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1 Upper Arm
- Thread starter caglezxj
- Start date
jonlowe
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Farmington, UT
IF you run 3 link up front with a track bar you will be just fine. I helped a buddy of mine 3 link the front of his YJ, running a D60 front. If done correctly the setup is very stout. We have beat the crap out of this Jeep with no ill effect to the 3 link design. I would not worry about it.
WheelinJR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
My brother in law has been building the longarm kit, like the one thats on my Jeep for about 5 years or so.
Here's a quick list of people with his kit, using only one upper.
1. Myself
2. wannabe - been over 2.5 years. removed off of his Jeep that was t-boned and knocked on its side and installed on his new jeep
3. jeepboy381 - has had his kit for quite a long time (couple years maybe)
4. My brother in law's Comanche - used heavily on street, trail, and competition for 4 years or more
5. My brother in laws black cherokee - mostly daily driven, wheeled off and on for a year or two
None of these have shown or reported any problems at all running like that, and its a Y-Link on the left and lower only on the right. None of them are using D60's, and I'm not sure if thats the same kinda setup, but I hope the info helps a little
Here's a quick list of people with his kit, using only one upper.
1. Myself
2. wannabe - been over 2.5 years. removed off of his Jeep that was t-boned and knocked on its side and installed on his new jeep
3. jeepboy381 - has had his kit for quite a long time (couple years maybe)
4. My brother in law's Comanche - used heavily on street, trail, and competition for 4 years or more
5. My brother in laws black cherokee - mostly daily driven, wheeled off and on for a year or two
None of these have shown or reported any problems at all running like that, and its a Y-Link on the left and lower only on the right. None of them are using D60's, and I'm not sure if thats the same kinda setup, but I hope the info helps a little
WheelinJR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
I guess my examples don't really apply, they're all no passenger upper, I should've read more closely.
Have you thought about an upper wishbone and eliminating the track bar?
Have you thought about an upper wishbone and eliminating the track bar?
WheelinJR said:
So you are saying this. On the passenger side you run the lower long arm with the upper arm attached. This makes the y-link. And on the drivers side you just run the lower. I have a y-link on both sides, but removed my 44 and installed my 60. I guess you understand there is no room above the diff. So this has worked well for you and your friends?
WheelinJR said:
Why did you just go with the drivers side? It would be the same way for the passenger. There is no difference from side to side. I will be running a trac bar for this up coming ride..... Don't have time to fab up my 4 link. It took me a little longer on getting all of my dana 60 parts. So I am stuck on time.
WheelinJR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
caglezxj said:
no I was doing a piss poor job of reading the original thread and didn't see that you were asking if its ok to run without the upper driver side. I thought it just said one upper and didn't specify which. All the kits I listed above run the upper driver, and no upper passenger.
caglezxj said:
The kits are all on Dana 30's so clearance wasn't an issue. I think the driver side was picked mostly because we figured the cast mount on the pumpkin was stronger.
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
If your mount is stout enough, and you truss it, it will be ok. The problem is the upper arm acts as a torque arm because of it's relative position(further away from the center of rotational energy.) Running one arm on the drivers side is the norm because the tube to center section weld is taken out of the equation for everything except braking.
If you could form fit a truss on the passenger side that transversed the axle and welded it to the diff you would be fine, otherwise the weak point is the tube welded into the diff.
If you could form fit a truss on the passenger side that transversed the axle and welded it to the diff you would be fine, otherwise the weak point is the tube welded into the diff.
WheelinJR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
I'm pretty sure it was just for the cast mount. Jerry (my brother in law) is the smarter one when it comes to suspension design so he might have had other reasons.
nekocopter
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Astoria, OR
Jesus, if you'd only listen.
The reason being, is that the trackbar mount at the axle keeps it planted well enough to only run 1 link on that side.
Sorry i've got so angry over this thread, but i'm really just trying to help.
The reason being, is that the trackbar mount at the axle keeps it planted well enough to only run 1 link on that side.
Sorry i've got so angry over this thread, but i'm really just trying to help.
jonlowe
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Farmington, UT
We ran the upper link on by buddies Yj on the passengers side, there is a lot more room and then ran the track bar from the drivers side frame down to the axle on the passengers side. This Jeep has been on all over area BFE at Moab including through Upper Helldorado and up the waterfall unassisted without any issues whatsoever. He has even had the Jeep neer verticle and slammed it down on the drivers side tire and lost the bead and did absolutely no damage to the 3rd link or the track bar for that matter. It has held up to countless poundings and is fine!! Here is a link to the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6GFC6spZc0
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goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
the trac bar has nothing to do with it, Ideally the trac bar should have no effect on the vertical placement of the axle whatsoever. The trac bar is a necessary evil that is supposed to limit lateral axle movement only. wether you run one link on the driver or passenger side the trac bar is not the problem unless it was poorly placed/designed to begin with.
The problem is that you end up from having no engine torque and only 50% of the front braking torque applied to the front axle tubes with the drivers side upper to 100% of the engine torque and the opposite 50% of the front braking torque applied to that same tube with only a passenger side upper.
