Cummins vs. Powerstroke

[LilRhodyXJ]

I've been looking around for a diesel for a little while and I've obviously heard good and bad things about both trucks. I signed up for the NAXJA equivelent forums for the two and I've learned a lot but can't really make a decision. I'd be looking at a 99-01 5.9L Straight Six Cummins and the 99-02 7.3L V8 Powerstroke. Just wondering if anyone on here has owned either. Thougt I'd ask on a non Ford/Dodge biased site to see the reaction I get on either truck. And please no one say Duramax..sure its a good motor and the Allison tranny is nice but I've never been a fan of GMC and IFS in a 6300lb truck set up for towing doesn't sit well with me.

side question, anyone on here own a 6.4 TT Powerstroke yet? :D

-Andrew

[AZRockRunner]

Now thats timing....
I am also in the market for the same type of truck as a tow rig.

I have a friend that is a deisel mechanic and he said that the 99 - 01 years for the ford and dodge are the best years for mileage and power.

I can tell ya that the Dodge uses less oil per oil change than the ford. Dodge=12qts and ford=16 qts but thats all I know.

Good luck in finding the answer.

[dphillips]

I signed up for the :NAXJA: equivalent forums

There are no NAXJA equivalent forums out there! :)

Last I heard, Ford was actually suing the manufacturer of their diesel engines. Don't remember why, warranty issues, or pricing issues, something like that. Not sure I would buy a vehicle from someone who is suing one of their own suppliers. Besides, cummins has been around a long time.

[stewie]

there is that saying

"I would rather be Cumming than Stroking."

[ChiXJeff]

99-01 Dodge = 2nd Gen 24v. 03.5 and newer actually have significantly more power. Something to be very concerned about here is the 53 block. There's a flaw in some castings that make them prone to cracking on the upper rear passenger side coolant passages. AFAIK, there's no way to tell if a particular block is gonna crack or not. Killer Dowel Pin shouldn't be an issue. These engines *REQUIRE* a fuel pressure gauge. The fuel lift pump is used out of spec and will fail. Catch it fast, and you can replace a $120 lift pump instead of at $1,500 injection pump. I know, I'm on my 3rd lift pump.

[Big Hank]

If you search NAXJA for Cummins, or Power Choke :laugh: you will think you are on a diesel forum. There are hundreds of opinions about Dodge and Ford within this site.

But since you asked. CUMMINS POWER!!! all the way.

01 2500 4wd Auto long bed, ext. cab, 3.55 gears<--if i towed anymore weight then i do now, I would go 3.73 or 4.10

16-17 mpg at 73 mph with Cherokee on trailer, and 14-15 with slide in camper and cherokee in tow.

Probably the number one reason for the Ford recall is that the 6.4 will start shooting flames out the exhaust. Ford says they have taken care of the problem, but if your read about how they took care of the issue, you may rethink having a 6.4 for this year.

[nyxj42]

well we all know the cummings is a good powerplant but for my money i would go the powerstroke route. the 7.3 has proven itself as a real gluton for punishment and lets face it there is no replacement for displacement, besides every cummings i've been around always sounds like they're gonna rattle themselves apart.... i'm sure its normal but it would drive me to drinkin.

[Gerr]

well I drive both at work and bought the cummins for my Dad that should tell you where I stand.

The cummins will out tow the ford, is more reliable, easyer to repair (any cummins mechanic can work on it) and for what its worth its a engine known for its longevity. the ford engie is nice and quiet but doesnt have what it takes to win me over.

[Stumpalump]

If you want one for a couple of grand go to the new truck lots and find a 97-98 chevy/GM 6.5L 1 ton trade in. They cant give them away and it's too bad because they got all the bugs out of them by then. The newer stuff just got real popular making these trucks worthless. Maybe not an option if you want newer and have the cash but as far as bang for the buck in a 1 ton this is it. 4 bolts and a hose clamp removes the aluminum intake plenum for a quick rat tail file port job to make them run strong. The reputation of the old versions of this engine is why they are found cheap so look for 97-98.

[planefixer]

A buddy of mine has a diesel performance and repair business.Literally 8 out of every 10 trucks in for repairs are Powerjokes.You couldn't pay me to own a Powerjoke - Cummins all the way :thumbup: .

[LilRhodyXJ]

Now thats timing....
I am also in the market for the same type of truck as a tow rig.

