dana44/9inch and a doubler

ok to start i have a 94 xj, 4.0, ax15, 231, dana 30 detroit and 4.56. 8.25 with aussie locker. 4.56. now for suspension i have rustys 6.5 coils with 2" spacers. rusty's 6.5" spring packs. and worn out shocks. an sye kit on the 231 also. 35x12.50r15 x-terrains. i have homebrew longarms they are built just like the rusty's set-up.

now to the issue... everytime i go wheel i snap a shaft. and i would like to be able to do some serious rock crawling. i live in nebraska but i go to tuttle. and want to go to disney. and other parks. i have a set of 37's and would like to be capable of max 39.5. now having a light jeep and not enough power to be a throttle junkie. here are the axels i am looking at.

a dana 44 and ford 9 inch out of a 79 ford bronco. i found them here on this site. i don't know much about these axles and that is why i am turning to you guys. i would like to mate my 231 with a 205. i was thinking doing 4.88 gears in the axles and detroit lockers. since i currently have them and they work good for me. are these axles compatible with the tire size and full lockers? also how much wider would my axle width be? i am also looking into stretching my wheelbase back by flipping my springs and gas tank but that is a whole different story. are the brackets able to be taken off of these axles to have new brackets made for the 4 link? trackbar bracket and so forth. this axle capable of hi-steer?
i would like to do this right the first time. so any input is needed i do know about uni-body bracing and it will all be beefed up.
thanks in advance
dan::

Check the FAQ section of this forum, it answers most of your questions already.

Im sure u can run a 44/9 on 39s, but you need chromos. i had a question for you. do u snap shafts on 35s or 37s? and what shaft the 8.25 or d30?
-Patrick:smoker:

can you weld? because if you can (and have access to the material) you can do it. i have the front D44 out of a 79 bronco waiting to go in you should be able to fab some brackets there is enough room to work with i have hi steer and i also have a bracket for ram assist on mine. also from the research ive done the spring perches on the 9" in the rear are a 1/4in different which make the swap ALOT easier. i havent looked into lockers yet so i would know about that yet. The axles are a great bit wider youll look no where close to stock.

snapping shafts on 35's and both axles. yes welding is not a problem and im going to be buying psc the truss and link kit for both axles. also i heard something about the 79' axle tube is missing tube under the spring bucket on drivers side about 4 inches? is this true i want to completely strip the axle and start fresh. and chromo's and ctm are in the future when i upgrade to the 39.5 but i have either two shafts to break or two sets of tires to wear out both basically new 35 xterrains and 37 mt/r

spring bucket? i had no spring bucket.... where the stock radius arms mount may be missing tube i am going to use the radius arms and build a platform over the radius arms and mounting the coil bucket on the platform

Yes, the '79 D44 should have the cast brackets which can't be used on anything other than a radius arm setup. The Spicer D44 front shafts will break just as quick or quicker with 37's than your D30 shafts did with 35's. It's best to wait until you can spring for the chromo axles and good joints or you're really not upgrading anything. Almost the same thing with the 9". Those are 31 spline shafts and if you're regularly breaking your 8.25 shafts, you need to get a 35 spline locker and upgrade to 35 spline alloy shafts for the 9". If you don't do the axle shaft upgrades, you'll be doing a lot of work for not much of a strength upgrade.

I don't know anything about a doubling a 205 with a 231. It would have to be cheap or you might as well just spring for a 4 to 1 for the 231 t-case.

How about: Rather than upgrading axles, learn to drive first. If you arent doing any "serious rock crawling" and your breaking shafts everytime you go out, you have more problems than a 44/9" will fix.

hjeepxj said:

How about: Rather than upgrading axles, learn to drive first. If you arent doing any "serious rock crawling" and your breaking shafts everytime you go out, you have more problems than a 44/9" will fix.

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:bs:

C'mon, he says he wheels. Anyone with 35's on a D30 with Spicer shafts and 260X joints is going to break almost everytime he breaths hard on the trail. Sure, you can make those axles last for awhile with 35's if you're really, really careful and somewhat lucky. He wants to do "serious rockcrawling", but it sounds like he's already doing "moderate rockcrawling".

