I just threw up in my mouth

[Bdiddy11]

I just go this email from a co-worker with these following pictures of a Montebello school in Cali...protestors...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Bdiddy11/gay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Bdiddy11/pinata.jpg

Seriously... who brings a pinata to a protest rally?

This is just sickening... the nerve...

Way to represent and get more legal citizens to 'want to help your illegal relatives' have it easier to be accepted into the States as a legal citizen...

[Gil BullyKatz]

Dude... it's California.

Who cares what they do?

I worry more about the dems reinstating gun bans than clueless teeny beaners getting a rise out of people who do not own tangle-free panties.

You've got issues...

Did you lost a job or woman to a beaner?

:rattle:

[ayoung]

that just completely reinforced all of my opinions of the illegals

[DansGreyMj]

Seriously... who brings a pinata to a protest rally?


Beaners





Man, and these people really want to become legalized citizens, if somebody were to fly there flag upside down, there would probably be a deadly riot and we have to sit back and watch them desicrate this country because the polititians in this country are a bunch of XXXXXXs.

[MistWolf]

I wonder if they realize that flying the US flag upside is a sign of distress- like sending out an SOS. Also wonder if they realize the US flag does not represent the US government- it represents all the folks who have worked to make this country a better place

[bigdaddyjlove]

I wonder if they realize that flying the US flag upside is a sign of distress- like sending out an SOS.

Thanks, you beat me to this.

Distress is exactly right. As for not worriing about Cali, in the last 50 years, the rest of the country has followed Califorinia's lead quite often.

[Fergie]

Dude... it's California.

Who cares what they do?

I worry more about the dems reinstating gun bans than clueless teeny beaners getting a rise out of people who do not own tangle-free panties.

You've got issues...

Did you lost a job or woman to a beaner?

:rattle:
Every time I read your sig, I think about Boogie Nights, and the Mexican dude telling Heather Graham at the end..."I have a small dick."

No clue why...

[traitor5150]

Ok yeah lets come here illegally then protest because??? There here illegally and arent being treated fairly.... Hmm that makes sense. The govenator should have had them all arrested then deported..

[Gil BullyKatz]

It's amazing how easy some of you are influenced or upset.

I'm a 2 tour veteran and have faught, gotten shot at and sacrificed in the name of that flag.

Remember that the constitution gives us all the freedom of speech...

It applies to everyone including little brown teenagers and big white klansmen.

There's american soldiers getting their limbs blown off overseas and you guys are more upset about this shit...

sad.

[zachxj01]

let em all stay in california in 20 years it will break off from us and be a nice island for them lol

[bfred]

I find it pretty ironic that these people are defacing the flag of the country they are trying to become part of. Do they think this shows their cause in a positive way? BTW...don't we have laws in this country about how our flag can be displayed? Shouldn't the people involved be arrested for this? Maybe even the people who run this school for allowing our flag to be displayed like this on their property...

[Fergie]

I find it pretty ironic that these people are defacing the flag of the country they are trying to become part of. Do they think this shows their cause in a positive way? BTW...don't we have laws in this country about how our flag can be displayed? Shouldn't the people involved be arrested for this? Maybe even the poeple who run this school for allowing our flag to be displayed like this on their property...
Says a man from IL...



How are you gun laws there BTW?

[Flava Flav]

It applies to every AMERICAN.


FIFY since it was a bit off

[Bdiddy11]

Gil, I hope this makes you happy...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Bdiddy11/sniper.jpg

Katie Couric , while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:"What do you feel when you shoot a Terrorist?"

The Marine shrugged and replied,"A slight recoil."


Now about the flag issue...

[Gil BullyKatz]

FIFY since it was a bit off

You DO realize that even teenagers born of illegal parents on this soil are citizens right?

Those kids are definately in the wrong but they are still Americans if born here.

Hell...

Being born here is no guarantee of being American.

How many Americans have been arrested since 911 with connections to terror cells?

John Walker... Nice white kid right?

Being a good or bad American has nothing to do with where you are born or your legal status. It's how you contribute to our society and way of life.

I would say that not honoring our Constitution and our bill of rights would be a good start to not being a good American.

Are YOU a good American?

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

[Bdiddy11]

Who says to be a 'good patriot' you need to serve in the armed forces?

Wikipedia... A patriot is someone who feels patriotism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism), support for their country.

Patriotism...
Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language) patria < Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) patrida, πατρίδα), by individuals and groups. The 'fatherland' (or 'motherland') can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation) and/or a nation-state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state). Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation. Patriotism is closely associated with nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism), and is often used as a synonym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonym) for it. Strictly speaking, nationalism is an ideology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology) - but it often promotes patriotic attitudes as desirable and appropriate. (Both nationalist political movements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics), and patriotic expression, may be negative towards other people's 'fatherland').
Patriotism has ethical connotations: it implies that the 'fatherland' (however defined) is a moral standard or moral value in itself. The expression my country right or wrong - perhaps a misquotation of the American naval officer Stephen Decatur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Decatur), but also attributed to Carl Schurz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schurz) - is the extreme form of this belief. Patriotism also implies that the individual should place the interests of the nation above their personal and group interests. In wartime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War), the sacrifice may extend to their own life. Death in battle for the fatherland is the archetype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype) of extreme patriotism.


Note that it says 'may extend to their own life.' You can still be a good patriot by not being one who 'serves' their country in the armed forces. There are plenty of other ways to serve and support your country. Do you really expect a middle aged single father to leave his 7 kids to go off to war so he can show his true patriotism? I'm proud of those who serve our country. I support them. Because I don't want to leave my wife and go off to war, does that make me a bad person? I think not. Is the war in the Middle East a strain on our economy and lives of fellow U.S. citizens? Of course. Is the problem of illegal immigration a strain on our economy? You better believe it. Which will have a longer lasting effect on our economy? I don't see how what they are doing is contributing to our society by disgracing OUR flag in such a way... They are using and abusing our society.

[ECKSJAY]

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

:wave:

[bfred]

I had to go look up the codes involved with displaying are flag now...apparently just a code to show repect for are flag- not punishable by law. When flown upside down- sign of extreme distress. When flown with a flag of another nation, they are to be flown on seperate staffs at the same height during times of peace. I guess flying thier flag above ours can be seen as a sign of aggresion.(and yes Illinois gun laws suck....but I still have mine!)

