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Is this how starters fail, or do I have a different problem

@

@dam

NAXJA Forum User
Hi guys. I just moved from costal CA to Albuquerque. The past few days, my engine has been turning over slower and slower every time I start it. The battery was about 4 years old, and pretty corroded. I cleaned the terminals and then it wouldn't turn over at all. So, I put a new battery in, figuring the heat here caused it to fail. No change. I put a plastic-handeled metal tool between the solenoid contacts. I briefly saw sparks a few times, but nothing else. I might not have had it there long enough. The starter is covered in oil, but it has been for years with no problems.

So, do starters generally slow down like that for a few days before the conk out for good? Might it just be some corrosion or something somewhere else in my electrical system (although I probably wouldn't see sparks then)? Any ideas? How difficult are the starters on these thing to change out? It looks pretty simple at first glance, but this thing has suprised me before, and I've never changed out a starter before.

Thanks
-@dam

BTW- 95 Sport, 4.0 5-spd
 
Starters are fairly simple - but I have noted that the starter is held on with one "inch" bolt and one metric - but I've got all RENIX rigs, so I don't know about yours (consider this a caution...)

Starters can fail in various ways - sometimes all at once, sometimes gradually. Can you get a crank if you bridge the small solenoid terminal to the larger mains terminal? If so, then your problem may not be the starter, and I'd look at the start relay (I think it's in your PDC) instead. A screwdriver will work fine here - but it's usually safer to use a "bump switch" (allows you to kick the starter while you're still under the hood working, some jobs are made simpler thereby.) Kicking the starter over separately will help to isolate the failure - if you can do it, then it's not the starter, and it's probably either the ignition switch (topside of the steering column, down by the firewall) or the start relay (in the PDC?) If you can't, then start with the start motor.

Since you said you've cleaned all the contacts, I shan't repeat that advice.

5-90
 
Adam, the starter should be a piece of cake to replace.

Also, since you're from Albuquerque - check out the local Virtual Jeep Club
http://nmvjc.org

there's a forum on there also. If you're interested there's a wheeling trip to Puerco this Sunday at 8am. Looks like there's gonna be a big turn out. If you're interested in going and need directions feel free to pm me :)
 
Thanks for the advice. I probably won't do that thing this weekend, but definitely some other time.

Well, I went back to the parking lot where my Jeep was stranded to get some stuff out of it. I tried starting it, and there was no change. Out of curiosity, I tried shorting out the contacts on the solenoid again. I got a bunch of sparks, and eventually I heard the starter motor turn. It didn't sound like it was turning the engine over. After that, I went back into the cab, tried starting it, and it worked! The motor turned over slowly, but it started right up. I drove it back to where I'm staying, turned it off, and immediately tried to restart it. Nothing :( All I can here is the little tick of the relay. I wiped the grease and grime off the solenoid and tried shorting it again. Nothing but big sparks again. With the starter solenoid clean it was really sparking, so I didn't try that for long.

Intermetient problems are hard to diagnose! What do you all think? Starter? Solenoid? Someting else?
 
So your starter is misbehaving. Do you have a meter or a test light? Connect it between the solenoid terminal and ground, and see if it gives with a reading when someone turns the key (DISABLE THE IGNITION!) If it comes up consistently, then replace the starter. Considering relays are fairly cheap (I think HO uses a regular Bosch relay for the start relay,) you might want to change that anyhow.

If you want a solid starter, you might want to browse my site (link in sig) to San Jose Generator - I've been using him for years, and he does damn near bombproof work... I finally talked him into doing mail-order, and there seems to be a few other people here happy with his work (I won't say who, but you should be able to find out.)

The advantage to dealing with Rod at SJG is simple - you're talking directly to the guy that does the rebuilds. He does them in small volumes, and tests them ALL before they leave the shop!

5-90
 
My starter did this after sitting for a few months while my engine was out, when I tried to start it after putting the engine back in it did exactly what you said, clicked and you could hear a relay, I just got under it and connected the two points, it'll spark on you a lot if you dont hold it on there, if your just barely touching them it wont turnover and sparks fly and scares the crap outta you, but dont be scared to hold them together.. Just touch them for a couple seconds, let go then touch them again for a couple seconds and repeat that till the starter turns over. I had to do that about 20 times before my starter engaged, but after that it started with the ignition every time.
 
I'd say check the battery cables themselves and the grounds. Removing the starter is pretty easy and you can take it to a parts store and have it tested. I took mine to AutoZone. It was behaving similar to yours for a few days, getting weaker and weaker until it stopped al together. It failed the AZ test, I replaced it with a new Bosch, all is well again.
 
Sounds like the same behavior my starter had before it finally crapped out. It was a piece of cake to change out (except for the whole "Let's use 3 different sized bolts to hold the damn thing in there!" :gonnablow ).
 
Same happened to my starter....turned over slower and slower over a bunch of months. Then didn't turn over at all. One wack with a hammer got it going. Installed a rebuilt and turns over faster than it ever has.

But I got to hand it to the original Mitsubishi starter that was 15 years old...it did a hell of a job.
 
mine xj just recently stop strating also (thats when i put it on jack stands and starting building it ^up^)

when i try to turn the engine over it doesnt even click

my old cj7 used to click click click click then finally start , i replace the alternater and the click was bye bye:wave1:

so im thinking its the starter does anyone eles have this problem , when you try to turn it over and nothing happens expect the dash lights turn on

sam
 
Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I think I'll just get a new starter and throw it in there and see what happens. I already replaced what turned out to be a perfectly good battery, so I just wanted to check here before I threw more parts at it.

I'm suprised hitting it with a hammer will get a few more starts out of it. Why do you think? I'll have to give that a try so I can get it to the auto hobby shop on base.

I'll probably get a decent starter (Bosch?) Any recommendations on any other brand to get? (Sorry- no time to order the starter from San Jose)
 
I posted a problem like this about 3 or 4 months ago and everyone agreed it was my starter. It cranked really slow for a week. Took it to have the battery tested and as soon as he checked the battery i turned it off to talk to the guy...then amazingly it cranked fine and has ever since. I had already cleaned the terminals and all that stuff....everything was tight...the battery tester was magic i guess.
 
@dam said:
I'm suprised hitting it with a hammer will get a few more starts out of it. Why do you think?
Click to expand...

Mine started getting slow right after I bought it. I have a reman in the back seat that I'm procrastinating on, but I've had to wack it up to twice a week (good hammer blow to the brush housing works for me - don't wail on your trans cooler lines!) but the last time I got under and hit it has been probably a month ago now and it's still turning strong. As long as the hammer trick keeps working I'm not in any rush to replace it, but I'm ready to throw it in in case it doesn't work.
 
Just in case anyone was curious, or if any searches this thread later, the tips here were spot on. I wacked the starter with a hammer and then it started right up, telling me the starter was in fact the culprit and it was on it's last legs. I picked up a starter at Napa. The job was about as difficult as an oil change, and took me about 20 minutes taking my time.

Thanks for the help
-@dam
 
Johnny V said:
Same happened to my starter....turned over slower and slower over a bunch of months. Then didn't turn over at all. One wack with a hammer got it going. Installed a rebuilt and turns over faster than it ever has.
Click to expand...
Thats how mine went out too. I went with a new Napa unit, I didn't realize how much slower it'd been turning over. It turns over really fast now and starts faster too. I was starting to think that my newish battery was junk.
 
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