Tired of "Sport" cyclists

[WB9YZU]

I am sick and tired of "Sport" Cyclists. You know the ones. Got the fancy jerseys, lay down handle bars and rude attitude.

They know the traffic laws, but it appears that when they get on their $600 bicycles they no longer have a clue what they are or care about courtesy. I just want to stand on the corner, stop every single one of these MFers and give them a bicycle handbook. Either that or stand there with a bundle of 3 foot sticks and occasionaly throw one through the wheel of a knob who rolled through a stop sign at speed- j/k.

Some genius designed a bike path here about 10yrs back, good design- it crosses a minor, but heavily used highway at 4 uncontrolled intersections. At rush hour, it is bad enough deal with the traffic which is predictable, let alone the traffic from the trail which goes it's own way and will decide that they have the right of way at anytime. As the area has grown up, every year the traffic gets more hecktic. More sport cyclists, more motorists.

Every darn year, our area hosts the Ironman contest. What a pain. We not only get treated to the local knobs who don't give a fudge about anything but their training for the 3 months prior to the contest, but a whole day of blocked roads while knobs from out of town come to play also.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not "anti-bicycle". I too enjoy it from time to time. We have folks around here who commute to/from work. Those folks just want to get from point A to B as safe as possible, and they by and large obey the rules. Kids don't know yet that no one will punish them for being knobs, so they also obey the rules. If you ride a bicycle on the street, it is no longer a "Toy" and regardless of whether you are out for your dayly workout or going for groceries, you need to obey the same trafic laws as everyone else. If you come to a stop sign, you stop. If at a light, you stop and don't go again untill it is green. If you need to "Take a lane" to be safe at an intersection, do so, but be courteous about it. Don't ride two abreast, it's not cool, it is annoying to the 6 cars behnd you who could be traveling 55, but are stuck at doing 10.

IMO, if you own a bicycle, you should be required to pass a safety test, including a practical test, and every single bike should have a license plate that is renewable every 2 years to help pay for all these bicycle trails and road improvements so that we can safely get along.

[5-90]

Concur. We get that out here as well...

Last time I looked, if you're riding a bicycle on the roadway, you're subjecct to the same laws and rules as motor vehicles. However, I just KNOW that if I run over one of these fartknockers in an intersection when he didn't stop, that it's ME that's going to get crucified.

Makes me want to do it anyhow, and then back up and finish the job. I have nothing against bicycles, but these asshats who just don't think the rules apply to them really get up my nose...

Don't even get me started on kids on those "motorised scooters" - not only do they not follow traffic rules, but put a damn muffler on the thing, willya?

5-90

[riverfever]

Wow...I just had this conversation yesterday. I agree whole heartedly. Cyclists should be courteous while riding. Two abreast, or taking up too much lane, riding against traffic, not obeying the laws as if you were in a car are all lame.

I just started training again myself. I am probably the most coureous rider out there. I ride up and down a mountain pass about 3x a week and it can be sketchy. A lot of people say I'm nuts for riding it but I don't have much else up here. I hug that white line and, if room allows, I ride inside it. I'm very thankful when drivers wait until they have room to come around. Most of them out here are great and go much further over than they need to. I always give them a thank you wave.

However...I do feel the need to play devils advocate here. Just like there are asshat cyclists that think the rules don't apply to them, there are asshat drivers that think that the same rules of the road don't apply to cyclists. Back in St. Louis, I had all kinds of things thrown at me from some fatsos half eaten cheesburger to a full Big Gulp that I thought broke several ribs. All because I was riding a bike.

Bike trails are great I guess but for someone who is training hard and needs to do longer distances, intervals where they are on/off the gas, tactics, etc, they simply don't work. If I was gonna do an easy cool down ride...maybe. Nowadays, I just ride the rollers in the garage on easy days.

Yesterday I had a guy in a Superduty that wanted to come around. Straight road and not an oncoming car as far as the eye could see (400ish yards). He waits til he gets right next to me and then floors it so I get a nice cloud of black smoke.

Sloppy ethics bothers me when I'm in my Jeep and see it. I see just as many idiots in vehicles while riding as I see idiots riding while I'm driving. It's a 2 way street.

-river

[5-90]

No argument at all - it's a two-way street.

However, we've got a surplus of cyclists out here who think "share the road" means "everything for me," and I'm getting REALLY tired of that.

Riv - from what you're saying, if we had cyclists out here who all behaved like you, I'd certainly have no reason to quarrel. However, most of what we get out here is ego-driven, and that get bloody damn tedious...

5-90

[Fergie]

Try living in Flagstaff, AZ.

Bikers think they own the place, when we psecifically designed an entire Urban Trail System that goes to every part of the city, and they STILL ride on the main streets.

All through college I rode from home to town, sometimes upwards of 5 miles each way, and was always very watchful of cars, and always gave them the right of way.

Remember: CARS ARE BIGGER THAN YOU, THEY WILL RUN YOU OVER!

[drifto77]

Don't even get me started on kids on those "motorised scooters" - not only do they not follow traffic rules, but put a damn muffler on the thing, willya?

5-90
I hate these idiots.
Hey... its got a motor, weather it is a gas or electric, IMHO.. it should have a plate and require a D.L.!!!!

[Idiot Wind]

I am sick and tired of "Sport" Cyclists. You know the ones. Got the fancy jerseys, lay down handle bars and rude attitude.

They know the traffic laws, but it appears that when they get on their $600 bicycles they no longer have a clue what they are or care about courtesy.
$600? man, these days I think that gets you a bike helmet and some fancy shoes. I agree with your post though, not sure what the deal is with road bikers. I find Mountain bikers to be the friendliest folks on the road however those road bikers are a completely different story, mixed batch.

I remember fondly of the time I was riding to school and an automobile approached me, rolled down the window and the passenger acted like he wanted to ask me a question, and then wham! pushed my sorry as* over. Wound up about 30ft inside somebodys lawn. good times.

[mdl]

All I gota say is stay on the fawkin side walk... such a pain in the ass to pass omg..

[Rev Den]

All I gota say is stay on the fawkin side walk...

Will you pay my ticket if I am caught on the sidewalk? $50 in Chicago as an adult.

Rev

[Matthew Currie]

All I gota say is stay on the fawkin side walk... such a pain in the ass to pass omg..

I was agreeing with the posts on this thread until that one.

I ride a bike a lot, on the road. It's a vehicle. Get used to it.

It's illegal to ride on the sidewalks in most towns around here, in the rare instances where there are sidewalks, and for good reason.

I try to ride courteously, legally, etc. and obey the traffic laws. One of the traffic laws is that I stay as far right as "practicable." One of the other ones is that you ***ing well wait to pass me until it's safe, just as you would for any other vehicle which moves slowly, but is entitled to use the road. It's really easy to get along that way. People around here are generally courteous both as riders and drivers. The roads are narrow, and sometimes you have to cool your heels for a few hundred feet. I still ride faster than tractors, road graders, roadside mowers and a few other things, and a few hundred feet at 20 instead of 50 doesn't really add up to anything at all.

I do agree with some of the earlier posts that a lot of road bikers are snobbish, discourteous and arrogant, including to other road bikers. But it's not universal.

[mdl]

I've rode my bike on the side walk for my whole life. No problems. Maybe because here in MA It's expected That cyclists use the side walk. You can get a ticket for using the roads where there is a side walk.

Alternatively, it is technically legal for me to ride my motorcycle on the sidewalk but I don't do it.

[azdesertrhino]

Here in Tucson, some of the bonehead bicycle riders decide to ride in the CAR lanes even though there is a 6 foot bicycle lane for them to have all to themselves.

[RichP]

We get them here in the pocono's, if you get behind a pack that are tooling down state hiway 209 which has NO passing zones but is a 50mph road it takes an additional 30 min to get from where I get on to the turnpike, normally it's a 15 min drive that can take up 45 min...
We're probably one of the few places that does not want the roads resurfaced smooth, when they do it draws them like flies to $hit....
Give me a farm tractor anyday, least they don't go very far...

[kubtastic]

Back home, I would usually just follow the gap in between the two yellow lines marking the middle of Mulholland Hwy, and just duck my head in hopes drivers could see me as they drove west facing a setting sun.