[Flava Flav]

You DO realize that even teenagers born of illegal parents on this soil are citizens right?

Those kids are definately in the wrong but they are still Americans if born here.

Are YOU a good American?

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

yes i know how the system works

the key word in the second sentence is IF

i feel as though i am a good american

and you dont have to serve to be a good american or even a patriot

not saying that i dont believe in serving, i am grateful for everyone that chooses to serve so i dont have to

[DaffyXJ]

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

:wave1:

[ayoung]

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/smilies/wave.gif

And just like they have the legal right to disrepect this country, i have the legal right to think they are idiots and dislike them

[Prowler]

:wave1:

And just like they have the legal right to disrepect this country, i have the legal right to think they are idiots and dislike them

WRONG!
Go outside and walk up to the first beaner you see and tell them what you think. Guess what is gonna happen. Either will attack you and you will "self defend" yourself and still you will be in the wrong because he is the minority, OR he will go and tell our buddies in the law systems and courts and guess what, we are all a bunch of racist then.

Screw the beaners, they took things to far, and ruined it for the good ones. I have no respect for them. And screw "they were born here crap" If they want to be American by birth then they better damn well respect our Country and our customs!

:piratefla

[Gil BullyKatz]

Who says to be a 'good patriot' you need to serve in the armed forces?

I didn't...

But true patiotism is sooooo much more believable when observing the actions of people that forego their safety and lives in order to uphold and maintain the freedoms that we all enjoy.

There is so much more to being a good American than buying a bs yellow ribbon sticker to place on your car.

Understanding and living by the ideals of our constitution is one of the components of being a good American.

We may not like or disagree with some of the contents or interpretations of our consitution but it's there nonetheless.

[GSequoia]

God damnit I'm sick of seeing all this mass paranoia because the brown people are here...

The bill or rights guarantees free speech. The bill of rights doesn't state that you have to be a citizen to have those rights and you shouldn't. Visitors to our country should be allowed the same basic human rights that citizens have, it's what separates us from shitty countries. These people were exercising their rights.

Burning, disrespecting, dishonoring, and otherwise molesting the flag is a form of voicing your protests, it is not illegal to do so and never should be. While I have never been in a situation where I've wanted to burn a flag I should have the right to do so. For example, let's say the national government decided to round up all Muslims and put them in camps, I'd be on the front lines of a protest and I'd burn a flag to show just how disgusted I was with the United States government (and if it were a California law instead of a US law I'd burn a California flag).

By the way, for all of you who are mad at the school or district don't be. It wasn't the district that changed the flag. And for those of you who say they should've gone and changed it back I'll dare you to walk into a large crowd of people protesting and take down their protest material. I wouldn't, too much of a potentially hot situation. (I'm not saying that they are violent in nature, just that any time you have a large group of people there is always going to be the contingent of possible violent people.)

There are much larger things to worry about right now than this. If you could remove the blinders you'd realize that perhaps somebody wants you to focus on this so you don't see something else....

[srimes]

God damnit I'm sick of seeing all this mass paranoia because the brown people are here...

The bill or rights guarantees free speech. The bill of rights doesn't state that you have to be a citizen to have those rights and you shouldn't. Visitors to our country should be allowed the same basic human rights that citizens have, it's what separates us from shitty countries. These people were exercising their rights.


Actually, the bill of rights only applies to U.S. citizens, and rightly so. We do extend other basic courtesies to visitors because we are a civilized nation, but they are not garunteed those rights by our constitution. The most obvious example is the right to bear arms. This does not apply to visitors, and rightly so.

I think that those who are hear legally should be alowed to protest, even if it is in bad taste. But those who are here illegally and protest should be rounded up and shipped back home like the dumbass ingrates they are.

[RichP]

God damnit I'm sick of seeing all this mass paranoia because the brown people are here...

The bill or rights guarantees free speech. The bill of rights doesn't state that you have to be a citizen to have those rights and you shouldn't. Visitors to our country should be allowed the same basic human rights that citizens have, it's what separates us from shitty countries. These people were exercising their rights.

Burning, disrespecting, dishonoring, and otherwise molesting the flag is a form of voicing your protests, it is not illegal to do so and never should be. While I have never been in a situation where I've wanted to burn a flag I should have the right to do so. For example, let's say the national government decided to round up all Muslims and put them in camps, I'd be on the front lines of a protest and I'd burn a flag to show just how disgusted I was with the United States government (and if it were a California law instead of a US law I'd burn a California flag).

By the way, for all of you who are mad at the school or district don't be. It wasn't the district that changed the flag. And for those of you who say they should've gone and changed it back I'll dare you to walk into a large crowd of people protesting and take down their protest material. I wouldn't, too much of a potentially hot situation. (I'm not saying that they are violent in nature, just that any time you have a large group of people there is always going to be the contingent of possible violent people.)

There are much larger things to worry about right now than this. If you could remove the blinders you'd realize that perhaps somebody wants you to focus on this so you don't see something else....

Oh, damn :eek: , my mistake, I didn't realize it was about brown people I thought we were discussing illegal immigrants, aliens, Illegal border hoppers, illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes but are quick on public dole.

[bfred]

I'm sorry, but i fail to see how the war on terrorisim and securing our borders are not related to each other, when people from another country can walk freely into our country by the hundreds everyday. Every once in a while you'll hear about how the Department of Homeland Security catches a terrorist trying to enter the US on a plane. This would have to be one of the stupidist poeple on the face of the planet. If you were on the "no fly" list, why would you even try this? just go to Mexico or one of the South American countries were no one will care, and walk right in! Hell, maybe the Department of homeland Security should put all the illegal immigrants on the "no fly" list! that otta keep em out!!!

[Rocketman]

How many of you patriots have actually served in any of our armed forces?

:wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1:

For my 6 years in the NAVY. AND the previous conflict, Viet Nam.

Flying the flag upside down is more than a protest and not one that will gather either respect or sympathy for any cause. Does it upset me? Somewhat, as I think there are better ways to try to rally for a cause.

However, more disturbing is the violent reaction to their actions. Perhaps we should ask ourselves if getting twisted over a flag display is the best application of our anger or frustration.