I have a friend that is a deisel mechanic and he said that the 99 - 01 years for the ford and dodge are the best years for mileage and power.

I can tell ya that the Dodge uses less oil per oil change than the ford. Dodge=12qts and ford=16 qts but thats all I know.

Good luck in finding the answer.

Thanks good luck to you as well...here's some info I've gathered over the years of loving diesel trucks... don't buy a 99 Powerstroke. That was the first year of the new bodystyle and thats when they started the recessed firewall. The 99s had so many issues with the oil pans and to replace it you have to take so much $hit apart its rediculous. Also if you go to look at a Cummins under an 01 research the 53 block. Its a notoriously bad block made in Brazil and its known to crack..the other blocks are fine and if you find a Cummins with a Mexican block your friggin' good to go.

Another thing is the 6.0 Powerstrokes (03-07) I don't trust them, haven't been around long enough, we have one at work and it already blew the turbo in under 40K. They make to much boost at idle and the turbo really doesn't want to handle it. 6.0s get piss poor gas mileage for a diesel yet they sound nasty..making 570lb-ft at 2,000 rpms and full boost.

not quite the fairest pull ever but worth the watch... funny part is thats a 4Bt not even a 5.9
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gh9sMxVVVpw

Thanks for the help so far guys, keep it cummin :D

[LilRhodyXJ]

99-01 Dodge = 2nd Gen 24v. 03.5 and newer actually have significantly more power. Something to be very concerned about here is the 53 block. There's a flaw in some castings that make them prone to cracking on the upper rear passenger side coolant passages. AFAIK, there's no way to tell if a particular block is gonna crack or not. Killer Dowel Pin shouldn't be an issue. These engines *REQUIRE* a fuel pressure gauge. The fuel lift pump is used out of spec and will fail. Catch it fast, and you can replace a $120 lift pump instead of at $1,500 injection pump. I know, I'm on my 3rd lift pump.

Yep I've heard about that block and I've done my research, today I'm going to look at an 01 extended cab short bed with 90K on it. Good looking truck, there weren't too many 01s with the 53 block so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Also I'm thinking of throwing in the three gauge pod right off the bat, so fuel pressure and boost will be taken care of.

Do you really like yours, and would you buy it again if you had too?

-Andrew

[ChiXJeff]

Yep I've heard about that block and I've done my research, today I'm going to look at an 01 extended cab short bed with 90K on it. Good looking truck, there weren't too many 01s with the 53 block so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Also I'm thinking of throwing in the three gauge pod right off the bat, so fuel pressure and boost will be taken care of.

Do you really like yours, and would you buy it again if you had too?

-Andrew
Ayup. I'd buy another.

I've got a triple gauge set on my A-pillar (fuel pressure, oil pressure {dash gauge LIES!} and combo boost/EGT.) One of the guys I work with thought it was a factory install. Don't need the trans temp, I don't drive a slush box.

[LilRhodyXJ]

Ayup. I'd buy another.

I've got a triple gauge set on my A-pillar (fuel pressure, oil pressure {dash gauge LIES!} and combo boost/EGT.) One of the guys I work with thought it was a factory install. Don't need the trans temp, I don't drive a slush box.

What set up did you use, Autometer gauges I assume? I would like a standard but there are non around here and I go to school in the busy city so I'd probably go insane. Do you have any mods done?

-Andrew

[ChiXJeff]

I've got a Westach set. They match the factory gauges pretty well, in an Autometer pod. Most of the stuff I got from Geno's Garage. I had to get the oil pressure gauge and sender direct from Westach. The only other mods are Vulcan Performance lift pump relocation and Big Line kit and a Draw Straw.

Re: oil pressure. There's a firmware "upgrade" for the engine computer that makes the gauge LIE. Rather than fix a sensor issue, the gauge will read some fixed value until it gets an out-of-spec reading. In short, not to be relied on.

[LilRhodyXJ]

There's no one to stick up for Powerstrokes? Damn I guess I know what to buy... :D



-AR

edit: has anyone ever tried to get a 4bt Cummins into an XJ..I've seen them in scouts and land cruisers

[BRIANHO13]

I have an 02 powerstroke and love it.

[DrMoab]

Well Im glad to see that at least 90% of people here have half a brain.

I own an 05 Dodge CTD and love it to death.

