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Oil filters short vs. long

B

Bzamora

NAXJA Forum User
Location
WA
I got into a bit of an argument with a NAPA counterperson this morning. After reading the horror stories about Fram filters I decided to buy NAPA Gold filters instead, so I went in and asked for one for my '99 XJ. She came back with the short filter (Fram PH-16 equivalent, can't remember the NAPA Gold #). I said I wanted the longer one, the PH-8A equivalent. She insisted my application needed to use the shorter filter, at which I said I've been using the longer one for years without a problem. I finally left the store with what I wanted (NAPA 1515), but I can't help but wonder if there's a reason why the books specify the shorter one. I've got 4x4 and auto trans, and don't see any clearance problems. Any thoughts?
 
camarors8992 said:
They just go by what the book says.
Click to expand...

Probably true. The books usually only have 1 size listing for each manufacture. Kind of a cya think is my guess. Might ask GrimmJeeper, He's a Napa Guy, Manger I think :dunno:

Rob $.02
 
Been using the longer one on my 99 XJ every oil change since I bought it. Same thing on my 94 ZJ when I still had it (had the 4.0l)

Have had absolutely ZERO problems.

They're just going off what is in the book. No big deal, you won't kill your engine by using the longer filter :)
 
Wix 51515 (same as your Napa fileter) for me every time. No problems at all. I did have a Hastings filter get pretty siezed up once on me though.
 
I still laugh about the fact that people actually think there is something wrong with Fram filters. If there is I would speculate someone doesn't know how to put a filter on correctly!
 
It might just be as simple as the manufacturer thinks the shorter is adequate for the engine, and thus stocks only one filter for production, even if your particular application could use the longer one. They don't bother to figure it out or update the info to the vendors, the smaller one works fine, leave it smaller. If people start thinking the longer filter works such and such motor, you might get people putting longer filters in vehicles that it will extend below the bottom of the vehicle and risk getting torn off.
 
floyd said:
I still laugh about the fact that people actually think there is something wrong with Fram filters. If there is I would speculate someone doesn't know how to put a filter on correctly!
Click to expand...

I spent most of college running a "quick lube" type place. The only filters I ever saw fail were all Fram, or one of Fram's comercial labels. By fail, I mean I saw one blow apart in the parking lot.:explosion

We used Wix (re-labels) but customers would bring in their own filters from time to time.
 
In college I worked at Penske (4 years, 20 hours a week). 90% of the time we used Fram. Never had a problem with a single one and probably 60-70% of our customers came to us for their regular maintanence. I've also spent most of my life around performance cars, specifically quarter mile racing and road racing. Many, many drivers/mechanics use Fram on their (expensive) engines and have no problems what so ever. Our last XJ had 296K on it when we bought our 2001. Used nothing but Fram on it from day one and loved the fact I put almost 300K on a vehicle before getting a new one. Experiences vary, don't they?
 
I tried to get a Penzoil Lubestop to put one of the longer filters on once. He said that the longer filter couldn't handle the pressure in our oil system as well as the short:explosion . Don't know how accurate that is.
 
Just have to figure this out: 296000 miles / 2000 miles between oil changes = 148. Almost 150 Fram filters (on just that one vehicle) and no explosions. I must be living right!
 
try using the napa gold 1515. my dad used the fram and and napa ones, he has 350,000 miles on the mopar 318. the ph8a and napa 1515 are both ford filters. but they are one quart and the mopar ones are 1/2 quart. they fit. my 99 has plenty of room.
 
BigG said:
. . . . He said that the longer filter couldn't handle the pressure in our oil system as well as the short:explosion . Don't know how accurate that is.
Click to expand...

From the WIX web site ( http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp ) He may be right, it was news to me.

And place with real good prices ( http://www.fleetfilter.com ) mentioned earlier in another post.

+++++++++++++++
LONG OIL FILTER

Part Number: 51515
UPC Number: 765809515154
Principal Application: Chrysler Family of Cars/Trucks (57-70), Ford Family of Cars/Trucks (57-00), Mazda Trucks (94-00), Toyota Landcruiser (71-96) - (Two Quart version is 51773)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 5.178
Outer Diameter: 3.660
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=13/23
Burst Pressure-PSI: 270
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

++++++++++++++++

SHORT OIL FILTER

Part Number: 51626
UPC Number: 765809516267
Principal Application: Dodge Monaco (91), Eagle (88-92), Jeep (87-93)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.812
Outer Diameter Top: 3.663
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 20X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 370
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 25

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200
 
I use a Filter from a ford (?) pick up i beleive. A couple of years ago i went in to buy some parts including a new oil filter and the manager told me that it would fit, and let me have a little more oil too. I tried it, it fit, no leaks. Been using them up until a little while ago when i gave in and went to superlube becuase i didn't feel like lying in the snow.

It's an M81 or an M8 i believe. I'm not entireley sure, I'll have to check again.

91 Laredo. This might be because under the hood, there is a huge sticker saying: Warning! New thred Size on Oil Filter or something anyway, so i don't know if other people have that sticker or not...
 
Is it O.K. to use the larger filter if you still have the vertical mount? I tried to turn my mount horizontal but with the older sytle mount it doesn't work. The roll pin or whatever that sticks out of the block won't allow the turn.
 
Lew360 said:
Is it O.K. to use the larger filter if you still have the vertical mount? I tried to turn my mount horizontal but with the older sytle mount it doesn't work. The roll pin or whatever that sticks out of the block won't allow the turn.
Click to expand...

Depends on what year model you have. Year?

The older ones had a metric thread, the newer ones are US thread. That is the only real difference between them.

See this thread for details:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=905310&highlight=filter+adapter

But if you have gotten past the thread issue, or have a newer model with the US thread, then yes. Mine is an 87 Renix and I have the larger filter on mine in the vertical direction, and no problems. Just don't use a fram filter, their anti drainback valves are not reliable enough for a vertical filter, and they can cause dry starts. I am using the K&N filter.
 
Last edited:
An awesome site for filter comparisons:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

This comparison has been out there for years. See the overview section for greater detail as to why to stay away from Fram. These are poorly and cheaply made filters and his conclusions were backed up by an Allied Signal engineer:

Russell,
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.

I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.

I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.

I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing bullshit.

If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination
of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.

Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can
quote me anytime.
Click to expand...
 
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