The alien situation in this country is not only hot but very very complicated. It's not about patriotism, or terrorism. It IS about MONEY, and many people, and companies not wanting to spend much of it for labor. Everyone wants to make more and spend less. GREED is the reason for the huge illegal population, nothing more, and in my opinion, nothing worse!

[RichP]

:wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1:

For my 6 years in the NAVY. AND the previous conflict, Viet Nam.

Flying the flag upside down is more than a protest and not one that will gather either respect or sympathy for any cause. Does it upset me? Somewhat, as I think there are better ways to try to rally for a cause.

However, more disturbing is the violent reaction to their actions. Perhaps we should ask ourselves if getting twisted over a flag display is the best application of our anger or frustration.

The alien situation in this country is not only hot but very very complicated. It's not about patriotism, or terrorism. It IS about MONEY, and many people, and companies not wanting to spend much of it for labor. Everyone wants to make more and spend less. GREED is the reason for the huge illegal population, nothing more, and in my opinion, nothing worse!

I can think of no faster way to alienate both service and ex service people than to fly the flag upside down even if your cause is just. It just flat out pisses us off and can put some into a rage.

[Gil BullyKatz]

However, more disturbing is the violent reaction to their actions. Perhaps we should ask ourselves if getting twisted over a flag display is the best application of our anger or frustration.

My point exactly...

Evidently... It's easier and more convenient for the easily impressed to get upset over a flag being flown upside down than a couple of Blackwater employees hanging upside down from a bridge.

[Beej]

And screw "they were born here crap" If they want to be American by birth then they better damn well respect our Country and our customs!

:piratefla The values you are reflecting with your rhetoric are those of a dictatorship, not the United States of America, land of the free.

The whole point of your country is to promote independent thought and a free marketplace.

Respecting your country and customs is neither an established American value, or a tenet of democracy.

Holding those points/values as a necessity for "Americanism" is precisely what has transformed your country from a democracy, which it originally was, to a bipartisan oligarchy, which it currently is, and will keep you on the path to a dictatorship/monarchy...

[bfred]

:wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1::wave1:




The alien situation in this country is not only hot but very very complicated. It's not about patriotism, or terrorism. It IS about MONEY, and many people, and companies not wanting to spend much of it for labor. Everyone wants to make more and spend less. GREED is the reason for the huge illegal population, nothing more, and in my opinion, nothing worse! I think your right about this one! If the state of the economy in the country I was living in was so bad I couldn't find work to support my family, I too might consider crossing the border into a neiboring country to find work. Knowing that if I did, I could get paid 10 times the salary for the same work I was used to doing, and the only concequences for doing so might be getting a bus ride home, or getting detained for a night. Would I care if I was told this was illegal? probably not, I would be more concerned with feeding my family. I definately do not support these people and think they should all be sent back. But this is the reality-MONEY. Mexico shoud do something to help their citizens instead of pawning them of on us! Untill this happens,we will always have this problem. It can't be good for the Mexican economy loosing a good part of their workforce...wait I take that back...most of this money ends up back in Mexico anyhow! Why would they want to fix this problem???

[Rocketman]

My point exactly...

Evidently... It's easier and more convenient for the easily impressed to get upset over a flag being flown upside down than a couple of Blackwater employees hanging upside down from a bridge.

Burnt to a crisp no less, along with OUR FLAG!! I bet Demo Dickie was pissed about that one!!

[Prowler]

The values you are reflecting with your rhetoric are those of a dictatorship, not the United States of America, land of the free.

The whole point of your country is to promote independent thought and a free marketplace.

Respecting your country and customs is neither an established American value, or a tenet of democracy.

Holding those points/values as a necessity for "Americanism" is precisely what has transformed your country from a democracy, which it originally was, to a bipartisan oligarchy, which it currently is, and will keep you on the path to a dictatorship/monarchy...

To a lot of people, the History of our forefathers is not for sale. I am one that doesn't put this country up for adoption.
So what YOU ARE saying is I can walk into YOUR house and burn YOUR family portrait and that will be fine because your promoting values? This is America, and we do things American here! Go to freaking Mexico to fly the that flag the way you want it. Will I like it? No I won't, BUT don't do it here in my home.

[Rocketman]

Holding those points/values as a necessity for "Americanism" is precisely what has transformed your country from a democracy, which it originally was, to a bipartisan oligarchy, which it currently is, and will keep you on the path to a dictatorship/monarchy...

America has never actually been or will be any of those. If you believe that you are naive. There is a ruling class (the haves) and a working class. (the have nots) Almost every society has juggled this basic tenant and disguised it under many names of governments. Those who truly own and those who don't. The Kings owned, the rest didn't. The DC politicans work for the lobbyists who are controlled by the true owners.

Our country was founded by this concept as well. The very rich farmers and industrials got tired of paying taxes to "the King" off in a far away land and decided to make a country they ruled, they owned.

[XJ Dreamin']

The values you are reflecting with your rhetoric are those of a dictatorship, not the United States of America, land of the free.

The whole point of your country is to promote independent thought and a free marketplace.

Respecting your country and customs is neither an established American value, or a tenet of democracy.

Holding those points/values as a necessity for "Americanism" is precisely what has transformed your country from a democracy, which it originally was, to a bipartisan oligarchy, which it currently is, and will keep you on the path to a dictatorship/monarchy...



Wow. Let me just sit here awhile between these two world views.

Man, they are so far apart I can hardly see them. These's one waaaaay over there, and...wait..yeah...there's the other waaaaaay over there.

Gee, I wish they were both here in the middle where they could help work out this problem.



America has never actually been or will be any of those. If you believe that you are naive. There is a ruling class (the haves) and a working class. (the have nots) Almost every society has juggled this basic tenant and disguised it under many names of governments. Those who truly own and those who don't. The Kings owned, the rest didn't. The DC politicans work for the lobbyists who are controlled by the true owners.

Our country was founded by this concept as well. The very rich farmers and industrials got tired of paying taxes to "the King" off in a far away land and decided to make a country they ruled, they owned.

:D Just kiddin' guys :wave:

[cumorglas]

I wonder if they realize that flying the US flag upside is a sign of distress- like sending out an SOS.

while i can't speak to this particular occasion most of the time you see a flag flown upside down at a protest that is exactly what they mean. this country is in distress. generally some fool that doesn't understand that gets upset and believes it's disrespectful.

one of the few rights we still have from the bill of rights is the right of free speech and protest. one of the most patriotic things you can do is speak up at things you see needing to be changed in your government. protest and a mechanism for change is what let our country survive this long.

