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wj booster and now need more volume, what master cylinder?

RWKHausSupply

RWKHausSupply

NAXJA Forum User
Location
yorba linda, Cali
ok so theres all this info out there but none that is accurate or pertains when it comes to the WJ booster and MC. I did the Wj swap and now swpped in a 60/14 bolt with the huge ford dual piston from calipers, and the k20 front calipers on the rear in the disc convers.

So now what master ACTUALLY is a bolt on upgrade if any?

thanks
 
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No on the E350. It won't seal against the dual booster. Best bet is an Mc out of a 4-wheel disc Dodge truck.
The Ram 1500-3500 series ('99-04) have 1.250 bore--may be OK for your larger calipers, or try the '99-03 Dakota or Durango, which have a 1.125 bore. The part number for these two is ts 102967 (Napa online). I have not done this swap, but have researched it for a future upgrade. In my research, I have read that the above bolt up, with out mods to a '01 TJ booster, which should be the same as the the WJ. Only "mod" was to replace the MC push rod with a 1/4-fine thread bolt, 2" long.
 
xjbubba said:
No on the E350. It won't seal against the dual booster. Best bet is an Mc out of a 4-wheel disc Dodge truck.
The Ram 1500-3500 series ('99-04) have 1.250 bore--may be OK for your larger calipers, or try the '99-03 Dakota or Durango, which have a 1.125 bore. The part number for these two is ts 102967 (Napa online). I have not done this swap, but have researched it for a future upgrade. In my research, I have read that the above bolt up, with out mods to a '01 TJ booster, which should be the same as the the WJ. Only "mod" was to replace the MC push rod with a 1/4-fine thread bolt, 2" long.
Click to expand...

Well the 102697 does not come with a resovoir. And cant find one for it new. Then as for the 1500-3500 ram truck, I bought that one and it Does not bolt on and does not even have enough casting to elongate the holes to make it fit.
 
xjbubba said:
Like I said, I've researched it, but have not actually done the swap; however, a number of people say the '99 Dodge 1500-3500 and the '99 Durango will fit. 53guy says he's done it.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=903864&highlight=durango
Click to expand...

possibly I got a alternate part number when I ordered my 99 2500 ram MC. Cause it in no way could fit.

But I did order the 99 durango last night from kragn.com f6$ with res. and called cardone this morning and they verified that, that model has two fitments, on that has the 15/16" bore and then another ( http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=A1C&MfrPartNumber=132967&PartType=230&PTSet=A ) that has the 1.125 stepped up to a even larger bore (maybe front is larger then rear?). in the pictures this part number shows one that looks much more like the stock WJ one. SO hopfully it will fit.

I will post later in the week when I know if it will or wont work.
 
That's one of the problems we have when trying to upgrade our Jeeps with parts that are unknown. As an example, You and another poster have pointed out the Durango is a 15/16 bore--you went a step further to verify, through a vendor, that there are two applications, one using 15/16, and one using 1.125 bore ID. You also were told that the 1.125 bore MC has a step in the bore. None of my "research" has uncovered that little fact. Is it really so? Did the guy you were talking to really understand/know what he was saying? Many times parts-house people have told me my "vehicle at the time" didn't have the part that I was after, when I had just removed it from an otherwise stock (I owned it since new) truck. In the end, the only way to really know is to buy and install it yourself.
The two-step MC's generally were used move the brake pads, of a disc system, rapidly from the piston's resting position to rotor contact, then use the smaller piston to gain leverage for actually applying the pressure to the rotor. These were used in systems that were touted as "drag free" calipers, meaning the pistons returned to the bottom of the bore upon brake release. Most calipers maintain contact with the rotors all the time, causing minute drag that "affects" gas mileage. If the Durango does in fact have a stepped bore, I wouldn't think it would be good candidate for your and my intended use. And, of course, there could be another reason they have a stepped bore; I'd want to know why before I would use in my application.
This guy says he's installed the Dodge MC's, and both the Ram 1500-3500 and the Durango fit the late model XJ booster.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=903864

And please document what your doing WELL, so you can pass on needed FACT. Thanks!
 
xjbubba said:
You also were told that the 1.125 bore MC has a step in the bore. None of my "research" has uncovered that little fact. Is it really so? Did the guy you were talking to really understand/know what he was saying?
Click to expand...

Well I called Cardone, the manufacture, and asked the ASE cert tech that they have on thier tech line. He went to the actual manufa diamension sheet to get it and then he said and its a stepped bore. I didnt write done the larger step size, but it did get larger.
 