Being in the car hauling business for a long time I saw a lot of big coops who bought Fords because they could get great deals on them if they bought them in bulk. After they realized that maintenance was killing them a lot of them sold the Fords like hot potato's and bought Dodges instead.

[SCW]

I worked on a large farm with many trucks. We had a few of each with exception to the Chevy, we only had one Chevy with the Duramax.

My thoughts-

Ford- Best frame/body. It can take a large load every day and be abused like a red-headed stepchild and come back for more. I don't like the Powerstroke though, too many issues between the motor and trans.

Dodge- The engine make the truck worth driving, because the body sure as hell don't. My brother in law had one with 320K miles when he pulled a load a cattle about 400 miles. The other guy hauling with him had a Ford PS with about 80K miles, the Cummins got better fuel economy and out pulled the Ford on the hills. Neither was modified. That Cummins engine now has closer to 1/2 million miles (without major work, it's an old 12-valve) and is on it's 3rd truck. The motor is worth the truck, period.

Chevy- Great truck for putting a lot of road miles on. Terrible ground clearance and bad load capacity, weak front suspension (imo). Engine is fantastic though. So is the tranny. Nice plush ride in comparison to the Ford.


Myself I have owned two Fords (a half-ton and a 3/4-ton) and three Chevies (again, 2 half-tons and 3/4-ton). I loved the Ford 3/4-ton and although the Chevies rode nicer, I didn't buy a truck to have a car with a big trunk. I have a Chev 1/2-ton Suburban now and have to remind myself it's really just a big station wagon.....it's not really a truck so I should expect it to be one.

[DrMoab]

Dodge- The engine make the truck worth driving, because the body sure as hell don't.
I hear this all the time and I always come back with "show me an example"

No one can. Can you?

[SCW]

I hear this all the time and I always come back with "show me an example"

No one can. Can you?


My last Ford (the 3/4ton) had 185K miles when I sold it. Suspension was still tight and the doors all worked fine. My Chevies have all been (going) bad after 50K miles. The Dodge trucks we had lasted somewhere inbetween, but they ended up with squeeky doors that wouldn't shut right, rattle in the dash (like my Jeep) and poor trim inside. I really think that's a feature with pretty much any Dodge and it may be attributed to 'Hencho en Mexico'. No one single thing that was a 'deal-breaker', but annoying anyway. Like I said, my brother in laws Cummins is now on it's 3rd truck, but I don't know that any truck should be expected to last over 400K miles. The original truck literally fell apart aff the frame. He finally trashed the bed and built a flat bed, but the cab wasn't in much better shape by then. My friends Chevy lasted about 80K miles and the bed had to be trashed and hinges rebuilt.

I don't think you'd every have a problem the way you use your truck, Ryan. It sees road use and trailers, my BIL and friends on the farm got hammered each and every day with dirt road about 80% of the time to boot. Good testing ground for trucks.

[Prepmech]

I also have an '02 7.3L Powerstroke, and love it.

On our construction job sites almost all of the trucks are Fords. There are only a few Dodges, and even fewer Chevrolets. I asked the owner of our concrete contractor and he said the Fords hold up better on the job sites, and they have the biggest crew-cabs. The crew-max dodge isn't an option because you can't get an 8' bed with it.

The most common with the Fords is the steering stabilizer hangs down too low and gets bent on rocks. As soon as that happens, we just remove them.

Stay away from the 6.0L powerstrokes, my brother just spent $6K replacing the cracked heads on his.

[Burton58]

i used to work for dodge and have driven alot of the diesels. i now work for ford and obviously have been in my fair share of powerstrokes. my personal opinion is that the dodge drives much smoother, has more power and is much quieter. Prepmech is right about the 6.0's, they are terrible. we have the new 08 superdutys as well and they seem to be even worse. also the maintenance costs on them are up substantially. i have not owned either truck but that is just my take on driving both vehicles around daily.

[Rev Den]

Cummins.

Unfortunately you have to get a Dodge to get it....not worth the trouble.

Get the Ford.

Doc...examples? Sure...come to this area and I will be happy to have you talk to my buddy that owns a plumbing company, they did not replace 2 year old Dodges just for the heck of it.

Rev

[DrMoab]

Cummins.

Unfortunately you have to get a Dodge to get it....not worth the trouble.

Get the Ford.