[Gil BullyKatz]

This is America, and we do things American here! Go to freaking Mexico to fly the that flag the way you want it. Will I like it? No I won't, BUT don't do it here in my home.

So let me ask you...

Besides paying taxes...

What have YOU done for the U.S. of A?

What exactly has been your contribution to our society besides financial?

[Captain Ron]

So let me ask you...

Besides paying taxes...

What have YOU done for the U.S. of A?

What exactly has been your contribution to our society besides financial?

He's a consumer.

What else is there?

:D

--ron

[GSequoia]

What exactly has been your contribution to our society besides financial?

Does trail maintenance count? :D

[bfred]

while i can't speak to this particular occasion most of the time you see a flag flown upside down at a protest that is exactly what they mean. this country is in distress. generally some fool that doesn't understand that gets upset and believes it's disrespectful.

one of the few rights we still have from the bill of rights is the right of free speech and protest. one of the most patriotic things you can do is speak up at things you see needing to be changed in your government. protest and a mechanism for change is what let our country survive this long.The part that's disrespectful is the fact that they are flying the mexican flag above ours. As for the country that's in distress, I believe that's Mexico. Thats why they want to come here in the first place! Maybe we should show our support by flying the Mexican flag upside down...Do you really think they would understand this?

[cumorglas]

. As for the country that's in distress, I believe that's Mexico.

and you feel that our desperate need for cheap labor in the agricultural, meatpacking, landscaping, and construction industries(for starters) that causes us to employ them by the millions doesn't show that we are in distress?

[cumorglas]

Mexico shoud do something to help their citizens instead of pawning them of on us! Untill this happens,we will always have this problem. It can't be good for the Mexican economy loosing a good part of their workforce...wait I take that back...most of this money ends up back in Mexico anyhow! Why would they want to fix this problem???


this is like saying Columbia should stop selling us coke. the demand is here. even if i am not shelling out the dollars for coke or cheap immigrant labor my fellow countrymen are. you want to fix it? vote with your pocketbook. encourage those around you to do the same. this is the most powerful vote you have in a kindasorta freemarket system.

[bfred]

and you feel that our desperate need for cheap labor in the agricultural, meatpacking, landscaping, and construction industries(for starters) that causes us to employ them by the millions doesn't show that we are in distress? Our "despirate need" for cheap labor is fueled by the corperations who have been breaking the law for years by employing these people. The fact that we have a great need for unskilled (cheap)labor does not make this right. I look at my nephew (early 20's) right now trying to buy his first home. He will end up paying in property taxes each month about the same as what my first mortgage payment was. He has a good job (Journeyman electritian), but his salery isn't much different than what I was making at his age (16 yrs ago). In other words, our cost of living has gone up considerably, but I don't see that wages have increased accordingly. Younger people today see this fact and won't even consider lower paying jobs. The fact that are labor force is flooded with illegals that don't care about the "American dream" and are planning on sending the money they make here back to their country were this can be considered a good salary doesn't help. Kind of a catch 22...

[Prowler]

So let me ask you...

Besides paying taxes...

What have YOU done for the U.S. of A?

What exactly has been your contribution to our society besides financial?

What have I done? Ill tell you what I have done.
-Went to school
-paid taxes on everything I buy
-FOLLOW the laws
-Joined the Marine Corps.
-Vowled to always follow my constitution.

Do you want anything else??? I'm sure I can come up with more.

[XJ_creation]

Remember that the constitution gives us all the freedom of speech...



IMO that applies to citizens of the United States of America.....not illegals.

[Ben H]

Idiots, they dont even know which way the flag is supposed to go, lame. I wonder what kinda candy they have in that pinada? Bet ya it's Hershey bars, and M&Ms, I hope they have Butterfingers in there..

[Gil BullyKatz]

What have I done? Ill tell you what I have done.
-Went to school
-paid taxes on everything I buy
-FOLLOW the laws
-Joined the Marine Corps.
-Vowled to always follow my constitution.

Do you want anything else??? I'm sure I can come up with more.

Did you forget that your being in the Marines safeguarded their freedom of expression no matter how despicable it may be to you?

or do you choose to only enforce specific sections of the constitution?

"I'll only protect the rights of those I agree with."

WTF?

[Gil BullyKatz]

IMO that applies to citizens of the United States of America.....not illegals.

Did you miss that part of the Constitution where if you're born on US soil...

You ARE a citizen?

It's called the fourteenth amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

and regarding the Consitution:

The United States Bill of Rights consists of the first 10 amendments to the United States Constitution. These amendments limit the powers of the federal government, protecting the rights of all citizens, residents and visitors on United States territory.

[cumorglas]

Our "despirate need" for cheap labor is fueled by the corperations who have been breaking the law for years by employing these people. The fact that we have a great need for unskilled (cheap)labor does not make this right. I look at my nephew (early 20's) right now trying to buy his first home. He will end up paying in property taxes each month about the same as what my first mortgage payment was. He has a good job (Journeyman electritian), but his salery isn't much different than what I was making at his age (16 yrs ago). In other words, our cost of living has gone up considerably, but I don't see that wages have increased accordingly. Younger people today see this fact and won't even consider lower paying jobs. The fact that are labor force is flooded with illegals that don't care about the "American dream" and are planning on sending the money they make here back to their country were this can be considered a good salary doesn't help. Kind of a catch 22...
You just made my point for me. the problem lies hERE, in the hands of the corporations and industries trying to shave their costs, and not looking at the outcome beyond immediate profits. it is nearly impossible for a public corporation to take the long view on anything. private corporations, however, can. they just seldom do.

again don't blame the immigrants, stop buying from the companies that seek to lower wages by enticing them here with jobs.

There are two sizeable nurseries/tree farms in my area. I have at times done satellite installs for both of them. They both hire immigrants. one of them has a woman who works full time just making sure everyone has their paperwork(H1a's and whatnot) he pays them in the range of 15-18 dollars an hour, provides housing, and 60 odd channels in spanish. the other does not do any of those things. last summer guess who stayed in business whe the INS raided both of them.

[bigdaddyjlove]

If you cannot understand the difference between a visitor and an intruder, then I don't believe that we can have a real dialog.:confused:


Did you miss that part of the Constitution where if you're born on US soil...