[WB9YZU]

I ride a bike a lot, on the road. It's a vehicle. Get used to it.

It's illegal to ride on the sidewalks in most towns around here, in the rare instances where there are sidewalks, and for good reason.

Yup, a bicycle is a vehicle, not a toy or a piece of workout equipment, though you can get quite a workout :D
I do find it a shame that many of the "Sport" cyclists do not use the bike path. We have perfectly good bike paths which were built for their pleasure with gas tax and RTF money, yet a number of them refuse to use them, opting instead to use the more dangerous roadway.

WI is also like that on sidewalks. Except for children where they are essentually learning, riding on the sidewalk is not permitted. Folks do it, and if one of the few bicycle cops on Campus catch you, it is a fine. Still, like most bicycle things, it goes largely unenforced here.

I try to be courteous as a motorist, perhaps because I have an sensitivity to the issue. Here bikes are told to ride 3ft from the curb ( to avoid catching their peddle on a curb) and motorists have to give them 3ft. Riding two abreast is not permitted, yet you will hardly ever see a group ride where they are not paired up sometimes 3 abreast. Most commuter cyclists ignore the 3ft rule and ride far right. Me? When I ride, I apply the basics. If I can ride on the shoulder, I do, if the shoulder sucks, I ride far right on the pavement, unless I need to get in the far left lane (blvd) to make a left turn, then I take that lane just long enough to execute my turn, and I'm back to the far right. Stop signs are just that. I stop, cycle the peddle for a power stroke, look around, and go if clear (or if light is Green). I even use hand signals; though I have to get a chuckle when someone thinks I am waiving "HI" :D

I saw some signs that said "Ghost Bikes" posted all along that bike trail near my house. So I looked it up, it was a BFW (Bicycle Federation of Wisconsin) add to sensitize cars to the plight of cyclists (:gonnablow ). So being the azzhat I am, I wrote them stating what I observed their cycle buddies doing, the rules, linked the WI DOT website and waited to see what came back.

The reply that came back was mixed, though I did notice all the "Ghost Bike" signs were gone the next afternoon :confused1

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

In Colorado, we get bike events all the time in my town. There are certain roads that they will use for these runs (aways the same ones, right by my house...) and they put up stupid signs like "Bike event in progress" or whatever... Like I couldn't see the 35 bikers in front of me taking up the WHOLE road. It wouldn't bother me if I could pass them safely, but most of these roads are curvy or have blind spots that you shouldn't pass at, so what the hell are you supposed to do? Anyway, I agree, and can relate.

Being a biker myself (no street riding, though), I also hate it when you're on a trail and people have NO trail etiquette what so ever. I'll ride some pretty easy trails on the weekends and people will take their little kids or grandma and grandpa... How many times do I have to say "ON YOUR LEFT!" for them to move? It's just ridiculous how oblivious people can be anywhere today.

[5-90]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

I guess because bikes are considered "vehicles" on the road, and they have to abide to all the same traffic laws as cars. A car won't be driving on the left, so why would a bike? But, I do agree with you... I'd rather be on the left anyday so you can see the cars passing you.

[j99xj]

The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that bicycles don't have to pay any kind of tax. For autos, there is a registration tax, drivers license tax, and damn near a 50 cent tax on gasoline (per gallon).

Now bikes won't have to pay a gas tax (obviously), but they should be required to pay a registration fee just like everybody else. My motto is, fair taxes for all, or no taxes at all.

[WB9YZU]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

Interesting...I was never taught that Left shoulder thing.
You always move with traffic, not against it.
We rode sidewalk up to the point where we started biking to school (about 3rd grade). After that, we pretty much road on the street. Always, always with traffic, never against it. If we were on the street, we were usually balls to the wall and were doing 15-20mph. Since the cars in residential sections did 25-30, they had plenty of time to scope us out and avoid us. If you ride against the traffic, say those same speeds, the approaching driver has less time to evaluate the situation. In their perception, you suddenly "bloom" into existance which gives them no time at all to react. In addition, in a against the flow scenerio, any collision is not the difference in speeds, but the sum of the speeds

[WB9YZU]

The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that bicycles don't have to pay any kind of tax. For autos, there is a registration tax, drivers license tax, and damn near a 50 cent tax on gasoline (per gallon).


I'd like to see license plates come back here. When I bought my last bike, it cost me $6 for a registation sticker. I asked how long it was good for and the Officer replied that it was good for the life of the bike. You don't raise too much revenue that way ;)

[kubtastic]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

When a driver makes a left-hand turn, they probably won't be looking well over their left shoulder for you coming from the wrong way.

[kubtastic]

I'd like to see license plates come back here. When I bought my last bike, it cost me $6 for a registation sticker. I asked how long it was good for and the Officer replied that it was good for the life of the bike. You don't raise too much revenue that way ;)

why not a sticker for my shoes so I can use a sidewalk? I can see wanting to extend licensing requirements to non-motorized users, but the roads just don't offer fair use in the first place.

[WB9YZU]

why not a sticker for my shoes so I can use a sidewalk? I can see wanting to extend licensing requirements to non-motorized users, but the roads just don't offer fair use in the first place.

Not a bad idea ;)
Here, the property owner whose frontage the sidewalk passes pays for the installation of the sidewalk and for any future repair. Same with curb and gutter, or any street improvements. Now, if property owners could pass that expense onto the pedestrian, where it belongs, we'd be better off :D

What about funding of bicycle trails? Is it fair that fuel is taxed to pay for those? Auto license fees go for driver education, road maintance and building, enforcement, atv trails, bicycle trails and a host of other niceties. Bicycle fees go where? The city, who does squat with them. License them and have them pay for bicycle education, bicycle lanes, bicycle trails, trail/lane repair.

[Matthew Currie]

The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that bicycles don't have to pay any kind of tax. For autos, there is a registration tax, drivers license tax, and damn near a 50 cent tax on gasoline (per gallon).

Now bikes won't have to pay a gas tax (obviously), but they should be required to pay a registration fee just like everybody else. My motto is, fair taxes for all, or no taxes at all.

Try to count (you probably won't need both hands) the number of road using cyclists who do not already pay taxes. I drive something like 50 thousand miles a year here in Vermont, as well as riding the roads. I pay gas tax, use tax, sales tax, income tax and property tax. Property tax pays for the local roads in town. Why another tax to discourage responsible riding?

[Matthew Currie]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

BAsically, you were taught wrong. I always was taught to ride on the right, and it's much safer really. think about it. You are not a pedestrian on a bike. You are a small vehicle. If you meet traffic head-on, the only option, no matter how careful everyone is being, is either to stop or to get off the road, and that must be done within whatever time is allotted by the closing speed of the encounter. If you ride with traffic, the traffic behind you must slow down, but nobody ever has to stop.

Add to that the observation that when you come to an intersection you do not generally look for traffic coming the wrong way into your lane.

I can't put my finger on studies at the moment (too busy this morning to go googling) but I think there have been some studies that demonstrate that wrong-way riding is one of the major contributors to serious cycling accidents.

Where I ride usually, there are no bike lanes, in fact there are no useable shoulders. I would be happy with better shoulders and bike lanes up to a point, but if bike lanes and paths become, as they usually do, the place for baby carriages and rollerblades and dog walkers, then I, like many other riders, will shun them for any kind of real cycling. If you behave responsibly, the safest place is in the road, I think.

[RandyD71]

As a former cyclist and a recently renewed cyclist I can relate to both sides of the issue. I used to ride the side walk around here because of traffic. I used to until on a Friday night in December years ago I saw a car waiting to make a left turn down a street that I was about to cross. I saw the car and was sure it saw me. Man was i wrong. It made a left into me breaking my leg, ankle, and tearing my achilles tendon. I really enjoyed the six months of rehab to walk again and the end of my racing career.
Now I ride after work almost every night and I wear a helmet and use lights for drivers visibility. I do stop for red lights and ride the shoulder as much as possible, but if there is debris I move out around it. Sometimes I am not on the white line and a car will startle me as the because I didn't hear it until it was on top of me due to road and wind noise. I see some people riding wearing an I-Pod which is just plain stupid. They should be ticketed. Just my opinion though.