Doc...examples? Sure...come to this area and I will be happy to have you talk to my buddy that owns a plumbing company, they did not replace 2 year old Dodges just for the heck of it.

Rev
You own a Land Rover...your opinion means nothing. :D

[Rev Den]

You own a Land Rover...your opinion means nothing. :D

I really do love you.

Someday we gotta drink together, I predict hugging. :D

Rev

[GSequoia]

One thing I have to say is for all those that say "yeah well my cousin's friend's brother works at a diesel shop and they see a bajaillian Fords!" is that I don't trust this. Reason being there are more Fords out there being used than Dodges. Talk about fleet usage the vast majority uses Fords. Generally when I see Dodge or Chevy diesel trucks (well trucks in generall) it's private owned.

Now, that said my dream truck would be a Ford body, Dodge engine, and I'm not sure about the transmission (it'd be manual though, don't trust any of their autos). With that not happening if I were ready to buy a Diesel now it would be a tough call new, i would most likely lean toward Ford because I don't like Chrysler fit and finish much, used price would be a big factor in Dodge verses Ford.

I do not trust Chevrolet ;)

[DrMoab]

used price would be a big factor in Dodge verses Ford.
hehe...yup there is a reason you can buy ford trucks used cheap and Dodges keep the resale value.

[LilRhodyXJ]

Well I looked at two Cummins and a PS today. The Cummins deffinitly rode better then the PS and the interior was much more friendly. The Cummins felt like it had more power off the line and was a lot louder, sounded damn good. The first Cummins was leaking some oil, throwing a code P 1693 (did the three key turn check ;-) ), and two of the nuts on the front sway bar looked to be angle grinded off. The salesman was a complete ass with no personality so I won't be going back there. The second Cummins I'm in love with. 89,000 miles..under carriage and body are friggin' flawless , 00, Silver, ad said it was and auto but it was a 5spd, extended cab, short box, with a 2 gauge pod (Boost/EGT and fuel Pressure) Laramie w/leather and wood grain and the 55 Block no 53! The 5spd was fun to drive and the turbo sounded mean "blowing off" when you shifted. The PS was nice too but I'm deffinitly leaning toward the Cummins!

-Andrew

[BlueCuda]

To people that have never owned a diesel before but are looking there is something to consider that I think is important. If you really plan on towing with it do not judge its speed or quickness when unloaded. My 2000 is slow, really slow. However you can tow 10K with it and its not a whole lot slower lol, the cummins is for sure happier with a load behind it. Mine will tow my dads 8000lb enclosed trailer at 70 no problem, even if the trailer has two completly blown out tires on one side lol.

I own two cummins truck but fixing to shed the 2000 becuase I have a company truck and its just not needed. If I need to tow something or haul something I will just use my old 92 with 300K on it.

[FarmerMatt]

The wife has an 02 Excursion with a bombed 7.3 & is pushing 200,000 miles. I wouldn't trade the reliability of this car for the world. It's still on the stock trans as well.

I've got an 06 Cheby with the D-max. I'm pushing close to 70K & I'm still loving life.

Between the Dodge & Ford of comparable years (IMO) it's a coin toss. Both motors are proven & both auto tranny's are "reported" to be weak. My experience with the 02 7.3 has been nothing, but favorable.

[LilRhodyXJ]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=222581350&dealer_id=616860&car_year=2001&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=DODGE&transmission=&model=RAM25002WD&distance=100&make2=&address=02879&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=20000&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=4+wheel+drive&engine=&fuel=Diesel&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=37

Heavily considering buying that Cummins.. I drove it today and it was in such nice shape in and out, underneath too! 4wd worked flawlessly and the thing seemed run perfect. I tried the key trick too and got no engine codes.

I'm going to look at a few more truck tomorrow but right now its between that and the same truck but in a 5spd


-Andrew

[TXRIVERRAT]

The 7.3 ps's are pretty stout and reliable, but the Cummins imo is better. First of all, it's a much simpler, longer tested design (inline diesels been around forever). You don't see any "v" blocks in big trucks or heavy equip, also how about our beloved 4.0l and it's longevity?

That being said, I am on my 2nd Cummins, an 01 auto 4x4 with 182k on it that I bought new and the tranny's are THE weak point in them. I just spent $4k (2 weeks ago) having a tranny custom built with DTT tc and valve body and absolutely love the truck more than ever now.