You ARE a citizen?

It's called the fourteenth amendment:



and regarding the Consitution:

[Prowler]

Did you forget that your being in the Marines safeguarded their freedom of expression no matter how despicable it may be to you?

or do you choose to only enforce specific sections of the constitution?

"I'll only protect the rights of those I agree with."

WTF?

As stated by others above. The consitution goes with AMERICANS; not illegals.
Also, I have my freedom of speach. Maybe not in certain places where I am supposed to leave out political type topics but here on the forums or when I'm with my friends or family...There isn't no doubt your going to here my opinion.

[Gil BullyKatz]

If you cannot understand the difference between a visitor and an intruder, then I don't believe that we can have a real dialog.:confused:

Oh I understand the difference...

I don't see how a kid born here can be considered an "intruder"...

As a parent, I can't see how someone seeking for a better life for their family can also be considered an "intruder'.

as pointed out a few times by others, the problem is caused by the demand for cheap labor by businesses that employ them.

NOT by those that choose to work for cheaper pay.

You have more contempt for a working illegal than a "citizen" that has never worked a day in his life, collects public aid and welfare?

At least the illegal makes it possible for you to have fresh fruit in your kitchen...

[Gil BullyKatz]

As stated by others above. The consitution goes with AMERICANS; not illegals.


I suggest you read it again before quoting the consitution:

The United States Bill of Rights consists of the first 10 amendments to the United States Constitution. These amendments limit the powers of the federal government, protecting the rights of all citizens, residents and visitors on United States territory.

...and yes you are entitled to your opinion. Just as much as a bunch of clueless little high school kids in Cali.

Do I agree with either one of you?

nope.

[Prowler]

VISITORS, not walk ons that complain.
-I am a visitor when I go on vacation
-I am not a visitor when I walk into a place for which I am going to live.

[bigdaddyjlove]

Please don't misunderstand, I hold those who squander the vast oportunity presented in this country in the highest contempt.

However "seeking a better life" doesn't meen that you can flaunt the law with impunity. I could seek a better life by stealing cars, embezeling from my workplace, or robbing the homes of my neighbors. Does that mean that I should be immune from prosecution because of my motives?

Those born here ARE citizens. I understand that and never said otherwise. I speak of those who BREAK OUR LAWS and are never held acountable.

[Gil BullyKatz]

VISITORS, not walk ons that complain.
-I am a visitor when I go on vacation
-I am not a visitor when I walk into a place for which I am going to live.

Wouldn't that make you a RESIDENT?

Also protected by the Constitution.

[Gil BullyKatz]

I speak of those who BREAK OUR LAWS and are never held acountable.

Oh like Kenneth Lay and the billions he stole from hard working tax paying Americans who lost their entire life savings and will never be compensated?

Accountablility?

If your a celebrity or wealthy you are not held to the same standard as Joe Blow...

Reality check:

It would cost the US more money to either incarcerate or deport illegal aliens.

Fawk it... I've said it before: grant them residency (or a new designation) and tax them like everyone else.

[karstic]

Fawk it... I've said it before: grant them residency (or a new designation) and tax them like everyone else.

Agreed. Then what? What do you think is a sound immigration policy for those that want to come to the United States for better opportunity?

[87manche]

Gil, I hope this makes you happy...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Bdiddy11/sniper.jpg

Katie Couric , while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:"What do you feel when you shoot a Terrorist?"

The Marine shrugged and replied,"A slight recoil."


Now about the flag issue...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/recoil.asp

[Beej]

America has never actually been or will be any of those. If you believe that you are naive. There is a ruling class (the haves) and a working class. (the have nots) Almost every society has juggled this basic tenant and disguised it under many names of governments. Those who truly own and those who don't. The Kings owned, the rest didn't. The DC politicans work for the lobbyists who are controlled by the true owners.

Our country was founded by this concept as well. The very rich farmers and industrials got tired of paying taxes to "the King" off in a far away land and decided to make a country they ruled, they owned. I was only describing the system of government from a philosophical viewpoint. Democracy means rule of the people by the people. You're saying that is not a tenet of the original concept of a nation independent of England?

Bipartisan Oligarchy is an observation of your current system of government. Googling both words will explain why that is an accurate observation. This isn't an opinion, its an observation, your emotion is out of place here.

A dictatorship is a government ruled by a single non-accountable leader. Are you saying you don't think that is a parallel to the last half a dozen years?

I understand your history probably far better than you understand mine. I was making observations and pointing out how extremely unAmerican the previous tard's value-laden commentary was. Your emotional response is your own responsibility...

[bigdaddyjlove]

Pointing out others who should be prosecuted does not make their (illegal imigrants) crimes vanish. Those you have mentioned should absolutely be taken to task for any crimes they have commited.

The dream of america is that no man is above the law, and that no man is below the law. I understand that we are not always efficient at the application of that precept, but giving up because it is unpleasant, expensive, or dificult is a slap in the face of every man, woman, or child who has suffered to put us where we are now. Who sat in a cold house, hungry, because they refused to steal for what they needed. Who (like most of our ancestors, I assume) spent months or years or decades to imigrate to these United States the proper way allowed by the law of the land, and then after coming here became United States citizens, but more importantly, American in their heart.


Oh like Kenneth Lay and the billions he stole from hard working tax paying Americans who lost their entire life savings and will never be compensated?

Accountablility?

If your a celebrity or wealthy you are not held to the same standard as Joe Blow...

Reality check:

It would cost the US more money to either incarcerate or deport illegal aliens.

Fawk it... I've said it before: grant them residency (or a new designation) and tax them like everyone else.

[Gil BullyKatz]

Agreed. Then what? What do you think is a sound immigration policy for those that want to come to the United States for better opportunity?


work permits?

sponsorships?

Some type of paid license to akin to association fess?

Harsher penalties for employers that skirt the law and incentives to industries that currently use illegal labor to wean them from them.

We should provide some type of program that would allow someone that is willing to work and contribute to our society the opportunity to stay here and prove it.

I would think that like in the past, skilled labor or craftsmen would be given priority but for the unskilled...

There's roads that need paved, meals that need to be cooked, and kids that need babysitting right?

Don't get me wrong guys... I hate freeloaders, but I think everyone deserves a chance to prove their worth.

my .02$

[karstic]

work permits?

sponsorships?