[RichP]

Funny. When I was growing up, you rode on the sidewalk if there was one, or on the LEFT shoulder when there wasn't.

I got a talking-to out here because I rode on the left shoulder. Doing so makes perfectly good sense to me - you can see them, they can see you. Since you don't have armour value in an "incident," you make up for that with awareness.

So, why the change?

5-90

I was taught the same way, face the traffic walking or biking so you can see the asshat thats about to hit you and maybe dodge out of the way or at least try to memorize the front plate, going with traffic your operating more on faith. In vacation areas like cape cod I've had to dodge when in the bike lane and some asshat makes a right hand turn w/o looking in his/her right hand mirror. Cape cod has extensive bike paths, all paved that even has stores and shops along it where they kiss the normal roads.

[planefixer]

We have the Olympic Training Center and a velodrome that hosts international cycling events here.That = a LOT of 2- wheeled asshats.Sometimes I encounter packs of 20-30 riders with absolutely no regard for the rules.Most seem to have a "how dare you drive where I'm riding my bicycle" type of attitude.There are some that actually abide by the laws but they are rare.:gonnablow :gonnablow :gonnablow

Example:
someone I know was stopped at a red light and some idiot cyclist came flying down a hill and made the turn too wide, slamming into this persons car.The cyclist actually tried to sue the driver even though he was just sitting at a red light waiting for it to turn green.Lawsuit was dismissed IIRC.

I think it should go one step further than just licensing and registration- they should be required to have some sort of insurance as well.

[riverfever]

That's interesting to hear. I guess I learned all my riding behaviors from from the first team I rode with. Not just which direction/side of the road to be on but also how to conduct yourself when doing so.

I have been hit and it was a near head on. I was grinding out an interval and doing about 35mph when a new female driver was approaching from the other direction and entered the turn lane to make a left (cutting across my path). I only recall grabbing a ton of brake but it just slid the ass end around. Witnesses say I hit the passengers bumper corner and did a flip and landed on my head. Helmet split in half. I woke up in the ER later on. A $3000ish bike was completely wasted and about a week later I was contacted by an attorney and found out the bish was suing ME for damages to her car. Luckily (I use that term loosely) the team did hire a lawyer and we counter sued for damages (I just wanted my bike back). A year and a half later I I got a check for about 2000 after fees. Even though I got incredible deals on bikes, I wish it had never happened.

Now days I ride solo most of the time. I did ride with my Principal a month back and he needed quite a bit of coaching for me to feel comfortable to be around him. Most riders can't hold a line and swerve all over. This is probably why they take up lane. They are not comfortable with you whizzing by at 55, 12 inches from them. As long as you can hold it....so can I.

[Matthew Currie]

By the way, I should add that it is actually illegal to ride facing traffic in Vermont, and I imagine it is in most other states as well.

[DrMoab]

IMO Bikes shouldn't be allowed on any road that doesn't have a lane built for them. Sorry but in my line of work I see it too many times. A bike doing 20 MPH(maybe) and I am doing 60 in a 120K Lb truck and they are in the travel lane. Sorry it make be a little tough but these guys should become grease spots in the road. Maybe if a few more of them got splattered they would learn what a stupid stupid stunt they are pulling.

I have no respect for 90% of the cyclists out there.

[riverfever]

I wear an Ipod when I ride but I've cut the left speaker wire off. I listen to the music when I'm climbing up here for 60 minutes at a time. If someones gonna hit me when they're doing 55mph, it really doesn't matter if I'm listening to music or have my eyes closed. Game over. Now when I'm in the city or heavy traffic areas I just take the ear bud out and the speaker hangs from my helmet strap.

I will say that I know tons of racers that think they're gonna go pro. In the highlight of my racing years, I had sponsorship deals with Schwinn and Cannondale and did a lot of traveling to big regional/national events. It's incredibly hard to make that jump. Luckily, I realized it and got my a$$ back to school. For some reason, I always knew more road racers that were in positions where they didn't have to work and could depend on mommy and daddy for support. These were the guys that were kind of in their own little worlds. They definitley had a holier than anyone attitude.

[riverfever]

IMO Bikes shouldn't be allowed on any road that doesn't have a lane built for them. Sorry but in my line of work I see it too many times. A bike doing 20 MPH(maybe) and I am doing 60 in a 120K Lb truck and they are in the travel lane. Sorry it make be a little tough but these guys should become grease spots in the road. Maybe if a few more of them got splattered they would learn what a stupid stupid stunt they are pulling.

I have no respect for 90% of the cyclists out there.


Damn Doc...glad you left room for 10% of us. :viking:

[DrMoab]

Damn Doc...glad you left room for 10% of us. :viking:
Utah just passed a law where you can get a ticket in a car if you don't make at least three feet of passing room for bikes. All I can hope for is a few head on collisions in cars trying to make room on Mt roads so they can get half a brain and repeal the law.

I guess I should say I feel this way only on the two lane Mt roads where there isn't a shoulder and these guys are out in the traffic lane with cars doing 3 times their speed.

Its just stupid.

[riverfever]

When you say "out in the traffic lane" what does that mean? Like....riding on the white line or actually out in the lane? If it's out in the lane...no bueno. The only time I drift out (and I'm talking 6-8 inches) is if there is debris on the shoulder that will pinch a flat. Or road kill. If I have to do that I always make sure I don't inconvenience anyone and I'm right back over in 2 seconds. You'd love me Doc. Really. :loveu:

[SCW]

Utah just passed a law where you can get a ticket in a car if you don't make at least three feet of passing room for bikes. All I can hope for is a few head on collisions in cars trying to make room on Mt roads so they can get half a brain and repeal the law.

I guess I should say I feel this way only on the two lane Mt roads where there isn't a shoulder and these guys are out in the traffic lane with cars doing 3 times their speed.

Its just stupid.

I'm pretty split over this issue. One the one side I have done a lot biking, 90% of it on the roads. When I have shoulder room I use it, otherwise I'm in a lane. There is simply no excuse for a biker doing 18-22mph to be anywhere but on the road, it's a hazard to everyone for that kind of speed on the sidewalks or bike paths.

On the other hand, I'd love to ride my bike to work, but it would require me to ride from Salt Lake county to Davis county on a VERY busy, two-lane road with heavy traffic and more than it's share of large trucks. I see other bikers out there, but I think they are freaking nuts. They are a hazard to everyone on that road, and I won't be a part of it. Roaring down the canyons is another problem, bikers are a huge problem when they think they get the entire canyon road. Bikes are a great solution to overcrowded freeways, fat Americans, and a lot of other things, but they shouldn't be everywhere. And bike paths are intended for for the family guy with a 4-year old, not a 15-20mph commuter.

[DrMoab]

When you say "out in the traffic lane" what does that mean? Like....riding on the white line or actually out in the lane? If it's out in the lane...no bueno. The only time I drift out (and I'm talking 6-8 inches) is if there is debris on the shoulder that will pinch a flat. Or road kill. If I have to do that I always make sure I don't inconvenience anyone and I'm right back over in 2 seconds. You'd love me Doc. Really. :loveu:
Anywhere in the traffic lane. When I am in my truck and going around a corner my steer tires are on the center line and sometimes my back trailer tires are over the white line. If I come up on a biker around a corner and a car is coming the other way...there is a good possibility that someone is going to lose their life. I would hate to be responsible for anyones life but if I had the choice of hitting a car head on or hitting a bike on the shoulder...the bikes going to get it every time.

[DrMoab]

Bikes are a great solution to overcrowded freeways, fat Americans, and a lot of other things, but they shouldn't be everywhere. And bike paths are intended for for the family guy with a 4-year old, not a 15-20mph commuter.
I actually agree with you...however if we are going to implement this as a country then we need to spend some serious money to give them their own lanes.(which I would support)

[riverfever]

When the government brings up the issue of a tax increase to develop bike lanes how many guys like you are going to agree?

