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Strange issue...Trying to figure out.

B

brenttrf

NAXJA Forum User
First of all, it's probably not strange, just strange to me. I've been reading up on TPS, IAC, MAP sensors and such here and I can't seem to see the same issue as I am having. Don't know if you guys can point me in the correct direction.

First of all, this is a 2000 with 102k on it.

Recently(the last week) I've been having a hard time starting the rig. It is turning over as if the battery is dying(really slow turn over) and then will fire up. Battery is good, so I am thinking the starter may be giving me some issues. Then, last night it would fire(With the same weird starting issues), but not stay running. After trying to start is a couple of times. I started it and kept the throttle open. After I kept the throttle open for a minute or so (idling about 1500rpm) it continued to run. I drove it home(About 10 minutes varying in speeds from 25-55) and it died heading up my driveway. This AM, I came out to test it and it is turning over funny still, but started right up. I've run a couple of errands this AM and there have been no issues besides the weird startup.

So, can you guys help me narrow this thing down?

Thanks
 
Take the battery to a someplace that can do a load test on it. It may have a bad cell. Lack of capacity or low voltage would help explain slow cranking and weird running.
 
Tim_MN said:
Take the battery to a someplace that can do a load test on it. It may have a bad cell. Lack of capacity or low voltage would help explain slow cranking and weird running.
Click to expand...
Definitely, and you need to check all the battery cables, and the grounds from the block. I'd almost bet money on a corroded cable, or bad battery. The not wanting to idle at first with out stepping down on the gas a bit is a classic low voltage sign.
 
Tim_MN said:
Take the battery to a someplace that can do a load test on it. It may have a bad cell. Lack of capacity or low voltage would help explain slow cranking and weird running.
Click to expand...

it shouldn't be the battery. It's new as of 9 months ago and seems to test strong. I have not done a load test on it though. Are there any other tests I can do at home to double check it. Would this cause the car to stall? the car runs perfectly otherwise that stalling last night. It does nothing odd while I am driving and on the throttle.
 
Put a voltmeter on the battery, then turn on the high beam lights and see how much the volts drop. They should still stay 12 or there abouts. Any lower and I would suspect the battery. Then, while the lights are on, measure the voltage from the negative terminal of the battery to the chassis. It should be virtually zero.
 
old_man said:
Put a voltmeter on the battery, then turn on the high beam lights and see how much the volts drop. They should still stay 12 or there abouts. Any lower and I would suspect the battery. Then, while the lights are on, measure the voltage from the negative terminal of the battery to the chassis. It should be virtually zero.
Click to expand...

With the car on it is running around 14 with the car off and lights on it drops to around 10. Should I do this with the car running or off?
 
Starter could be going bad, and pulling too many amps and thus damage even a new battery. Alternator may not be putting out enough amps and thus draining the battery, A battery cable may be loose or corroded causing the same problems. I have yet to find a mechanic here in Houston who does not remove the battery cable to work on the vehicle, and then they forget to properly tighten the battery cable they took loose once they are done!:rattle:

I always check and tighten the battery clamps everytime I have someone else service one of my vehicles (which is becoming a rare thing more and more for me).
 
Ecomike said:
Starter could be going bad, and pulling too many amps and thus damage even a new battery. Alternator may not be putting out enough amps and thus draining the battery, A battery cable may be loose or corroded causing the same problems. I have yet to find a mechanic here in Houston who does not remove the battery cable to work on the vehicle, and then they forget to properly tighten the battery cable they took loose once they are done!:rattle:

I always check and tighten the battery clamps everytime I have someone else service one of my vehicles (which is becoming a rare thing more and more for me).
Click to expand...

Just ran the testing that old_man recommended.

I did it with the car off. The battery was at 12.67. When i turned the lights on and ran the brights it dropped down to 9.86 and stopped there. When I run the vehicle no matter if lights are on or off, the battery runs between 14-14.15. Seems to be charging well. The minute I turn the car off, the battery drops like crazy. It probably takes about 10-15 seconds to get down under 10. Cables have been pulled checked and cleaned. Battery has been pulled checked and cleaned.

When I let the car run for a little bit and then restart, it seems to start just fine. no issues with the starter sounding funny. When I do the test with the lights and wait for the battry voltage to drop, the starter then gives me the issues.