Some type of paid license to akin to association fess?

Harsher penalties for employers that skirt the law and incentives to industries that currently use illegal labor to wean them from them.

We should provide some type of program that would allow someone that is willing to work and contribute to our society the opportunity to stay here and prove it.

I would think that like in the past, skilled labor or craftsmen would be given priority but for the unskilled...

There's roads that need paved, meals that need to be cooked, and kids that need babysitting right?

Don't get me wrong guys... I hate freeloaders, but I think everyone deserves a chance to prove their worth.

my .02$

Sounds good, but don't we have something like this in place already, ie Green Cards, work visas, etc.

From my view the problem isn't one of program it's a problem of enforcement. Couple that with a fairly open border and you have a system ripe for abuse.

What do you propose to stem the tide at the border?

[Prowler]

Here is why I feel like I do torwards them.
-a lot of freeloaders
-DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH

And the number 1 reason...
-They want to be Americans YET they fly the Mexican flag.

That is what I hate.

[Gil BullyKatz]

Sounds good, but don't we have something like this in place already, ie Green Cards, work visas, etc.

From my view the problem isn't one of program it's a problem of enforcement. Couple that with a fairly open border and you have a system ripe for abuse.

What do you propose to stem the tide at the border?

Agreed...

Maybe if we enforced the current laws it wouldn't be an issue.

Then again... We allow rapists and child molesters back on the street where they usually repeat their crimes.

To put it in perspective, it would bother me more to have a registered pedophile living across the street than to see an illegal alien mowing my neighbor's lawn.

Where do you think I want my local Police Dept's priorities and resources to be spent?

As far as the border, I am so completely against civvies patrolling the border. Hire a couple more thousand Border Agents and give them the resources they need.

If that fails... start by allowing the Ft Huachuca boys to take the gloves off.

Hell... our troops are already overseas performing police duties (instead of fighting a war)

what would be the difference?

[87manche]

landmines
well posted signs advertising minefields

but the liberals don't have the heart for that.

[POSJ]

I say a big electric fence with land mines like manche said, let those that are here stay. Those that want to come can try their luck with the fence...I don't have a problem with Mexican's that came over here to work. I don't like their kids that claim to be Mexican and fly their parents country's flag and claim all of this pride about something they don't know about. Their parents came here for a reason; a better life. Obviously Mexico isn't all that they think it is. Pride in their heritage is one thing but being proud of a country that they have never been a part of is another thing. In my past experience working for a moving company prior to the Air Force, most Mexican workers worked harder than the other three guys I worked with for half the pay. Was it right? No. But they do work hard and are cheep labor, that is why the border isn't closed. People need to open their minds, it isn't all Mexicans that did this, it is their children that aren't even affected by it.

Let those that show they want to come over apply for work and come over, make manditory check-in's for them for a set amount of time. If they work hard enough and show they still want to be here and get sponsored(so to speak) by an employer, let them be naturlized.

I understand this will never happen, ohh well. My 2cents.

*Disclaimer*
I also know that all immagrants are not Mexican. They are from all countries in Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean. It is easier to be politically incorrect at times though sorry, cry if you want.

[kunaji]

Reality check:

It would cost the US more money to either incarcerate or deport illegal aliens.

Fawk it... I've said it before: grant them residency (or a new designation) and tax them like everyone else.

So basically you're saying you believe in a statute of limitations for being able to live here illegally when there are many people going through the proper legal channels to become citizens of this great country. "Live here for 10 years and avoid being deported and we'll let you become a citizen".

If they want to be citizens fine. This country has been the choice for most countries in the world to emigrate to. I can understand that. I cannot understand how people can say they want to be an American and then are unwilling to conform to being an American ie learning to speak english, pay taxes and protest how "badly" they are being treated. When my grandparents emigrated from Finland they didn't speak a word of english. Before they died they spoke better english than half the country and knew our history better than most high school grads. They worked hard and became citizens legally. Now tell me, which of these two groups would you prefer as your neighbor?

[motorcityxj]

What have I done? Ill tell you what I have done.
-Went to school
-paid taxes on everything I buy
-FOLLOW the laws
-Joined the Marine Corps.
-Vowled to always follow my constitution.

Do you want anything else??? I'm sure I can come up with more.

thatsnot enough ... for some people here apparently. Apparently simply "wanting" to better your self through an act of felonious nature makes you an assest, and we should 100 % grant the felons brats citizenship. However if you are born here and never did anything wrong in your life there is some arbitrary level of deservidness YOU are obilgated to meet, if not you the american is the burden and the illegal is the assest / savior. Also this supposed measure is a moving measure, it is not static, it changes depending on your skin color and the language you speak. Prowler, hope your not white, i am a spic (technicaly i a "halfbreed" according to gil ) and i am not even allowed to complain about illegal matters with gil, get on your flame suit and be prepared if your of white european decent.

that being born here "crap" only applies to illegal parents, not 2-10 generation americans.

try not to fall and drown in the quick sand like communist propaganda, its easy to drown.

[motorcityxj]

So basically you're saying you believe in a statute of limitations for being able to live here illegally when there are many people going through the proper legal channels to become citizens of this great country. "Live here for 10 years and avoid being deported and we'll let you become a citizen".

If they want to be citizens fine. This country has been the choice for most countries in the world to emigrate to. I can understand that. I cannot understand how people can say they want to be an American and then are unwilling to conform to being an American ie learning to speak english, pay taxes and protest how "badly" they are being treated. When my grandparents emigrated from Finland they didn't speak a word of english. Before they died they spoke better english than half the country and knew our history better than most high school grads. They worked hard and became citizens legally. Now tell me, which of these two groups would you prefer as your neighbor?

correct, gil is all about fairness, its not fair to not let the mexicans and latin americans in. Asians well they cant walk here so they can starve or linger is sqaulor, who gives a fark, same with africans they can bake in the sun and be eating by lions, and killied by roving miltia/murders.

also oddly he has a eons long grudge against the white man for comming here, and seems eager to forgive last weeks illegals. Pre law times, his people didnt believe in land ownership, and no he lives among the blue eyed devil, knows there white mans laws, and chooses to view history from different angles and through different rose colored glasses depending on who benefits. Indians getting a bum deal = bad. Not breaking any law though, blue eyed devils getting screwed over by them selves .... by way of 20 million illegals, gil is in the corner laughing.

odd that an indan who doesn't believe in land ownership is wronged, disregards IMMIGRATION laws, then preaches the constitution like he is a legal authority. Can your agenda be any more transparent .... how clear when you disregard one law, then yell and shout about look at this other law blah blah blah.