[5-90]

I actually agree with you...however if we are going to implement this as a country then we need to spend some serious money to give them their own lanes.(which I would support)

No argument here, either. I don't care if it's a guy out with his kids, or some "sport" jackass - they need to be separated from motor traffic. I'd have no trouble paying for a bike lane (although I think the money's already there, just being misspent...) in major areas.

Take Highway 35 out here - granted, it's a 35mph roadway as well (it runs through unincorporated area, which makes it a "highway" and not a "road" or a "street,") but week-end traffic is a killer. Probably 10 bikes for every one car, and they're like, "Yes, I do own the WHOLE DAMN ROAD."

Makes me want to reach for a clue-by-four and teach them about life.

Since there are no bike lanes, one lane each way, only three short (ca. 1/4-mile) passing lanes each way (in, probably, a four- to five-mile stretch) and no passing zones (too windy,) if a bike is on the road, he's in the traffic lane. Since it's all uphill, if the bike is doing 5mph, so is everyone else. They certainly can't be arsed to move over - no matter how many people actually do pile up behind them.

Bugger-all. I'm sorry, but non-motorised traffic does NOT belong on highways and throughfares, and I don't care who hears me say it. Traffic is bad enough around here...

5-90

[DrMoab]

When the government brings up the issue of a tax increase to develop bike lanes how many guys like you are going to agree?
:D such is the world we live in huh?

[WB9YZU]

When the government brings up the issue of a tax increase to develop bike lanes how many guys like you are going to agree?

What you mean "Tax increase"?

Oh, you haven't bought a house yet I see ;)
Well, you will be pleased to note that unless it manages to come out of somebody elses pocket ( like the Developer or a Federal/State grant ) the adjacent property owners usually get bit for the cost of installing these niceties.

Here are the new road requirements: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/bikeped/Design.htm

[JohnJohn]

2cts>

I hate it when you finally get past them, then you're stopped at a stop light, they roll on past you on the left...and some even peddle right through the light. Passing them starts all over again.

Next light I get as close to the curb as I can. :D

[riverfever]

I'm somehwat speechless but not really I guess. I've had this discussion with people for 15 years. Sometimes it's taken place on the side of the road after someone in a hefty truck wants to see how close they can pass me and scare me. Or idiots that blow the horn and sit on my ass when you can see down the road for 1/4 mile and I'm solo.

If it wasn't bikes....it would be something else. I've found that some folks just aren't happy.

I know how it can be in big cities. I lived in St. Louis during my racing years. I road 50 miles, round trip, to work each day despite the weather and then raced on weekends. If it was a local race, I rode there. I am against big groups fawking up the flow of traffic. However, I fail to see how a vehicle (barring a dump truck or something of the like) can't negotiate around 1 rider that is taking less than 6" of your precious roadway. I pass responsible riders all the time. It's just not that hard. More problematic IMO is the tard that's talking on his phone or focussing more on lighting his cigarette instead of paying attention to the road. If you think of it that way...how many behaviors do we all do in our vehicles each day that could possibly end the life of another?

[JohnJohn]

When the government brings up the issue of a tax increase to develop bike lanes how many guys like you are going to agree?

Depends on who would pay the tax.

TAX: License fee and registrations costs for plating the bike. Cool. If you’re over 16 and riding a bike it better be plated. Maybe even toss a new test in at the DVM and charge $5 to get a CLASS CYC tag on your license. I'd be up for that, considering I don't road bike at all and wouldn't have to pay it.

[riverfever]

What you mean "Tax increase"?

Oh, you haven't bought a house yet I see ;)
Well, you will be pleased to note that unless it manages to come out of somebody elses pocket ( like the Developer or a Federal/State grant ) the adjacent property owners usually get bit for the cost of installing these niceties.

Here are the new road requirements: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/bikeped/Design.htm


Actually I've owned a few thanks. I'm just asking a question Zuki. That is one solution to the problem that you brought up. Would you support it?

[riverfever]

2cts>

I hate it when you finally get past them, then you're stopped at a stop light, they roll on past you on the left...and some even peddle right through the light. Passing them starts all over again.

Next light I get as close to the curb as I can. :D


In those situations, I wait until traffic is lined up at the light and then I move over a bit and secure the lane. I don't re-pass the cars. When the light turns green, I wait until the car in front is moving and then I'm back where I belong. It's just not that hard. I know I'm the minority though.

[JohnJohn]

I'm somehwat speechless but not really I guess. I've had this discussion with people for 15 years. Sometimes it's taken place on the side of the road after someone in a hefty truck wants to see how close they can pass me and scare me. Or idiots that blow the horn and sit on my ass when you can see down the road for 1/4 mile and I'm solo.

If it wasn't bikes....it would be something else. I've found that some folks just aren't happy.

I know how it can be in big cities. I lived in St. Louis during my racing years. I road 50 miles, round trip, to work each day despite the weather and then raced on weekends. If it was a local race, I rode there. I am against big groups fawking up the flow of traffic. However, I fail to see how a vehicle (barring a dump truck or something of the like) can't negotiate around 1 rider that is taking less than 6" of your precious roadway. I pass responsible riders all the time. It's just not that hard. More problematic IMO is the tard that's talking on his phone or focussing more on lighting his cigarette instead of paying attention to the road. If you think of it that way...how many behaviors do we all do in our vehicles each day that could possibly end the life of another?

My last post was not intended to scare anyone. I just meant that when I stop at the light I get as close to the crub as I can to keep them from passing me. IMHO if I pass a biker on the road 50 yards back then he should have to stop behind my bumper, and wait his turn for the light.

While in motion I always yield and give them more than enough room. I don't even mind the side by side riding all that much.

[JohnJohn]

In those situations, I wait until traffic is lined up at the light and then I move over a bit and secure the lane. I don't re-pass the cars. When the light turns green, I wait until the car in front is moving and then I'm back where I belong. It's just not that hard. I know I'm the minority though.

cool, posting around each other here.

[riverfever]

My last post was not intended to scare anyone. I just meant that when I stop at the light I get as close to the crub as I can to keep them from passing me. IMHO if I pass a biker on the road 50 yards back then he should have to stop behind my bumper, and wait his turn for the light.

While in motion I always yield and give them more than enough room. I don't even mind the side by side riding all that much.

I TOTALLY agree. I hate it when I have to re-pass b/c they're a moron. Surprised to hear you say you don't mind the 2 abreast riding though. I don't even like that.

[JohnJohn]

I TOTALLY agree. I hate it when I have to re-pass b/c they're a moron. Surprised to hear you say you don't mind the 2 abreast riding though. I don't even like that.

If I believe they should license and pay for the road they use, as I said in the other post, then I would be hypocrite if I told them how much of the road they could use. :)

I view side by side as if I am passing someone towing a trailer on a steep hill, it's not like they out in the left part of the lane. They are usually close to the right. I'm more pissed at the bastard behind me that is riding my bumper the whole time I'm trying to pass.

[Matthew Currie]

2cts>

I hate it when you finally get past them, then you're stopped at a stop light, they roll on past you on the left...and some even peddle right through the light. Passing them starts all over again.

Next light I get as close to the curb as I can. :D

And now my two cents, and please forgive me if I'm cranky because I drove all day to someplace I don't want to be and it's hot.

If the bike caught up with you at a stop light, then this means, does it not, that you could just as easily have followed the bike all the way to the stop light, and LOST NOT ONE SECOND OF YOUR PRECIOUS TIME!

I just toned down part of my response, when rereading your post, I now realize that you did not mean you intended to ride the cyclist off the road, but to block his misbehavior, and on that I agree. He should stop at the stop light behind you and wait his turn.

Nearly all the roads I ride on have no shoulders. I ride a bike on them, and also drive my car on them and have to slow down for bicycles. It's possible to share the road and still get where you're going.

[JohnJohn]

And now my two cents, and please forgive me if I'm cranky because I drove all day to someplace I don't want to be and it's hot.

If the bike caught up with you at a stop light, then this means, does it not, that you could just as easily have followed the bike all the way to the stop light, and LOST NOT ONE SECOND OF YOUR PRECIOUS TIME!

I just toned down part of my response, when rereading your post, I now realize that you did not mean you intended to ride the cyclist off the road, but to block his misbehavior, and on that I agree. He should stop at the stop light behind you and wait his turn.