I think you gusy are correct in that it is probably the battery. I was totally wrong on how old this battery was. Our other car is 9 months, this one is about 40 months. it does have a 72 month pro rated warranty though, so I will go down and have it tested and get it traded out if that is it.

ANy other suggestions? Thanks
.
 
brenttrf said:
Just ran the testing that old_man recommended.

I did it with the car off. The battery was at 12.67. When i turned the lights on and ran the brights it dropped down to 9.86 and stopped there. When I run the vehicle no matter if lights are on or off, the battery runs between 14-14.15. Seems to be charging well. The minute I turn the car off, the battery drops like crazy. It probably takes about 10-15 seconds to get down under 10. Cables have been pulled checked and cleaned. Battery has been pulled checked and cleaned.

When I let the car run for a little bit and then restart, it seems to start just fine. no issues with the starter sounding funny. When I do the test with the lights and wait for the battry voltage to drop, the starter then gives me the issues.

I think you gusy are correct in that it is probably the battery. I was totally wrong on how old this battery was. Our other car is 9 months, this one is about 40 months. it does have a 72 month pro rated warranty though, so I will go down and have it tested and get it traded out if that is it.

ANy other suggestions? Thanks
.
Click to expand...
One of your test results has me wondering if something is draining the battery while the car is parked. Specifically you said if you run it a while (which charges the battery) that it starts back up right away with out any problem. May need a new battery anyway, but also check to see if something is stuck on draining the battery slowly while it is parked.
 
Ecomike said:
One of your test results has me wondering if something is draining the battery while the car is parked. Specifically you said if you run it a while (which charges the battery) that it starts back up right away with out any problem. May need a new battery anyway, but also check to see if something is stuck on draining the battery slowly while it is parked.
Click to expand...

Let me clarify one thing. the battery dropped like crazy when the lights were on. I have not tested the battery without any other services on once I have stopped the vehicle

One issue I have right now is my key is stuck in the ignition. It has been like this for about a month. It does turn to off, but not to lock. Is there anything running when it is in the off position?

Next time I start it, I will test it right when I turn it off and then check it an hour later and see what the difference is.
 
Alright, I ran the rig for a while to make sure the battery was well charged. that was at 2:00. I then stopped the car and let it sit. When I stopped the car I immediately took a reading and it read 12.99. I then have let it sit the last 2 hours. I have taken a new reading and it said 11.92. So the battery is slowly draining. Could this be just because the battery is getting bad? r do I have a leak happening somewhere?
 
With the key not turned all the way off it can cause a small drain on your batt. My old ladys geo you have to push the lock just right to turn it to lock, her key is worn down so you have to make sure it's off and not just pull the key out, I've had a few 'hunny can you come jump my car' calls. This is kind of commen at the used car lot I work at with cars with key locks and drained batts the next day, hard starts and all.

You may have to pull the wheel to unstick your key. Work on getting your key out.


andy
 
et89xj said:
With the key not turned all the way off it can cause a small drain on your batt. My old ladys geo you have to push the lock just right to turn it to lock, her key is worn down so you have to make sure it's off and not just pull the key out, I've had a few 'hunny can you come jump my car' calls. This is kind of commen at the used car lot I work at with cars with key locks and drained batts the next day, hard starts and all.

You may have to pull the wheel to unstick your key. Work on getting your key out.


andy
Click to expand...

It is off. there are 4 positions. Lock, Off, Acc/On, Start. It goes to Off, but not lock. I can't find anything in the vehicle that would be running with it in the off position.

The other thing that is driving me crazy is it sat all night and started fine this AM. I just went to start it a couple of minutes ago and it won't stay on it dies. After idling it for about 30 seconds it finally stays running. that was with the battery at 11.92. It started and ran fine earlier with the battery at 9.6.

I don't get it. it is something intermittent.
 
brenttrf said:
Alright, I ran the rig for a while to make sure the battery was well charged. that was at 2:00. I then stopped the car and let it sit. When I stopped the car I immediately took a reading and it read 12.99. I then have let it sit the last 2 hours. I have taken a new reading and it said 11.92. So the battery is slowly draining. Could this be just because the battery is getting bad? r do I have a leak happening somewhere?
Click to expand...