Lets jsut save them the effort give gill a stack of money and he can mail them all checks.

[Gil BullyKatz]

So basically you're saying you believe in a statute of limitations for being able to live here illegally when there are many people going through the proper legal channels to become citizens of this great country. "Live here for 10 years and avoid being deported and we'll let you become a citizen".

If they want to be citizens fine. This country has been the choice for most countries in the world to emigrate to. I can understand that. I cannot understand how people can say they want to be an American and then are unwilling to conform to being an American ie learning to speak english, pay taxes and protest how "badly" they are being treated. When my grandparents emigrated from Finland they didn't speak a word of english. Before they died they spoke better english than half the country and knew our history better than most high school grads. They worked hard and became citizens legally. Now tell me, which of these two groups would you prefer as your neighbor?

I honestly don't care if my neighbor's are Packer fans. I forgive them :D

As long as we can get along and they don't mess with my stuff. I lived my entire life in Chicago and lived next door to all kinds of people. I honestly can't judge anyone by their language skills or legal status. I'm more prone to judge them by their behavior and respect towards others.

Part of the problem IS the legal process of becoming a citizen. The govt seems to be able to grant legal paperwork to eurpeans in 1-2 years where filipino's wait an average of 8-10 years (never mind the nursing shortage). Granted that more filipinos (and other asians) and latinos wish to emigrate here than europeans but the govt should allocate the resources to expedite legal migration.

I don't think that legal citizenship should be just handed out to everyone here illegaly. Again... there has to be some type of criteria to meet (language skills, gainful employment, no criminal record, etc). The problem that arises is that INS has no way to control, monitor or enforce current laws.
There are waaaaaaaaay too many illegals here now to realistically and financially "send them back" or incarcerate them. If you catch an illegal in Michigan, how much would it cost the govt to ship him to Tijuana? Do we really want these people in jail when violent criminals get walking papers early for overcrowding?

As for Prowler and Motorcity... You guys bitch a lot about the problem but like so many people that do nothing more than sit and bitch... you have no feasible or realistic solutions besides the thinly veiled overt racism towards a specific group of people.
You assume that an entire group of people are represented by the lazy parasitic leeches we've all seen, but that's not the case. It's easy to sit back and say "Get rid of them" or "send them back" but do you honestly believe that's realistic?
Drop the paranoid blame someone else for our society's woes card and actually come up with a solution that's realistic and enforceable in the real world and not just a wishful thought in your narrow minded brains.

They're here, get over it. The solution is to try and integrate the productive members and make services unavailable to leeches and parasites of any color, ethnicity or legal status.

Apparently... It's easy for you two guys to bitch about the issue when you're dealing with uneducated disenfranchised hatemongers.

You guys remind me of Rev Phelps... He always seems to have followers regardless of his views.

[motorcityxj]

I honestly don't care if my neighbor's are Packer fans. I forgive them :D

As long as we can get along and they don't mess with my stuff. I lived my entire life in Chicago and lived next door to all kinds of people. I honestly can't judge anyone by their language skills or legal status. I'm more prone to judge them by their behavior and respect towards others.

Part of the problem IS the legal process of becoming a citizen. The govt seems to be able to grant legal paperwork to eurpeans in 1-2 years where filipino's wait an average of 8-10 years (never mind the nursing shortage). Granted that more filipinos (and other asians) and latinos wish to emigrate here than europeans but the govt should allocate the resources to expedite legal migration.

I don't think that legal citizenship should be just handed out to everyone here illegaly. Again... there has to be some type of criteria to meet (language skills, gainful employment, no criminal record, etc). The problem that arises is that INS has no way to control, monitor or enforce current laws.
There are waaaaaaaaay too many illegals here now to realistically and financially "send them back" or incarcerate them. If you catch an illegal in Michigan, how much would it cost the govt to ship him to Tijuana? Do we really want these people in jail when violent criminals get walking papers early for overcrowding?

As for Prowler and Motorcity... You guys bitch a lot about the problem but like so many people that do nothing more than sit and bitch... you have no feasible or realistic solutions besides the thinly veiled overt racism towards a specific group of people.
You assume that an entire group of people are represented by the lazy parasitic leeches we've all seen, but that's not the case. It's easy to sit back and say "Get rid of them" or "send them back" but do you honestly believe that's realistic?
Drop the paranoid blame someone else for our society's woes card and actually come up with a solution that's realistic and enforceable in the real world and not just a wishful thought in your narrow minded brains.

They're here, get over it. The solution is to try and integrate the productive members and make services unavailable to leeches and parasites of any color, ethnicity or legal status.

Apparently... It's easy for you two guys to bitch about the issue when you're dealing with uneducated disenfranchised hatemongers.

You guys remind me of Rev Phelps... He always seems to have followers regardless of his views.

the highlighted red is thinly vield communism. As if we "need" them. If we need them we give them visas. we decide if the economy is booming and there is a shortage of labor, they dont decide they want to come here and we have to deal with it. You make it sound like america is a fruit tree and anyone should get to eat from it. Its our tree, not the worlds tree, not our job to feed the world. 8-10 year wait is great! that gives us plenty of time to background check them, make them be on best behavior OVER THERE for years, and weeds out the get rich quick dreamers. Anything worth having is woth waiting for. If you were not lucky enough to be born here i am sorry, if you really want to come here an 8 year wait should not be an excuse to commit felonies.

say i want to do any number of things that take time, if i cant do it "the right way" are you ok with me cheating. Maybe practice medicine? Buildind a house takes to long, ill just take yours, maybe saving for retirement is to hard. Heck everything is "too hard" why do we have any rules!

the thing i hate the most has absolutley noting to do with skin color or nationality anything gil, the more you say it doesnt make it true:laugh: ... the thing i hate is from the beginging they are law breakers and rewarded for it if there is any amnesty. Explain to me how that is good for our culture, how is it fair to people who immigrated legally and did the paper work, waited etc. Should we pay reparations to all the europeans who have been deported over the years. I have a canadian uncle that was deported, maybe i can get my hands on some of the reparations money.:patriot:

[motorcityxj]

I honestly don't care if my neighbor's are Packer fans. I forgive them :D

As long as we can get along and they don't mess with my stuff. I lived my entire life in Chicago and lived next door to all kinds of people. I honestly can't judge anyone by their language skills or legal status. I'm more prone to judge them by their behavior and respect towards others.

