Full Width VS. Stock

Was wondering about axles today. What are the pros and cons of full width verse stock width. Full width would give you more stability but maybe cut down the turn radius? Full width do look more aggressive but are they legal? Just Looking for every ones opinions/experience

Full width is the easy way to upgrade to stronger axles.
Narrow is what you get when you put actual time and effort into making the axle the correct width to fit your rig and wheelbase.
I have never seen any advantage to having wide-assed axles, unless the rig is running 44"s and needs the lower center of gravity.
Running my stock width axles and 35"s has given me the advantage over the big boys in almost every situation.

Wider is definitely NOT better.

I dig the full width thing.



It's never been a problem around here. In fact, short of maybe having to make a few extra turns on a sharp spot every now and then (which is why I installed cutting brakes), I can't think of a good reason why not to do it.

Aside from the huge cost and time investment, that is.

where I wheel full width axles are as much a problem as narrow axles...I like the extra stability...d60 rear is easy to source its the front that has so many options...my next one is going to be really wide and low. half ton late nintys dodge axles on 33" boggers...one day....IIRC old full width was 65" but my late model dodge d60 front is over 70" wms2wms...IIRC...I think the d44 front is the same width on the half ton dodges but I havent measured yet.

i have full width d44/9" from a '79 bronco and they are about 65" wms-wms

SUA SPONTE said:

Was wondering about axles today. What are the pros and cons of full width verse stock width. Full width would give you more stability but maybe cut down the turn radius? Full width do look more aggressive but are they legal? Just Looking for every ones opinions/experience

Click to expand...

Don't you have to fit between the trees?

I think a lot depends on where you wheel. In the rocks of the southwest full width can be a problem at times, yet other times is a good thing. In some obstacles the full width guys have to climb way higher to squeeze through something, sort of negating the wider/more stable issue. In the real tight stuff, many times the narrower axles are an advantage.

Certainly not worth going full width if you don't have to........like saving $$ on going to D60's.

I like the standard width better. Keep the lift height down and there are no stability problems. Besides that, I just can't get into that roller skate look.

i wish id narrowed my axles...

while ive never been denied because of my width, it has had VERY few advantages compared to the many times ive been hung up and had to turn wider or take a more rediculus line...

a narrower axle has more options on which line to take through a given section of the trail. still, the optimal track width is somewhat unique to each situation.

You can make them legal. I know up here in Washington(the PNW) cops are ready to write tickets for tires sticking out. My last setup was the 65" WMS-WMS of the '79 Ford 44/9 combo. I liked it. With a little better planning for my suspension control arms, and a tire narrower than 15" wide, turning is no problem for places like TSF. I haven't ridden Elbe so I'm not positive about that. I like my setup and using the 6" TJ Bushwackers I was legal.

Rear width without fender


Rear with full coverage 6" TJ Wackers


Front width without fender. It's tough to tell, but the front stuck out a good bit wider than the rear.


Front with full coverage fender. It's a little tough to see here, but its the only pic I can find right now.


I think that with keeping your lift height to a minimum, using a closer to stock width axle is your best bet though. Full width look mean, worked well, are easy to get ahold of, but I'm selling my full width axles to go to something narrower for my current build, because it's easier to stay legal and keep a greater turning radius.

-Kevin

So where does "stock" end and "full width" begin, then?

FWIW, Jeepin Jason reports that he's at 80" wide in the front now, with the stock Dana 30, Warn hub conversion, and 3.25" backspaced wheels w/13.5" wide tires.



I'm at 81" with OEM steel wheels.



Just an interesting point of reference....without getting into the effects of increased scrub radius and balljoint/hub leverage etc.

wheel bearings will last longer on a dana44/60 with stockish backspaced wheels than a dana30 with low backspaced wheels.

aside from that advantage, so far I like my fullwidths. i will be covering up my 37"x13 boggers with some 7" tj flares.

as far as trees go, I have yet to have a problem where my width is a major disadvantage.

I am running a full width HP44 and 60 on mine, and I am not having any problems with it at all. I am running H2 wheels, 5" of backspacing, and 37x13.5 boggers, and I am only 81.5" wide from the widest part of the tires.

I guess if you aren't having any problems, and you're happy with your rig, that's what matters.
I prefer to have an advantage.