The problem is that you end up from having no engine torque and only 50% of the front braking torque applied to the front axle tubes with the drivers side upper to 100% of the engine torque and the opposite 50% of the front braking torque applied to that same tube with only a passenger side upper.
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goodburbon said:
Youu are very true on the trac bar placement. And make a lot of sense about the placement of only 1 upper arm mount. However it has been done countless times, I searched and found a few things but wanted to talk with someone that has theres this way. It is a 60, so I don't believe it will hurt the tubes, and 3rd I have a trussed full hydro steering setup that the upper arm is being tied into. I might go ahead and try to fab up an upper arm on the drivers side, but there is really no room. I will wait for more feedback.
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
There are handling issues based on exactly where on the axle a single upper arm is placed, having to do with overall power, link angles, etc. However, none of us understand it, and for what we do it really doesn't matter. The only person I've talked to who understands that is Drew Burroughs from Poly Performance (goat1 on Pirate). My upper arm is on the passenger side. Quite a few of the guys that I wheel with regularly have 3 links, and some are on the pass side and some on the drivers side.
I made mine on the pass side because of ease of fabricating (room), and because I liked the idea of the upper arm and the track bar being mounted together.......sort of makes a long A arm out of those two links. My track bar is mounted very high on the axle, which raises the roll center and aids stability, and the mount for the upper arm and track bar is very stout. I did have trouble twisting the axle tube on the passenger side once, but I partially contribute that to the fact that my D44 axle housing was bent when I got it and I had to have it straightened, which I think weakend the press in fit. To be safe, on any pass side 3 link that's not on a 9" housing, I'd put a bead on the tube to center section joint. It's very likely not an issue on a D60.
A track bar is your friend, I don't at all get folks who look for ways to eliminate a track bar like it is some kind of necessary evil. Especially on the front of an XJ, where room is tight because the engine is placed so far forward, a 3 link is a very good idea. With a 3 link there is more room to raise the upper arm to get better link geometry, and the track bar placement determines the roll center. On a triangulated 3 or 4 link it is harder to get the link placement right to give good geometry because the engine is in the way. I believe that the proper link geometry, the length and angles of the control arms and the placement of the track bar, is much more important than which side the upper arm is placed. Like I've said in all of the recent threads on 3 links, just be sure that all of the mounts are stout, since you don't want a link or mount breaking on a 3 link.
I made mine on the pass side because of ease of fabricating (room), and because I liked the idea of the upper arm and the track bar being mounted together.......sort of makes a long A arm out of those two links. My track bar is mounted very high on the axle, which raises the roll center and aids stability, and the mount for the upper arm and track bar is very stout. I did have trouble twisting the axle tube on the passenger side once, but I partially contribute that to the fact that my D44 axle housing was bent when I got it and I had to have it straightened, which I think weakend the press in fit. To be safe, on any pass side 3 link that's not on a 9" housing, I'd put a bead on the tube to center section joint. It's very likely not an issue on a D60.
A track bar is your friend, I don't at all get folks who look for ways to eliminate a track bar like it is some kind of necessary evil. Especially on the front of an XJ, where room is tight because the engine is placed so far forward, a 3 link is a very good idea. With a 3 link there is more room to raise the upper arm to get better link geometry, and the track bar placement determines the roll center. On a triangulated 3 or 4 link it is harder to get the link placement right to give good geometry because the engine is in the way. I believe that the proper link geometry, the length and angles of the control arms and the placement of the track bar, is much more important than which side the upper arm is placed. Like I've said in all of the recent threads on 3 links, just be sure that all of the mounts are stout, since you don't want a link or mount breaking on a 3 link.
- Location
- San Bruno, CA.
Goatman said:
It was an issue last weekend.
Passenger tube spun, taking out the yoke and output on the t-case. The abuse to accomplish that feat was rather impressive though.
vetteboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- morganville, nj
Goatman said:
My interpretation of the setup here was that he's actually running radius arms and wanted to just do one "upper" arm on the passenger side. Somewhere in there he mentioned having the Y-link setup before and using the same arms, just on the D60 instead of the D44, which is probably what gave me that impression.
If it really is a radius arm setup, then the positioning of a single "upper" doesn't really affect anything. The only effect I can think of with it on the side opposite the diff (aside from putting more torsion through the axle tubes), is that the u-joint angle will change more because the caster is fixed on the opposite side...probably not enough to make a big difference though.
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
Jes said:It was an issue last weekend.
Passenger tube spun, taking out the yoke and output on the t-case. The abuse to accomplish that feat was rather impressive though.
Wow! Yes, impressive. :wow:
That would ruin your day.
I didn't pick up on him talking about a Y link/radius arm setup. Yeah, which side the arm is on really makes no difference in that case.
I was hoping goatman would chime in. Thanks for the info. I believe I can attach the other upper arm but I am going to have to do some trick fab work. Can't wait till I build my buggy and get rid of these issues on how tight everything is up front. Again thanks for the info.