Nearly all the roads I ride on have no shoulders. I ride a bike on them, and also drive my car on them and have to slow down for bicycles. It's possible to share the road and still get where you're going.


umm, I was going to pass him either way...50 yards back or 50 yards ahead. You see my car is going to go faster than his bike...so..the passing is going to occur, it's the mutiple times that pisses me off.

[WB9YZU]

Actually I've owned a few thanks. I'm just asking a question Zuki. That is one solution to the problem that you brought up. Would you support it?

Adding more bike lanes to this area is not a solution to our Sport cyclist problem, and the reason I say that (reference post #1 for this one) is that Commuter cyclists by and large do not have a problem obeying the rules. They stop at stop signs, wait at lights, signal their intent, ride on the correct side and distance from the curb (or side of road) and generally do exactly what the book says they are to do. I can even predict their path for the next 1000, 2000, 3000ft. Not so with a Sport cyclist. They are in their own world and no one else exists except them.

Go back and read all my posts again, and you will see where the money for the trails comes from, what I propose, and where the money for "bikelanes" presently comes from. I have even included a link to the new Federal standards. When a road is improved (not repaired, but improved) those take effect. It's all there in black and white.

My area is all bike laned, and there is a bike trail. That has not prevented conflict, but because of the previously mentioned increase of traffic on both sides, and malfeasance by azzhat Sport cyclists (also previously mentioned) the conflict rate has increased a thousand fold. One fine rush hour, some cyclist is going to find themself under a Semi, or a car, or some other sticky end because they would not obey the rules. No amount of taxation will fix azzhat behaviour.

[riverfever]

Adding more bike lanes to this area is not a solution to our Sport cyclist problem, and the reason I say that (reference post #1 for this one) is that Commuter cyclists by and large do not have a problem obeying the rules. They stop at stop signs, wait at lights, signal their intent, ride on the correct side and distance from the curb (or side of road) and generally do exactly what the book says they are to do. I can even predict their path for the next 1000, 2000, 3000ft. Not so with a Sport cyclist. They are in their own world and no one else exists except them.

Go back and read all my posts again, and you will see where the money for the trails comes from, what I propose, and where the money for "bikelanes" presently comes from. I have even included a link to the new Federal standards. When a road is improved (not repaired, but improved) those take effect. It's all there in black and white.

My area is all bike laned, and there is a bike trail. That has not prevented conflict, but because of the previously mentioned increase of traffic on both sides, and malfeasance by azzhat Sport cyclists (also previously mentioned) the conflict rate has increased a thousand fold. One fine rush hour, some cyclist is going to find themself under a Semi, or a car, or some other sticky end because they would not obey the rules. No amount of taxation will fix azzhat behaviour.

Way to go Zuki...you've just lumped together every "sport" cyclist (what the fawk does that term mean anyway? Someone who's NOT riding to work?). I, for one, think that adding bike lanes to existing roads is a rather dumb idea (not to mention totally not practical). What really needs to happen is some sort of education of all the people involved. When I managed bike shops that was one area I was active in. I held clinics for new cyclists. Unfortunately, this only educates one side of the equation. If you remember from linear equations back in Algebra, you'll recall that, ideally, what ever is done to one side of the equal sign must be done to the other. Somehow I don't think that Doc and other likeminded individuals would be willing to meet about such a topic.

Realistically, what we have here is a stalemate. There will always be people that are die hard religeous freaks that give others shit for not believing in their God, people that are anti-abortion/pro-choice or, in this case people that think that cyclists should become, "dark spots on the road". I guess we all just agree to disagree and I keep watching my back while I'm out exercising so I don't become some fawkwads hood ornament and they don't have to slow down or inconvenience themselves for me while we both enjoy roads that WE'VE helped pay for.

[riverfever]

I gotta say, I think this is the first time I've ever been a bit disappointed in some of the members/users of NAXJA. I haven't persoanlly met most of the members but the ones I have met really impressed...big time. I've even heard some great things through the grapevine about others that I haven't yet met. But let's pretend that I was a greenie and hated 4 wheelers. How fawked up and inhumane would it be for me to actually go so far as to say that I wished death upon those that did things that I didn't agree with?

I consider myself Buddhist so I hope all people of other denominations die.
I'm a fan of redheads so I hope women with all other colored hair die.

I'm gonna go ride now but don't worry everyone...I'll be on the rollers in MY garage.
:kissyou:

[cracker]

There are good points made here and a bunch of bull $hit. Any fawktard mentioning riding on a sidewalk or going against traffic should be shot on site. There are more fatalities caused from riding on the sidewalk and going 'against the grain' than anything else. For the love of God, please do not do this.

Remember, there is a LOT both sides can do (cyclist and drivers alike). I agree there are a bunch of fawktards out there on bikes but I can guarantee there is more of them driving in vehicles at any given time.

Cyclist come in many forms. It can be your local vagrant riding to his next dumpster to a doctor trying to get physical fitness to the guy who just lost his license for a DUI and is trying to get to work. In a nut shell, they are out there, live with it.

Expect more of them with these rising gas prices as well ;)

[kubtastic]

Oops - bikes are 'motorized' contrary to what I might have indicated earlier. They're not self-propelled or whatever that legal term is to categorize them.
This is just the internet, but this information should surprise those venting here: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/BicycleMyths.htm
Expect more of them with these rising gas prices as well ;)
no kidding

Ron, you might be upset with cyclists not obeying laws, but the "plight" you dismissed is the number of motorists who don't as well - killing responsible cyclists.

[5-90]

Don't ask me - it was what we were taught by LPD in school. Probably because we had a fair amount of room on IN roads, so it wasn't a big problem then. And, the reasons given make sense - simply because then you CAN see what's on the road with you.

I really don't mind "sharing the road" - but sharing the road one way just don't do it for me. If I've got to give up a few things, so do you - that's the nature of "compromise."

Riding on the sidewalk? We were taught to do that as well (again, by LPD) when there was one avaialble. I don't see any reason for that practise to be discontinued, either - especially if you're not going that damn fast. Then again, I think sidewalks back home were about half again as wide as they are out here - and you still had to stay "on the right side of the road" while you were on the sidewalks. That kept cycle traffic moving in more or less the same direction, and made it predictable.

Whatever your reason for being out on a bicycle, I'm willing to share the road with you. Provided, you share the road with ME in return. Creating a traffic impediment isn't cool. Riding two or three abreast on a winding mountain road definitely isn't cool (do you have any idea how many times I've damn near run a bunch of cyclists over because they do that? What are they thinking? Are they thinking?) Like most things, it cuts both ways...

5-90

[WB9YZU]

Oops - bikes are 'motorized' contrary to what I might have indicated earlier. They're not self-propelled or whatever that legal term is to categorize them.
This is just the internet, but this information should surprise those venting here: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/BicycleMyths.htm

no kidding

Ron, you might be upset with cyclists not obeying laws, but the "plight" you dismissed is the number of motorists who don't as well - killing responsible cyclists.

Huh? Somehow I'm the bad guy now? WTF!!

"River" goes along for 2.5 pages then turns nasty for no appearant reason, now you accuse me of dissmissing cycle accidents? I haven't dissmissed dick, don't go putting words or intent where there was none.

Stick to the thread, go back and read my posts if you have to, but don't make up stuff.

[kubtastic]

(do you have any idea how many times I've damn near run a bunch of cyclists over because they do that? What are they thinking? Are they thinking?) Like most things, it cuts both ways...

5-90
You've got to be prepared for anything on the road ahead. Where's the british anti-speeding clip when you need it?

[riverfever]

Oops - bikes are 'motorized' contrary to what I might have indicated earlier. They're not self-propelled or whatever that legal term is to categorize them.
This is just the internet, but this information should surprise those venting here: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/BicycleMyths.htm

no kidding

Ron, you might be upset with cyclists not obeying laws, but the "plight" you dismissed is the number of motorists who don't as well - killing responsible cyclists.