Goatman said:

:bs:

C'mon, he says he wheels. Anyone with 35's on a D30 with Spicer shafts and 260X joints is going to break almost everytime he breaths hard on the trail. Sure, you can make those axles last for awhile with 35's if you're really, really careful and somewhat lucky. He wants to do "serious rockcrawling", but it sounds like he's already doing "moderate rockcrawling".

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I'll agree here...I was popping 297x joints every 2nd or 3rd trip out on 33's, locked f/r, just from getting in stupid situations where everything was all kinds of bound up. Those joints just don't like to transmit torque with the wheels turned, and stock vs. stock you're not gaining anything at all with a D44 if that's what you're breaking.

9"...well...I've blown up one 9" gearset and one 9" LSD carrier in separate circumstances, with an anemic 302 and stock 3.55s on 35" tires. This greatly reduces my faith in this axle, however I realize that mine is a rare occurance.

I don't think there's a doubler kit for the 231-205 out there right now, and honestly I don't think I'd want that kind of weight hanging on the back of a 231 planetary housing either. You might want to look into using a D300 instead, as there are kits that allow you to do this with the 231 doubler and not have to use a separate flip kit. I'm running this now in my XJ (with the D300 non-flipped though) and it's a fantastic setup.

i may have the numbers wrong with the 205.. with the 300. 205 was original plan until i searched. now as far as learning to drive? ill meet you at any park with my tirdy and lets see.. now i want to do this right the first time. and yes just slightly entered rock crawling and love it. but the 30 won't hold up. i can fabricate and roommate is a professional welder. now with that said. cost effective way to run 39.5 max tire in rocks.. lets say at disney, tuttle, would like to go to the badlands. thanks for feedback.

evrydayXJ said:

now with that said. cost effective way to run 39.5 max tire in rocks.. lets say at disney, tuttle, would like to go to the badlands. thanks for feedback.

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Define "cost effective"?

The best cost effective way to run 39.5's in the rocks is to get some 35 spline axle shafts, then find something to put them in. If that's the tire size you're after, you need to forget 30/31 spline stuff or you'll just be in the same situtation you're in now.

I guess the overall cheapest way would be to buy a junkyard front D60 and either a 14 bolt or D70 for the rear. Put a lunchbox locker in the front and weld the rear, and run them full width........that's the cheapest way to go.

evrydayXJ said:

i may have the numbers wrong with the 205.. with the 300. 205 was original plan until i searched. now as far as learning to drive? ill meet
you at any park with my tirdy and lets see..

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OK...Rausch Creek, PA in the 2nd or 3rd week of April. Les go. I've been meaning to get out there again anyway. I've extended this same offer to another guy in the pictures forum, maybe you and him can both come out and we'll make it a big :: run.

Fact of the matter is, 297/760x joints just don't have the torque capacity at full turning. Not a single one of the joints that I broke, failed under full throttle kinda situations. If you want to run the reduction you're looking for, and the necessary torque applied at the wheels, you'll need Dana 60-sized hardware at the yokes. Whether this means swapping in a whole Dana 60 or a D60/D44 hybrid is up to your budget and fabrication abilities.

Not trying to bash your junk or wheeling style, but there are certain physical limitations you meet, and this whole sport is about trying to find the most economical and practical way to avoid those limitations. In my case, the solution was to get a D60 up front and forget about everything else.

Having been to tuttle about 6 times while going to school at UNL
Having been to Attica twice


I dont see the need for larger than 35's...

however - for your front axle to live longer - call Roundeyes and have them ship you a box with some Alloy USA shafts in it.
I honestly believe that a D30 with alloys and good joints will live at tuttle for as many trips as you can get down there.
you might try talking with these guys on here:
http://www.justjeepsofomaha.net/forums/ and asking what their setup is. i know that some of them are on 35's and Just Jeeps makes monthly runs to Tuttle...


If you're dead set on using that 44, make sure to include $$$ for alloy shafts or you wont gain anything other than less ground clearance...
I spent a boat load putting a 44 in my junk only to run through 6 stock shafts before buying alloys, and since buying alloys - havent broken...

The 9 is a good axle in some ways - the gears are a strong setup, but im on borrowed time with my 31 spline stock 9" shafts. the other big issue that I have with the 9 is the low low low pinion... ill never put another one in my junk untill i can afford a truehi9 unit...


personally - id give it another go around with the 30 and the 8.25 after throwing alloys in it before putting the time and energy into the 44/9...