I'll stick with stock width because there are more lines to choose from on most obstacles, and you can still get a couple inches wider on each side without really affecting anything just by using backspacing. I realize it stresses the wheel bearings more, but mine have stuck out 2" further on each side for 2-3 years now with no problems. The last trail I was on, our trail leader was the only buggy, and the only one on full-width axles. He had a harder time on many of the obstacles that TJ's, LJ's, & XJ's made look easy.

its all about the back spacing .like somebody posted above .I had axles out of a 78 F250 .Front 44 HD and 60 rear both untouched in width,with rims back spaced at 5" i was very close to a stock 30 with 3.75 back spacing.i could have gone to a greater back spacing but i wanted to keep the manual hubs protected some.

i believe when i checked i was right there around 80~81 "



with the Cherokee Bush Wackers





with a 14.5" wide Irok in the front a full tread block stuck out in the rear 3/4 of a tread block stuck out.

one thing i like about full width is better visibilty of tires. if you crawl it might be something to think about. i like seeing where my tires are at

hintonsooner said:

Full width is the easy way to upgrade to stronger axles.
Narrow is what you get when you put actual time and effort into making the axle the correct width to fit your rig and wheelbase.
I have never seen any advantage to having wide-assed axles, unless the rig is running 44"s and needs the lower center of gravity.
Running my stock width axles and 35"s has given me the advantage over the big boys in almost every situation.

Wider is definitely NOT better.

Click to expand...

"Narrow is what you get when you put actual time and effort into making the axle the correct width..."

I find this statement absurd. It's also insulting to those of us who have chosen to go full width. Anyone who has succesfuly done an axle swap of any width has put in a great deal of "time and effort". My rig didn't accidently fall onto a set of 3/4 ton axles while I slept. I planned it for months.

I chose full width for a variety of reasons.

1. IMHO, if you are going to go through the expense and effort to upgrade axles then you might as well go with a high pinion front axle. To me, there isn't that much benifit to swaping from a HP30 to a LP44.

2. Only Fords used HP44 with drivers drop diff.

3. All Ford HP44's are wider than the stock XJ axles.

4. Narrowing a Ford HP44 means running custom length shafts or narrowing to Waggy width, which is only a couple inches narrower and still wider than stock XJ axles.

5. Narrowing an axle is expensive, and to me was not worth to cost for only a couple inches.

6. Custom length shafts means spares and replacement shafts are expensive and have to be ordered.

7. You can use wheel backspacing to minimize overall width.

8. My full width Ford F250 HP D44/D60 with 5 inch backspacing and 37x12.50x17 tires is 80 inches overall width, which is the same width as those who run stock axles with high lifts and low backspacing and/or wheel spacers to improve stability. And I can use stock junk yard shafts as trail spares.

9. My axle swap is in progress, but I have driven 2 full width Jeeps and I very much like the feel of full width, especially on off-camber trails. It is easier to see the tires, and the tires help keep the sheet metal off the rocks. Hi lifts with narrow axles increases COG and is less stable.

Like so many other things, track width is a matter of personal preference. I am happy for you that you prefer your stock width. Perhaps you don't agree with running full width axles, but that doesn't mean those of us who do didn't put in "actual time and effort" into our axle swaps.

I too have some Full Width axles (D60/D44) out of a 74 F250. What size of wheel do I need to run to clear the brakes? 16.5? or can I run a 15"?

The bad part of the D44 I have is that it has closed knuckles, drum brakes, and low pinion. I figure If I use it I'll change the knuckles to open style, rotate the pinion up, and convert to disk brakes. But if I do all that it may be just a little more to go ahead and narrow them. I haven't decided what to do right now....they're sitting in the weeds right now.

Ackattack said:

I too have some Full Width axles (D60/D44) out of a 74 F250. What size of wheel do I need to run to clear the brakes? 16.5? or can I run a 15"?

The bad part of the D44 I have is that it has closed knuckles, drum brakes, and low pinion. I figure If I use it I'll change the knuckles to open style, rotate the pinion up, and convert to disk brakes. But if I do all that it may be just a little more to go ahead and narrow them. I haven't decided what to do right now....they're sitting in the weeds right now.

Click to expand...

That 44 probably isn't worth converting unless you want to stay closed knuckle. You will need to get all the outer pieces, IE. C's as well as knuckles, spindles, hubs, lockouts, brake brackets and brakes. It would be cheaper to find a later model axle and use it. There isn't any support for the closed knuckle but you might be able to get some custom brackets made and convert to disks. Those closed knuckle axles had bigger u-joints then the open knuckle ones anyways.