Part of the problem IS the legal process of becoming a citizen. The govt seems to be able to grant legal paperwork to eurpeans in 1-2 years where filipino's wait an average of 8-10 years (never mind the nursing shortage). Granted that more filipinos (and other asians) and latinos wish to emigrate here than europeans but the govt should allocate the resources to expedite legal migration.

I don't think that legal citizenship should be just handed out to everyone here illegaly. Again... there has to be some type of criteria to meet (language skills, gainful employment, no criminal record, etc). The problem that arises is that INS has no way to control, monitor or enforce current laws.
There are waaaaaaaaay too many illegals here now to realistically and financially "send them back" or incarcerate them. If you catch an illegal in Michigan, how much would it cost the govt to ship him to Tijuana? Do we really want these people in jail when violent criminals get walking papers early for overcrowding?

As for Prowler and Motorcity... You guys bitch a lot about the problem but like so many people that do nothing more than sit and bitch... you have no feasible or realistic solutions besides the thinly veiled overt racism towards a specific group of people.
You assume that an entire group of people are represented by the lazy parasitic leeches we've all seen, but that's not the case. It's easy to sit back and say "Get rid of them" or "send them back" but do you honestly believe that's realistic?
Drop the paranoid blame someone else for our society's woes card and actually come up with a solution that's realistic and enforceable in the real world and not just a wishful thought in your narrow minded brains.

They're here, get over it. The solution is to try and integrate the productive members and make services unavailable to leeches and parasites of any color, ethnicity or legal status.

Apparently... It's easy for you two guys to bitch about the issue when you're dealing with uneducated disenfranchised hatemongers.

You guys remind me of Rev Phelps... He always seems to have followers regardless of his views.

the highlighted red is thinly vield communism. As if we "need" them. If we need them we give them visas. we decide if the economy is booming and there is a shortage of labor, they dont decide they want to come here and we have to deal with it. You make it sound like america is a fruit tree and anyone should get to eat from it. Its our tree, not the worlds tree, not our job to feed the world. 8-10 year wait is great! that gives us plenty of time to background check them, make them be on best behavior OVER THERE for years, and weeds out the get rich quick dreamers. Anything worth having is woth waiting for. If you were not lucky enough to be born here i am sorry, if you really want to come here an 8 year wait should not be an excuse to commit felonies.

say i want to do any number of things that take time, if i cant do it "the right way" are you ok with me cheating. Maybe practice medicine? Buildind a house takes to long, ill just take yours, maybe saving for retirement is to hard. Heck everything is "too hard" why do we have any rules!

the thing i hate the most has absolutley noting to do with skin color or nationality anything gil, the more you say it doesnt make it true:laugh: ... the thing i hate is from the beginging they are law breakers and rewarded for it if there is any amnesty. Explain to me how that is good for our culture, how is it fair to people who immigrated legally and did the paper work, waited etc. Should we pay reparations to all the europeans who have been deported over the years. I have a canadian uncle that was deported, maybe i can get my hands on some of the reparations money.:patriot:

whats really disgusting is your feeling that we NEED to get these folks jobs. Its our duty. As many people as can make it here, we have to make room for them, and get them jobs and their due piece of the pie. Absolutely perverse! We should allow in a safe amount that WE need, not as many was want to get here. Your ideas are so twisted.

In a few threads you brought up other folks jobs. What is it you do that you think your insulated enough illegals or lets even imagine the world you like it to be, a MASSIVE legal immigration movement can not drive your wages/income down. Not asking how much $ you make, just want to know what it is you do.

[Gil BullyKatz]

Communism? wtf? I spent quite a few years in Central America "fighting communism" in the 80's...

whats really disgusting is your feeling that we NEED to get these folks jobs. Its our duty. As many people as can make it here, we have to make room for them, and get them jobs and their due piece of the pie. Absolutely perverse! We should allow in a safe amount that WE need, not as many was want to get here. Your ideas are so twisted.

and where the fawk did I say that? Nope. You apparently can't read. I propose that anyone on public aid or welfare should have to work, even if it's paving roads or picking up trash on city streets. We don't NEED to give these folks jobs...

They ALREADY have jobs. Let's crack down on employers that hire illegals and give them incentives to not do so in the future. Illegals are big business in this country and your are living in a fantasy world if you choose to not believe that business is the most responsible for it.

What do you propose we do with every illegal in the country? You actually think there's a way to round them up? Hell... We can't even get a count of how many are here.

you mentioned the 8-10 year wait and how it's worth it. Sure it's worth it but how many people will actually wait? Do YOU have any idea how many chinese travel to mexico to get smuggled in across the border? How do YOU propose we secure the border?

I hear a lot of talk but no ideas or realistic proposals.

Typical.

[GSequoia]

Communism? wtf?

Don't you know Gil, whenever you disagree with somebody that's so hard line you get called a communist, it's a sign that they can't come up with a feasible argument.

You know, I always thought communists didn't like a bunch of people freely going in and out of the country...

[kunaji]

I honestly don't care if my neighbor's are Packer fans. I forgive them :D

They're here, get over it. The solution is to try and integrate the productive members and make services unavailable to leeches and parasites of any color, ethnicity or legal status.


Packer fans are a whole 'nother issue..... They have their own set of problems...

I like that second point with the exception of getting over it. That's just trying to hide from a problem and not dealing with it. The illegal aliens need to have something deterring them from coming here illegally or they will just keep doing it no matter house easy it would be to become a citizen.

[RichP]

Actually we could tie the quotas to the unemployment rate, 1% plenty of visas, 10% cut it off at the knees till the TRUE rates come down. The reported unemployment rates the govt publishes are false, they only report people who are collecting unemployment, once you run out you drop off the scale. Just because 20,000 people exhausted their unemployment and dropped off does not mean they all got jobs overnite, those 20K are still unemployed.
I'd also like to see american companies products have the same tariff as say Norinco pays, when they build products overseas and then bring them back into the US. Build that truck in mexico, no problem however you will pay a tariff on it.