:flame: well there are other options as well.... you beef up the 35 and the 30. Superior Kit for the rear and higher spline count and harder metal compound for the front. I have and 2000 XJ with about 9'' of lift only running 35's and also X-terrians and I am hard on mine but I didnt have to this because I didnt break anything before but I went ahead and utilized a superior axle kit. With a detroit. I havent a problem out anything yet. Try that if you stay stock lookin but if you want the 44/9 set is cool as well

good luck

Just asking a question here. Isn't the nine inch axles held in by bolts at the hub and not by c-clips as in the 8.25 (that slide out when they break, thats why I won't use a c-clip axle NO BRAKES)? Also the 44 and 9" are easier to mod and cheaper. The front d30 has a uni bearing were as the 44 already has hubs.

I ran a 9" with a spool, 4.57 gearing and standard 31 spline shafts with 35" BFG MT's for a few years and it was used for 8 years before that the same way, no breakage, and that was on a 1987 MJ. Also had the 30 up front had very few problems with that EXCEPT IT DID BEND.

I am going to run the 9" and 44 front in my new 94 XJ because I have them and because they are a better base from which to work from. I have never been able to bend the gusseted 9" and have never bent a 44. I have bent many d30 axles, vacuum and non. But I have also learnt to use my right foot a little better.

i really would'nt mind staying at 35's. if i put in alloy shafts my ring and pinon become my weak link, also my detroit locker, thats an expensive unit i would rather not replace. am i correct in saying this? and alloy shafts and ctm are going to cost me around 1300? for shafts front and rear?
i have only had one rear shaft break and it was not a complete break, twisted actually. i think the rear will hold with alloys.
but as i wheel more and more i want to do bigger and badder things everytime i go, so i figure if i get big axles they will last years as to just building more into my current axles and in the end not have what i want and have tons of money you dont get back when you sell the pile of parts when your done?
i have two trucks so time is not an issue or drivablity?
if i went with a 44/9 i could do detroit and 4.88 and alloys in the 44 and do alloys and a 35 spline locker? also 4.88 i believe this will hold to 39.5 tires. i only have a 4.0 so i can't be heavy on gas. the 4.88 will be good highway gear even with only 35-37 which are the two sets of tires i currently have that are almost new, i have to go through them first.

i xzc

i really would'nt mind staying at 35's. if i put in alloy shafts my ring and pinon become my weak link, also my detroit locker, thats an expensive unit i would rather not replace. am i correct in saying this? and alloy shafts and ctm are going to cost me around 1300? for shafts front and rear?
i have only had one rear shaft break and it was not a complete break, twisted actually. i think the rear will hold with alloys.
but as i wheel more and more i want to do bigger and badder things everytime i go, so i figure if i get big axles they will last years as to just building more into my current axles and in the end not have what i want and have tons of money you dont get back when you sell the pile of parts when your done?
i have two trucks so time is not an issue or drivablity?
if i went with a 44/9 i could do detroit and 4.88 and alloys in the 44 and do alloys and a 35 spline locker? also 4.88 i believe this will hold to 39.5 tires. i only have a 4.0 so i can't be heavy on gas. the 4.88 will be good highway gear even with only 35-37 which are the two sets of tires i currently have that are almost new, i have to go through them first.
i figure this can all be had at 3000-3500, i can do all fabricating and setting up of gears ect.. so install will be free?
which would be the best 44 for me? i want to use my current 4 link, will build new lowers. and want to flip springs to get mnore wheelbase, i know about the moving of the tank, but my roommate can make me one so with that said its not a problem.
thanks for feedback
dan~

if youre looking to go to 37-39.5" tires DO NOT listen to the people telling you to dump money into the d30 or the 8.25, youll have shafts for big $$$ and then youre going to start breaking your r&p gears. save your money up and just do what goatman suggested, d60 front or a 14 bolt/d70/sterling rear. more money up front but youll save alot of money, time, and stress. you can get a d44 front with cromo shafts to survive on 39's but not for long in the rocks, i have a f250 d44 up front on 39's and it does fine but i dont play very hard in the rocks and i NEVER get it with the tires turned any way but straight. ignore the web wheelers that have never had tires bigger then 35's or any other axles then what came with the jeep.