Could be an intermitent internal short across some battery plates inside the battery, or and external short. If you have a battery charger, disconnect the battery from the car, charge it up for a few hours then disconnect it. If the voltage drops the short is inside the battery, one or more cells is shorting across the cell anode to cathode. Watch the batery and charger closely for any signs of overloading the charger or hot spots or anything unusual.

WARNING!!!! Be vary careful charging and discharging the battery. If it is a short, they have been known to explode, Lead sulfate and Sulfuric acid are no fun to clean up! Mine exploded trying to start the engine once. Luckily no one was near the battery when it went, but I was just luck that time, I was inside turning the key.
 
Ecomike said:
Could be an intermitent internal short across some battery plates inside the battery, or and external short. If you have a battery charger, disconnect the battery from the car, charge it up for a few hours then disconnect it. If the voltage drops the short is inside the battery, one or more cells is shorting across the cell anode to cathode. Watch the batery and charger closely for any signs of overloading the charger or hot spots or anything unusual.

WARNING!!!! Be vary careful charging and discharging the battery. If it is a short, they have been known to explode, Lead sulfate and Sulfuric acid are no fun to clean up! Mine exploded trying to start the engine once. Luckily no one was near the battery when it went, but I was just luck that time, I was inside turning the key.
Click to expand...

I can try this. I've got a battery charger. At this point, I may not be able to do this tonight though. maybe I'm just as well off to take it down and have it tested tomorrow AM.
 
brenttrf said:
Let me clarify one thing. the battery dropped like crazy when the lights were on. I have not tested the battery without any other services on once I have stopped the vehicle

One issue I have right now is my key is stuck in the ignition. It has been like this for about a month. It does turn to off, but not to lock. Is there anything running when it is in the off position?

Next time I start it, I will test it right when I turn it off and then check it an hour later and see what the difference is.
Click to expand...

Your key is stuck because the shift interlock cable. You need to remove the black insert the runs the full length of the console. The shift interlock cable is the one on the passenger side. Disconnect it from the shifter and give it a good pull, then turn the key to lock and remove it. You can leave the cable disconnected, but remember it will now start in any gear---so be careful.
 
brenttrf said:
First of all, it's probably not strange, just strange to me. I've been reading up on TPS, IAC, MAP sensors and such here and I can't seem to see the same issue as I am having. Don't know if you guys can point me in the correct direction.

First of all, this is a 2000 with 102k on it.

Recently(the last week) I've been having a hard time starting the rig. It is turning over as if the battery is dying(really slow turn over) and then will fire up. Battery is good, so I am thinking the starter may be giving me some issues. Then, last night it would fire(With the same weird starting issues), but not stay running. After trying to start is a couple of times. I started it and kept the throttle open. After I kept the throttle open for a minute or so (idling about 1500rpm) it continued to run. I drove it home(About 10 minutes varying in speeds from 25-55) and it died heading up my driveway. This AM, I came out to test it and it is turning over funny still, but started right up. I've run a couple of errands this AM and there have been no issues besides the weird startup.

So, can you guys help me narrow this thing down?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I had similar issues with a Grand Cherokee once - it turned out that when I put in the battery, I put on way to much of that corrosion-inhibitor vaseline stuff that comes in the squeeze pak on the surfaces terminals while installing. Cleaned it off with an oily rag so that only a thin film remained, reinstalled, and bam, no more problems.

Try cleaning them off - it couldn't hurt. Also make sure there isn't corrosion between the battery cable and the clamp on the terminal.
 
Ok here's what I got.

I was able to run a load test and one cell is bad. Good call. It was purchased at Sears and I've got replacement coveredge, so a new one is going in as we speak.

Also, since my key stuck, I have bee reading different ways fo fixing it, but Jess nailed it. I popped the cover around the shifter. Found the cable, it pops right off, I yanked on it and the key is now unlocked. I've left it unplugged for now. No issue there except that lack of lock on the shifter.

Thanks for all the help!
 
I had a similar problem 5 years ago and again this morning with my wife's '99 XJ. I took the battery out, put i it on the charger and it showed that it was 95-100% charged, I put it back in the XJ and same thing.

Took it into Advanced Auto Parts where they checked the battery and it wasn't holding full amperage. I bought a new battery and the car works fine now. I bought the Optima (red top) again. I guess I'll do this again in 5 years.
 
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