped though to cool the Tranny fluid, thus heating the coolant), and an improperly charged A/C system can over heat the radiator since the excess heat from the condenser in an improperly charged A/C system is dumped out in front of the radiator.

Even new parts can be defective, expecially fan clutches. A leak anywhere in the cooling system even new parts, can cause it to overheat.

Also not on your list a slipping, just loose enough belt that keeps the water pump and fan clutch from running at peak RPM. This may not be a typical jeep problem due to the serpentine belt, but can be issue in other vehicles so I am listing it here for tha sake of completeness.

Now some of the items I listed above can be discussed in further detail, like what could cause an MPI Renix system to run too lean thus overheating the engine, same with the A/C system (but it is easy to isolate, just turn it off/on to see if it is causing the overheating, same with the transmission, just let it idle in park).

I had a 1976 dodge charger, SE, Lean Burn, for 4 years that had to have everything in it at peak operating performance or it would overheat. I learned more about cooling system problems and excess heat sources from that bloody beast than I care to recall. They only built them in 1976, only car, and last car built in the US with out a catalytic converter, but they were too tempermental about cooling as they aged. It was OK until it hit about 50,000 miles. After that It was constant headache keeping it from overheating. It might have been OK if it had used an electric auxiliary fan, but they were not really using them back in those days, not yet.

What happens if you let it idle with the bottle cap off?

Have they checked the fuel pressure and fuel pressure regulator (related to possibly running to lean) also the O2 sensor can be tested while the engine is running (it controls the A/F ratio)? How well does the engine operate? Also check the EGR valve!!!!

One last question, did they pull the heads, tanks, on the radiator and ROD out the tubes, or just flush it? if they did not Rod it out, it may still be scalled up and partly blocked. Try turning the engine off, and feel the radiator in different spots, or even better get an infrared temperature tester at Harbour Freight for $20 and look for cold spots (no coolant flow). There should be a smooth temperature drop from the passenger side to the drivers side of about 20 to 30 degrees F. My old, bad radiator had spots in the middle of the radiator that were like 110 F while the inlet and the outlet were nearly the same.
 
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Ecomike said:
I had a 1976 dodge charger, SE, Lean Burn, for 4 years that had to have everything in it at peak operating performance or it would overheat. I learned more about cooling system problems and excess heat sources from that bloody beast than I care to recall. They only built them in 1976, only car, and last car built in the US with out a catalytic converter, but they were too tempermental about cooling as they aged. It was OK until it hit about 50,000 miles. After that It was constant headache keeping it from overheating. It might have been OK if it had used an electric auxiliary fan, but they were not really using them back in those days, not yet.

had a '77 Newport, 400cid, lean burn, with catalitic converter-- you think they were hot without one, try keeping it cool with the added exhaust pressure of the old style converters!

biggest (in more ways than one) P.O.S. I ever owned-- got rid of it with only 30,000miles on the clock- still smelled new!

--Shorty
 
Shorty said:
had a '77 Newport, 400cid, lean burn, with catalitic converter-- you think they were hot without one, try keeping it cool with the added exhaust pressure of the old style converters!

biggest (in more ways than one) P.O.S. I ever owned-- got rid of it with only 30,000miles on the clock- still smelled new!

--Shorty

Wow, I thought they scrapped the lean burn after its first year, interesting. I recall mine was only 6 months old when the valve seals went. It was blowing smoke out the exhaust on an out of town trip. They replaced the rubber valve seals with Viton which fixed that problem.
 
Ecomike said:
Wow, I thought they scrapped the lean burn after its first year, interesting. I recall mine was only 6 months old when the valve seals went. It was blowing smoke out the exhaust on an out of town trip. They replaced the rubber valve seals with Viton which fixed that problem.

hmmmm- extreme combustion temps and rubber valve stem seals-- no wonder Chrysles needed the Gov't to pull them up by their collective boot straps (just so they could sell out to an off shore private company)

IIRC the lean burn was used for about 4yrs in various vehicle lines-- I know the Diplomat had it through '79 and it was even used in the Police package, but it was renamed the "transistorized ignition" system. I hope they came with a twenty row radiator and ten aux. cooling fans!!

--Shorty
 
Harlee&Tahoe said:
So, from the bit of experience I have, the short list of common problems for this outdated yet more efficient closed system include:
1. Burping, Fixed by modifying t-stat
2. Bad coolant bottle/cap (I'm on my last plastic bottle/cap) "third time's a charm" My fix is to go aluminum with a sight glass from Mac's $155 Yes, site states $115 $40 for the sight glass installed
3. Old hoses/ check for spring (I like 5-90's copper plumbing/w backflush tee and valve)
4. Clogged radiator/Sys. Fixed by flushing/replacing
5. Waterpump
6. ????? Any others you guys can think of?

6.clogged heater core (replace it with new to save grief)
7.cracked cap seal (buddy almost replaced the whole system before finding this)[I know it was covered in #2 but its good to know what to look for]
 
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