That link was entertaining. The last shop I worked at was filled with gearheads. There we were, at work, in the back wrenching on bikes and about 5 mechanics talking about cars ALL THE TIME. Any kind. We had Car and Driver, and European Car and Performance VW in the "office". I got chewed out by the owner once b/c I had the head off a 2 liter Dub motor in the parts washer before I did a port job on it in the shop. Most shops talk about bikes 24-7. I hated that.

[riverfever]

River's not nasty at all "Zuki". Hell...I agreed with probably a majority of what was posted. Why are you bent?

[5-90]

You've got to be prepared for anything on the road ahead. Where's the british anti-speeding clip when you need it?

Ah, but I'm not speeding when it happens. Speed limit tends to be about 35 on most roads like that, and I DO slow down for turns.

However, I have yet to see a cyclist who can do more than even 15 on the upslope, and that's still something I'll have to hit my brakes for. If there's anyone behind me, and I get rearended, I'll be holding the cyclist in front of me directly responsible (creating a traffic impediment,) and the motorist behind me secondarily responsible (failing to maintain control of his vehicle.)

5-90

[kubtastic]

If people on bikes keep breaking the law, one of them is gonna die! something has to be done to educate riders!we hear it.
:gonnablow get out of my way!but it led to this first.

[riverfever]

Ah, but I'm not speeding when it happens. Speed limit tends to be about 35 on most roads like that, and I DO slow down for turns.

However, I have yet to see a cyclist who can do more than even 15 on the upslope, and that's still something I'll have to hit my brakes for. If there's anyone behind me, and I get rearended, I'll be holding the cyclist in front of me directly responsible (creating a traffic impediment,) and the motorist behind me secondarily responsible (failing to maintain control of his vehicle.)

5-90

But that's the thing. Obviously, as a teacher, I'm pro-education with a lot of things.You, and probably Zuki and Doc and tons of other motorists are not dealing with educated, experienced cyclists. We used to joke that if you're riding uphill slower than 13mph, you might as well get off and walk.

[riverfever]

People die and get injured on bikes all the time. What's your point? A friend back home recently was struck from behind by a guy who so completely shithoused that he didn't even know he hit anything...much less a human. Another was hit just days ago in Boulder by a driver that blew a stop sign. He's in the ICU right now down in Colorado Springs. Shat happens dude.

These were both highly experienced riders that I know for a fact rode in an appropriate fashion and both were solo when hit.

[5-90]

I'd prefer education over legislation on a lot of things (think: fireworks, for instance...) but we don't seem to be doing anything to instruct these fools.

I consider myself highly trained, and I'm always looking to improve my skills and abilities. Even if it's OJT rather than classroom, I'm just about always training to improve myself, or I'm training someone else. Either way, I'm also a huge propoent of education.

So, how do you propose we go about training these mainiacs so they can keep us out of trouble, or keep themselves from getting hurt? While we're about it, we should work on driver training as well...

5-90

[kubtastic]

5-90, if you almost run them over, then you almost were going too fast to stop. To call a cyclist a "traffic impediment" ignores their right to the road. If I'm going the speed limit down highway whatever into half-moon bay, there are some tight turns - but beach traffic might be backed up and clogged. I have to be prepared for that - traffic in front of me isn't at fault. Maniac or motorist. What's the issue again? Oh, right to the road.

edit: Skyline! you're pissed at people biking skyline!

[riverfever]

I have a pretty good indication of who you are, 5-90, based upon our e interactions and I don't feel like you're full of it. I agree that if education was the answer, it would certainly have to address both users of roads. However, I don't know what the answer is man. I think a great way to address the problem with drivers would be in Drivers Education classes in schools. You'd be targeting young, probably more impressionable adolescents vs. older drivers set in their ways. However, b/c No Child Left Behind wants teachers and schools to be accountable for Core area performance, other things considered "extraneous" are cut. My school doesn't even have Health for Christ sake.

There is a lot that go's on at local bike shops. It's quite common for shops to put on clinics dealing with responsible riding. I haven't worked at a shop yet that didn't offer free classes. Because it's so friggin hard for hungry, young riders to get corporate sponsorship, it's more common now for riders themselves to do things. Schwinn used to send me t shirts, stickers, water bottles and I'd go to local grade schools and do bicycle safety checks and instruct the kids on appropriate riding. Probably one of the reasons I never got to the level I wanted to be at...I liked working in the schools so much.

[5-90]

5-90, if you almost run them over, then you almost were going too fast to stop. To call a cyclist a "traffic impediment" ignores their right to the road. If I'm going the speed limit down highway whatever into half-moon bay, there are some tight turns - but beach traffic might be backed up and clogged. I have to be prepared for that - traffic in front of me isn't at fault. Maniac or motorist. What's the issue again? Oh, right to the road.

edit: Skyline! you're pissed at people biking skyline!

If I'm going around a blind turn, I slow down as much as reasonable 5MPH just ain't reasonable, y'ask me.

I had to drive Skyline for week-ends for four and a half years, and I got REALLY tired of these people. If they were riding single-file down the right-hand line, it wouldn't have been a problem. However, they're 2-3 abreast across the WHOLE DAMN LANE, and that's a problem. They should fully realise that they're much slower than the rest of the traffic that is on the road, and act accordingly (just as the rest of the traffic should act accordingly - I've seen many more close calls than I've been involved in, and not all of them were "car vs. bicycle." Ever see a motorcyclist almost wipe out a bike, going 60 around a turn? Don't lecture me about speed...)

And, there isn't a "right to the road" - just like there isn't a "right to drive" (it's a privilege - that's why licenses are issued and training is involved,) nor is there a right to pretty much anything else. Even the "basic inalienable rights" - Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - aren't really rights.

Right to life? I've been dead twice - who do I seek out for a redress for getting killed?

Right to liberty? That can be taken away officially with due process, or taken away illegally by kidnappers. So much for that...

Right to pursue happiness? I am free to do that as long as my brain works - but some of the means by which I can pursue happiness are taken away from me by laws. I enjoy working with explosives - but that pleasure is denied me, because I'm not enlisted anymore. Ditto machine guns (they ARE fun, I don't care what you say.) Fireworks? I also enjoy pyrotechnics, but California won't allow me anything but poppers and snappers - so much for that. Who do I go after for a redress for that?

Simply put, we are all - each of us - entitled to pretty much nothing. "The world does not owe you a living. The world does not owe you anything - it was here first." (Mark Twain, and I can almost guarantee I'm misquoting. But the sentiment is there.)

Oh - you're probably thinking beach traffic on Hwy 92. I drive 92 and 35 both rather slowly (and well below the speed limit, despite what I really CAN do on those roads!) and you just can't get slow enough for these people. I think they'd prefer it if I kept to 2mph behind them ALL THE WAY UP THE DAMN HILL - but I could probably get out and walk faster than that. Unfortunately, I'm usually carrying more than I would care to walk with...

Go figure. Got any ideas?

5-90

[Matthew Currie]

To 5-90: You're right, there is no right to the road, in the usual sense of rights, but because the roads do belong to the state, and the state regulates their use, there is what we might call instead of a right, a legal entitlement of use, and according to statue, at least where I live, bicycles share that entitlement with all other vehicles, and have, in fact, a certain priority of use, a right of way within a limited area which is pretty specifically spelled out. Of course to cite that very specific legal entitlement requires that as a cyclist I also acknowledge the legal obligations and limitations that are built in. It's all in the code. If you drive on the road you should know the code!

I must say after reading this thread that I'm happy to live in rural New England, and Vermont in particular, where the majority of both riders and drivers seem to have these ideas pretty well understood. Some of the roads where I live are pretty hairy, and I try to avoid them, but for the most part people behave pretty well.

[5-90]

Exactly - but this is one of those legal "hair-splitting" matters that I usually hand to my wife, since she understands this better than I do (she's a paralegal, I'm a mechanic and an engineer.)

The point I'm largely trying to make is simple, however - if "share the road" is to work, I shouldn't have to do "all the sharing." It cuts both ways - if I have to share the road with them, they have to share the road with me.

I'm just tired of it being a one-way street. I do all the giving, they do all the taking, and they wonder why I get upset. "Give and take" requires BOTH sides be involved, and I'm just not seeing it around here...

