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Double shear track bar with d30 ?s

jakec

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Alexandria, MN
Specs: 87 xj with 4.5" of lift in front, JCR offroad "1 ton" steering.

After installing the JCR tierod and draglink, the weakness of my once beefy looking trackbar became very apparent. I would like to go to a double shear mount on the "frame" side, and then use heims both top and bottom. The catch is that I want a straight track bar, so I will be raising the mount on the frame side about 2-3" (to clear the diff cover) and would like to do the same on the axle mount, as the angles are about perfect right now. But, the way it looks to me, the only logical place to mount the tracbar on the axle end would be about 2" closer to the driver side, and about 2-3" up. The trackbar is already about 2-3" shorter than the draglink, and if I do this, the trackbar will be about 4-5" shorter than the draglink, which I know is bad. Would this be acceptable for a mostly trail rig, as long as I keep them parallel, or are there any other ingenious ways of utilizing a longer trackbar without interfering with a knuckle to knuckle tie-rod? FYI, I am not running a stabilizer, and the mount has been ground off. I can post up some pics tonight.
 
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IMHO that would be acceptable even for a DD. Only time I think the shorter trackbar might cause a noticeable issue is if you were doing high-speed, high-travel stuff like desert prerunning. Otherwise get the angles the same and you should be fine.
 
If I understand you correctly, the trade off for running a short trackbar will be "some" added bumpsteer, all angles kept in parallel. It wasn't a big problem for me on my 89, which was at 6" with highsteer and a daily driver, very minimal, in fact.

Having run heims and SF joints on the trackbar, my recommendation is to use a flex joint from Summit Machine. Cheaper than good heims, greasable and rebuildable. The race material is better than RE's so they last longer between rebuilds too, or so I've been told. I only had about 20K miles on my steering/trackbar setup when I sold my Jeep, and they were still tight.
 
I can confirm what XJeeper says about bumpsteer. I put on the (now) JKS build-a-trackbar kit with the over-the-axle axle end mount and the modified frame end mount. There is noticable bumpsteer when the suspension cycles, whether by braking or by hard acceleration.

This was my daily driver for several months. It can be done as long as you've got your wits about you.
 
One thing I've noticed when shortening the track bar, is that the passenger side droop will be reduced. With the steering wheel centered, and locked, my driver's side will droop until the springs drop away from the the upper seat; however, my passenger side will not drop far enough to unload the spring at all. I shortened my track bar to fit between the spring and the normal spot on the frame (2-2-1/2" shorter when building my D44 front). I also lengthened my drag link when I moved my steering box closer to the frame (WJ steering box). I'm in the process of re-engineering my frame drop bracket, hoping to lengthen my track bar enough to get my passenger-side droop back.
 
I used the JKS over the axle mount, and remade the frame end to move the track bar back 1.5 inches so it's over the axle. shortened a rusty's HD bar about 4 inches and welded in some bungs, installed 5/8th heims, works like a champ.

Disclaimer, Trail only XJ.

steeringa.jpg
 
Wow, thanks so much for all the info!!

XJBubba, I assume you are using a single shear setup? I don't see how droop could be affected with the bolts horizontal.

Xjeeper, the sf joints do look better, but I have a pair of 3/4" heims just sitting here. I might build it so that I can switch to sf joints in the future.

DaffyXJ- You're setup looks very similar to what I want to do. I am wondering what the benefit is to moving the trackbar over the axle. Is it just increased rigidity? I was going to see if I could actually move the frame mount location forward a little, if it cleared the tierod, to gain a little more diff cover clearance. I was wondering what the negatives may be of doing that.

Jake
 
My track bar mounts are home brew double shear, heavy duty:

My theory is that the difference in lengths between the track bar and drag link result in an argument between the two to see which one is going to reposition the axle first.
The track bar, being shorter, wants to move the axle towards the driver's side quicker (shorter radius) than the drag link. Remember, with the steering wheel locked straight ahead, the drag link is effectively attached to the frame at one end, and the axle, via the knuckles, at the other. So the drag link acts like a long track bar. Since it's longer than the track bar, it tends to move the axle towards the driver's side much slower. With my set-up, the track bar and the drag link are parallel at normal drive-height, so the difference in length is not noticed until enough droop(or compression) has occurred to cause significant differences in the angles of the two components.
 
XJBubba,

If I had looked at your specs, I wouldn't have suspected that you were confusing a single shear with a double shear. Sorry about that! What you described is interesting, I'm going to have to run that through my brain for a while. If the knuckles were fixed (no steering), that would make perfect sense, but with the knuckles able to pivot, wouldn't what you described just cause bump steer? I don't see how that could actually cause things to bind up, but yet, it does have me thinking about it.

Jake
 
I observed this issue the last time I cycled my suspension in the garage; meaning she was jacked-up on one side at a time to simulate "stuffed" and "drooped". Afterwords it donned on me that the steering wheel was locked, not allowing the Pittman to move, and possibly, "adjust" for the binding. I agree, it's similar, if not the same, as bump steer. Not sure if this is "curable", so other's thought on this issue would be appreciated. I'd hate to be "polishing a turd" here.
 
That would make sense, because if you were cycling the suspension on a cement floor, with the Jeep stationary and the pitman arm locked, the knuckles would not be able to rotate at all really. It would be similar to trying to steer a stationary vehicle with no power steering.

And before someone chips in and says "You idiot, of course the knuckle couldn't move, the steering was locked."... if the tire that was on the cement had been on casters, I bet it would have slowly pivoted the knuckle as he jacked up the other side, due to the different lengths of the draglink and track bar, and allowed a lot more articulation.

Maybe I'm just off my rocker, but I think this is starting to make sense. If all I have to worry about is bump steer while articulating, I can definitely deal with it.
 
To clarify the conditions of my "test", there were no tires on the jeep. No sway bar links, and the shocks were disconnected. But the fact the steering wheel was locked, would keep the knuckles from "normalizing", if that were possible.
 
So much for my lengthy explanation, huh. I guess it still makes sense. I think it's gonna be a try it and see how it works sort of deal.
 
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