Here's another; my brothers, uncles cousins friend story.....A friend (fellow XJ'er who I've known 20 yrs) works currently on the diesel team at a local Ford house and absolutely would not own any of the ps's except MAYBE the 7.3, as a matter of fact he's been trying like hell to buy my truck from me and I won't sell.

One last tidbit that no one has mentioned, the F450, F550, F650 trucks from Ford all come with the Cummins engine. That says alot to me!!!

[BlueCuda]

One last tidbit that no one has mentioned, the F450, F550, F650 trucks from Ford all come with the Cummins engine. That says alot to me!!!

Actually its just the F650 that has the 5.9 Cummins in it as an option I believe. The F650 is a big step up from the F550 its a different truck all together. I F450-F550 use the 7.3 or 6.0 still.

This is just oberservation, but I am %99 sure I am right :).

[SCW]

The 7.3 ps's are pretty stout and reliable, but the Cummins imo is better. First of all, it's a much simpler, longer tested design (inline diesels been around forever). You don't see any "v" blocks in big trucks or heavy equip, also how about our beloved 4.0l and it's longevity?


Sure they do. Mack used to (don't know if they still do) make a V8 diesel and I used to drive an ancient cement truck with a V8 of unknown origins. You won't get very far saying the V8 isn't a good platform.... The I6 just has flatter torque.

[DrMoab]

Sure they do. Mack used to (don't know if they still do) make a V8 diesel and I used to drive an ancient cement truck with a V8 of unknown origins. You won't get very far saying the V8 isn't a good platform.... The I6 just has flatter torque.
I dunno...ask any trucker who has ever driven a V8. They are the worst POS on the roads. No power, have to wind them up to go anywhere.

I have been around several and an inline six works better hands down.

[LilRhodyXJ]

Actually its just the F650 that has the 5.9 Cummins in it as an option I believe. The F650 is a big step up from the F550 its a different truck all together. I F450-F550 use the 7.3 or 6.0 still.

This is just oberservation, but I am %99 sure I am right :).

F-450's don't use 6.slows anymore, they have flame throwing 6.4L twin turbo motors:D. If you dont know what I mean, research the recall on the new 6.4 PS, you'll get a little laugh.

Andrew

[LilRhodyXJ]

Doc Moab do you have anthing done to your CTD?

-Andrew

[DrMoab]

Doc Moab do you have anthing done to your CTD?

-Andrew
No. Its bone stock.

I don't want to mess with it till the warranty is up.

[LilRhodyXJ]

No. Its bone stock.

I don't want to mess with it till the warranty is up.
Yea I hear ya, you just put the upgrade money into the XJ right? :D


I wish I could afford an 05 like yours I think the new line of Dodge 2500/3500 trucks looks awesome.


-Andrew

[DrMoab]

Yea I hear ya, you just upgrade money into the XJ right? :D
Ha! I wish that was the problem. Truck payment keeps me from affording anything for either the truck or the jeep.

[Clint]

I have a 98 Dodge quadcab CTD 12valve wth a 5 speed. The truck has 240,000 miles and still runs and pulls great. The truck is bone stock except for a 4 inch exhaust. I get 15-16 pulling my Jeep and I get 17+ pulling my boat. The interior is in great shape, no squeaks or rattles. The body does have some rust. But it is all because the previous owner ran into alot of small things and never patched the dings and paint chips which allowed it to rust.

[olivedrabcj7]

is this a joke? if so......good one!





Powerstroke all the way. :peace:

[MudDawg]

My poor deranged boss insists on Fords....he has had 3 different trucks all ford...7.3 with auto....every one of them killed the trans at least once...one of them twice....I never thought you could snap a input shaft and sun gear housing like that....anyway....they all have had problems with injector seal leaks...his '02 reeks so bad from fuel it will make you hurl. And the unit bearing hubs are garbage....his were worn out at 70K....

One of our vendors (an electrician) has an original Dodge/Cummins...first production....original engine with a bazillion miles....it won't die....it rattles, smokes and sounds like crap....but it keeps going....the frame has broke and been patched so many times it looks like someone built the front half from little pieces....somebody kill it.

The son of a longtime friend has a 2500 hd duramax 4x4 with a few tweeks...(can you say Gale Banks?) that is absolutely the baddest pickup I have ever seen in person....it will KILL my MJ heads up...