Bravo Zulu to anyone who can effectively "share the road" on a bicycle - can you come out here and teach courses?

5-90

[kubtastic]

Exactly - but this is one of those legal "hair-splitting" matters that I usually hand to my wife, since she understands this better than I do (she's a paralegal, I'm a mechanic and an engineer.)

The point I'm largely trying to make is simple, however - if "share the road" is to work, I shouldn't have to do "all the sharing." It cuts both ways - if I have to share the road with them, they have to share the road with me.

I'm just tired of it being a one-way street. I do all the giving, they do all the taking, and they wonder why I get upset. "Give and take" requires BOTH sides be involved, and I'm just not seeing it around here...

Bravo Zulu to anyone who can effectively "share the road" on a bicycle - can you come out here and teach courses?

5-90
"take the lane" is designed to increase cyclist safety. Your average cyclist is probably doing this to increase the distance around the apex of a turn at which he comes into view and because the shoulder is next to non-existent. This is what is taught and spread.
http://www.scorcher.org/screed/samp/take-the-lane-thumb.png
Solutions include designating road-ways as bicycle only on certain days on weekends, and in some instances, cutting a through road into two pieces.

[Lawn Cher']

Back in St. Louis, I had all kinds of things thrown at me from some fatsos half eaten cheesburger to a full Big Gulp that I thought broke several ribs.

If you weren't such a skinny ass you'd have deflected the big gulp, and avoided injury thusly.

[Rev Den]

I am tired of Wisconsin drivers....WTF? Speed up BEFORE you try to merge onto the interstate.

Slower traffic keep left!
Pick a speed and stick to it!

And when in Illinois....PAY THE FRICKING TOLLS!

Rev

[Atl XJ]

The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that bicycles don't have to pay any kind of tax. For autos, there is a registration tax, drivers license tax, and damn near a 50 cent tax on gasoline (per gallon).

Now bikes won't have to pay a gas tax (obviously), but they should be required to pay a registration fee just like everybody else. My motto is, fair taxes for all, or no taxes at all.
just what we need, more pointless taxes. :rolleyes:

[5-90]

"take the lane" is designed to increase cyclist safety. Your average cyclist is probably doing this to increase the distance around the apex of a turn at which he comes into view and because the shoulder is next to non-existent. This is what is taught and spread.
http://www.scorcher.org/screed/samp/take-the-lane-thumb.png
Solutions include designating road-ways as bicycle only on certain days on weekends, and in some instances, cutting a through road into two pieces.

Finally! Someone offers an alternate solution, which is what I've been looking for!

I can understand "taking the lane" to increase visibility, but should you not then get OUT of the lane once you're clear? These people don't.

I can easily understand doing something to increase your personal safety (I do it all the time,) but once you don't need to do so, you're probably DECREASING your personal safety if you continue to do it, are you not?

One more once - I'll share the road, but it cuts BOTH ways. One side should not have to do ALL the "sharing"...

5-90

[Matthew Currie]

Finally! Someone offers an alternate solution, which is what I've been looking for!

I can understand "taking the lane" to increase visibility, but should you not then get OUT of the lane once you're clear? These people don't.

I can easily understand doing something to increase your personal safety (I do it all the time,) but once you don't need to do so, you're probably DECREASING your personal safety if you continue to do it, are you not?

One more once - I'll share the road, but it cuts BOTH ways. One side should not have to do ALL the "sharing"...

5-90

While I tend to agree, and I always try to give back as much of the lane as I safely can, on narrow roads one must sometimes simply take the lane, not only for blind turns, but for other reasons that might tick off some motorists, but are valid: if I skooch over to the far right, and the motorist thinks there's just enough road left to get by me without technically "passing," then the situation can become dangerous. I will then take enough of the lane to force the motorist to look toward oncoming traffic, and execute a safe pass over the center line, as he would to pass a slow car. This is sometimes the only safe way to ensure that I'm not crowded off into the ditch. I would add, however, that this situation would be easily avoided if the ROADS DID NOT ABSOLUTELY SUCK! I will also add that a good number of cyclists who should know better tend to take more lane than I think they should.

Not addressed to you, but just economizing on posts, those who harp on about bicyclists not paying taxes should really think a little more carefully. Not only do we all pay taxes, unless we're among the very small minority of people who travel only by bicycle, but if you are going to start thinking in terms of allotment of road rights as a function of tax paid, do you then decide that a Ford Excursion should be able to run a Honda Insight off the road too? Those with a streak of libertarian feeling, or perhaps even "smaller government" conservatism in good faith rather than mere lip service, should perhaps be happy that the freedom to ride a bicycle is one little area where the statists haven't managed to stake a claim with bureaucracy, taxes, permits, fees and licenses.

[5-90]

While I tend to agree, and I always try to give back as much of the lane as I safely can, on narrow roads one must sometimes simply take the lane, not only for blind turns, but for other reasons that might tick off some motorists, but are valid: if I skooch over to the far right, and the motorist thinks there's just enough road left to get by me without technically "passing," then the situation can become dangerous. I will then take enough of the lane to force the motorist to look toward oncoming traffic, and execute a safe pass over the center line, as he would to pass a slow car. This is sometimes the only safe way to ensure that I'm not crowded off into the ditch. I would add, however, that this situation would be easily avoided if the ROADS DID NOT ABSOLUTELY SUCK! I will also add that a good number of cyclists who should know better tend to take more lane than I think they should.

Not addressed to you, but just economizing on posts, those who harp on about bicyclists not paying taxes should really think a little more carefully. Not only do we all pay taxes, unless we're among the very small minority of people who travel only by bicycle, but if you are going to start thinking in terms of allotment of road rights as a function of tax paid, do you then decide that a Ford Excursion should be able to run a Honda Insight off the road too? Those with a streak of libertarian feeling, or perhaps even "smaller government" conservatism in good faith rather than mere lip service, should perhaps be happy that the freedom to ride a bicycle is one little area where the statists haven't managed to stake a claim with bureaucracy, taxes, permits, fees and licenses.


Yep - I, for one, would be happy to see taxes lowered - but we'd have to stop paying exhorbitant salaries to our elected "officials," and start dismantling their petty little fiefdoms - which just aint' gonna happen without another revolution, I think...

Don't get me started on "vehicle registration" - it's hot, and I'm in rare form to-day (and I view DMV as being about as useful as the vermiform appendix...)

5-90

[riverfever]

If you weren't such a skinny ass you'd have deflected the big gulp, and avoided injury thusly.

Yeah I kinda wondered when you were going to rear your......head. :viking:

I have since altered my riding position. I now ride a very circus-bike-like contraption with elevated handlebars (not unlike you see in the inner city). Yes I lose some aerodynamics but when I combine that position with a heavy duty garbage can lid which I bungee around my chest...then end result is a combo that is nothing shy of impervious to an Big Gulp or Super Big Gulp beverage. It's a wee bit hot on muggy days. Perhaps you could head out to the lab and design a more appropriate shielding device for me?

[riverfever]

I will add that I was almost taken out today by what appeared to be a very elderly and shaking man with Kansas plates as I headed down the pass into the Springs. This particular stretch of road has a shoulder that's about 3 feet wide before the white line. I was hugging the gaurd rail and riding about 40mph. When I saw his front right tire. It was inches to the right of the line. Closest call I've had since I got back on the bike. Clearly I was in the wrong. God damn bikers.

[Lawn Cher']

River, you need a lance and some armor to go with your shield.
http://www.cyclecide.com/press/gorgar.jpg

Or perhaps a scarier bike.
http://www.cyclecide.com/press/chuba.jpg

[riverfever]

Well....someones not working.

Not sure where you come up with this crap but it sure makes me giggle.

[xjcrawlr]

WOW.....


Makes me feel real great that there are people out there that were happy to hear of a 16yr old kid (me) having his lower jaw shattered on each side and up-teen stitches to sew up his face, just for riding his bike to school.

And BTW, I was 2 feet over from the white line, on the shoulder. The camaro actually swerved INTENTIONALLY to hit me.

[5-90]

WOW.....