That doesn't sound good, for our intended application. I would assume the rear piston (front brakes?) is the larger of the two.
 
xjbubba said:
That doesn't sound good, for our intended application. I would assume the rear piston (front brakes?) is the larger of the two.
Click to expand...

Why is that not good? I have ford dual piston front Monster calipers, and then rear - K20 front calipers. I think that may be a good swap for this?
 
It may be fine--however, I would like to predict the effect of pushing less pressure to the front (if it has the larger piston) versus more pressure to the rear. The two-step design, if that means different size pistons for the front vs rear, would be part of a total design approach. It may be a way of doing away with a proportioning valve, if, for instance, the rear has the larger piston, which results in less pressure vs the front. I don't know, and would want to know the engineer's thinking before I used it.:dunno:
 
Gopjeep; I've read and re-read 100's of posts regarding "which MC?", including the ones you sited above. I'm sorry, but no where in those posts do I see an unequivocal "I installed an e350 MC out of a '97 Ford onto my '95 or newer, XJ, ZJ, WJ, dual diaphragm booster, and it bolted right up with minimum mods, and works great (or at all). The only references to actual installs are with the early e350 MC's onto older single diaphragm boosters. After you questioned me, above, I did a quick look-up on Napaonline, and observed the late model e350 is used on Ford dual-diaphragm boosters. But no one I've read has actually installed the e350 on a WJ booster( or dual-diaphragm XJ, etc,). Additionally, I think the latter ones are 1.250 bore--too big, in my opinion, for 1/2-ton brakes, like I have, and most are trying to install. I'm currently using a 1.125 bore MC that works fine. I think moving up to 1.250 would be too much volumn for 1/2-ton brakes.
 
xjbubba said:
I'm currently using a 1.125 bore MC that works fine. I think moving up to 1.250 would be too much volumn for 1/2-ton brakes.
Click to expand...
\
SO what booster and master are you running?
 
I'm currently using the stock '88 single-diaphragm XJ booster and an '76 Mercury Marque MC intended for hydro boost, 4-wheel discs. This won't work on a WJ booster.
 
xjbubba said:
Gopjeep; I've read and re-read 100's of posts regarding "which MC?", including the ones you sited above. I'm sorry, but no where in those posts do I see an unequivocal "I installed an e350 MC out of a '97 Ford onto my '95 or newer, XJ, ZJ, WJ, dual diaphragm booster, and it bolted right up with minimum mods, and works great (or at all). The only references to actual installs are with the early e350 MC's onto older single diaphragm boosters. After you questioned me, above, I did a quick look-up on Napaonline, and observed the late model e350 is used on Ford dual-diaphragm boosters. But no one I've read has actually installed the e350 on a WJ booster( or dual-diaphragm XJ, etc,). Additionally, I think the latter ones are 1.250 bore--too big, in my opinion, for 1/2-ton brakes, like I have, and most are trying to install. I'm currently using a 1.125 bore MC that works fine. I think moving up to 1.250 would be too much volumn for 1/2-ton brakes.
Click to expand...

Sorry that is my bad as had not taken into account the differences between the single and dual boosters. We only have the dual boosters in my country ;)
 
Gojeep said:
Sorry that is my bad as had not taken into account the differences between the single and dual boosters. We only have the dual boosters in my country ;)
Click to expand...

Then that means that since you only have dual boosters in your country :dunno: that theres no boosters there that will take the E-350 MC.. :twak:
 
Ok well the durango / dakota MC will not fit on the WJ booster. Not only is the push rod sig. different lengths but the bolt pattern on the Durango one is a 3.2 spacing CL. ANd the WJ is a 3.5 CL. Even if you were to open up the holes there would be very little flange left for even a washer to grab on. Then the outside bore size on the Durango is to large to fit in the WJ booster.

SO No go personally on the Ram 1500 and the durrango. Even though both of them had the same issues of why they dont fit, so if you wanted to swap either of those from one dodge to the other they would fit, just not on a WJ booster.

WHats next?
 
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This topic sucks.

I gave up and put my ZJ MC back on after dealing with all the "I've heard..." replies. It has more than enough force to adequately stop my D60/14ff with 39.5s, but not enough flow to make it happen within the proper amount of pedal movement.

With a ZJ dual-diaphragm booster, the E350 did not fit, the Dodge 2500 MC bolted on with minimal filing to the holes but the reservoir did not clear the hood when fully closed. I may be able to remove some bracing from under the hood and make it work.

If someone finds a combination that actually works, we need to delete all these garbage threads and make a new one where only people who have actually done these swaps successfully are allowed to post.
 
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