Makes me feel real great that there are people out there that were happy to hear of a 16yr old kid (me) having his lower jaw shattered on each side and up-teen stitches to sew up his face, just for riding his bike to school.

And BTW, I was 2 feet over from the white line, on the shoulder. The camaro actually swerved INTENTIONALLY to hit me.

Did you sue, or have him arrested? There's no call for that sort of behaviour, either.

I'll say it again - "Share the road" cuts BOTH ways - and if you try to stay out of my way, I'll try to stay out of yours. I've not had a broken jaw, but I do know that facial fractures aren't any fun (my face still hurts - it's been eight months...) and if he swerved intentionally, that sound an awful lot like "vehicular assault with intent to kill" to me...

5-90

[xjcrawlr]

I never even saw it coming.

I was riding along, then BAM! My friend Brad was behind me a ways and later said that a yellow camaro had swerved to "buzz" me, but his side mirror struck my handle bars sending the bike out from under me, the first thing to hit the ground was my chin. Next thing I know, its 5 mins later and I cant talk.


Cops never did catch the Fawker.

[XgeekstarX]

go drive you jeep on their bike trails to teach them a lesson http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[riverfever]

go drive you jeep on their bike trails to teach them a lesson http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all fawkin morning. As has already been said...someone seeking a higher level of fitness can't get it at a local bike trail, that is truly designed for the family, without putting others (probably young kids just being exposed to bicycles) at great risk. Jesus...what are you guys gonna do if you ever have kids and they want to do something really strange like.....ride a bike. How would you feel about me whipping violently past your kid on said trail at 40mph just so I can practice my sprints?

I'm also equally thrilled that some people are part of the same "club" that I am and can, so easliy, place a lesser value on someones life simply b/c they wanna ride a bike. I hope these same folks have never served our country and been responsible for the protection and welfare of ALL Americans no matter if they're black, white, yellow, homosexual, or they ride bikes.

-river

Just got back from a ride and had a guy pull over 50 yards ahead of me and wait. He asked why I stopped at the stop sign. I said, "It's the law dude". He smiled, gave me a thumbs up and said..."I've never seen that." I said, "Sorry to hear that."

I know it's sometimes frustrating for drivers. I apologize for asshat cyclists. I do what little I can anymore to help rectify the situation. When I'm in my vehicle, I do what I can to rectify the problematic drivers.

[JohnJohn]

...someone seeking a higher level of fitness can't get it at a local bike trail -river

http://jitcrunch.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoxNTJfRi5qcGd 8bG9hZD1MMCxodHRwOi8vaW1hZ2VzLmNhZmVwcmVzcy5jb20va W1hZ2UvMTA0OTMyOTFfNDAweDQwMC5wbmd8fHNjYWxlPUwwLDE 2MywzNixUcmFuc3BhcmVudHxsb2FkPXRtLUwwLGJsYW5rOjE1M l9GX3RtYXNrLmpwZ3xjb21wb3NlPUwwLHRtLUwwLFRleHR1cmV NYXNrLC0xNTksLTEwNXxjb21wb3NlPWJsYW5rLEwwLEFscGhhQ mxlbmQsMTU5LDEwNXxjcD1yZXN1bHQsYmxhbmt8c2NhbGU9cmV zdWx0LDAsNDgwLFdoaXRlfGxvYWQ9c2FtcGxlLGh0dHA6Ly93d 3cuY2FmZXByZXNzLmNvbS9jb250ZW50L2dsb2JhbC9pbWcvc2F tcGxlX2NydW5jaF9vdmVybGF5LmdpZnxzY2FsZT1zYW1wbGUsM Cw0ODAsV2hpdGV8Y29tcG9zZT1yZXN1bHQsc2FtcGxlLEFkZCw wLDB8Y29tcHJlc3Npb249OTV8

I couldn't resist... :D

[Lawn Cher']

I want that shirt!

[riverfever]

Damn you John John...I think I just spit some coffee on the Gateway. Maybe that'll help it. :D

[riverfever]

I want that shirt!

I could totally see you wearing that shirt. :roflmao:

[Lawn Cher']

I could totally see you wearing that shirt. :roflmao:

It'll be my new jeeping couture.

[JohnJohn]

Not to totally take this thread offline...

I thought of them while watching "The Bigest Looser" series on TV. They had shirts that said "...because I want to fit in my wedding dress", "...because I want to see my kid get married." blah blah...so I made some up for wheeling. I thought that one was good to add on this topic. :)

Maybe this needs to be a bumper sticker too??? hmmm

[Lawn Cher']

Not to totally take this thread offline...

I thought of them while watching "The Bigest Looser" series on TV. They had shirts that said "...because I want to fit in my wedding dress", "...because I want to see my kid get married." blah blah...so I made some up for wheeling. I thought that one was good to add on this topic. :)

So where can I buy one?

[JohnJohn]

So where can I buy one?

You got PM

now let the arguing resume

[riverfever]

Not to totally take this thread offline...

I thought of them while watching "The Bigest Looser" series on TV. They had shirts that said "...because I want to fit in my wedding dress", "...because I want to see my kid get married." blah blah...so I made some up for wheeling. I thought that one was good to add on this topic. :)

Why anyone would go on a show and subject themselves to that degree of public humiliation is beyond me. I have not seen that show JJ but I'm talking about the stupid dating shows or bachelor shows. Pretty much any damn thing on MTV these days. I remember back when MTV used to actually PLAY videos. Now it's all crap. I'm gonna start a thread titled, "Tired of crap shows". Maybe, Tired of "Reality" shows, would be better.

[JohnJohn]

Why anyone would go on a show and subject themselves to that degree of public humiliation is beyond me. I have not seen that show JJ but I'm talking about the stupid dating shows or bachelor shows. Pretty much any damn thing on MTV these days. I remember back when MTV used to actually PLAY videos. Now it's all crap. I'm gonna start a thread titled, "Tired of crap shows". Maybe, Tired of "Reality" shows, would be better.

Bring back the A-Team, Night Rider and Family Ties(you know you all watched)...I'll save all that for your new thread!

[Lawn Cher']

Why anyone would go on a show and subject themselves to that degree of public humiliation is beyond me.

Yeah, why would anyone post a picture of their backside in tighty whities on the internet?

[riverfever]

Yeah, why would anyone post a picture of their backside in tighty whities on the internet?

It's all because of this stupid place Mark. If I hadn't seen so many threads dealing with rear end help, ID this rear, My rear end's leaking, creaking or whatever else....I wouldn't have felt compelled to do what I did. Oddly enough...that very picture seems to re-surface once in a blue moon (no pun intended). I still think I deserve some kind of something for my efforts.

John John....funny you should mention those shows. I was in the new garage just yesterday and the misses came home to find me working on my Jeep and watching tv. I had the Direct tv guy hook the garage tv up too. I found the A Team and Knight Rider (back to back mind you). Unfortunately I could not pull off the trifecta with Family Ties but that just doesn't really fit in BA's van and Kit. I gotta post up some pics of the new garage by the way. Anyway....back on topic.....I think I may have come up with a new drinking game while watching Knight Rider. I couldn't help but noticwe how many times Michael refers to Kit as either "Buddy" or "Pal".

[JohnJohn]

It's all because of this stupid place Mark. If I hadn't seen so many threads dealing with rear end help, ID this rear, My rear end's leaking, creaking or whatever else....I wouldn't have felt compelled to do what I did. Oddly enough...that very picture seems to re-surface once in a blue moon (no pun intended). I still think I deserve some kind of something for my efforts.

John John....funny you should mention those shows. I was in the new garage just yesterday and the misses came home to find me working on my Jeep and watching tv. I had the Direct tv guy hook the garage tv up too. I found the A Team and Knight Rider (back to back mind you). Unfortunately I could not pull off the trifecta with Family Ties but that just doesn't really fit in BA's van and Kit. I gotta post up some pics of the new garage by the way. Anyway....back on topic.....I think I may have come up with a new drinking game while watching Knight Rider. I couldn't help but noticwe how many times Michael refers to Kit as either "Buddy" or "Pal".

I got them on the iPod and let the kids watch them in Van, much than the Power Ranger crap they want to watch.