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Stranded again. Could this be a CPS issue? need help bad.

HeavyMetal

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fairfield, CT
so this is gettng ridiculous getting stranded 50% of the time i drive anywhere lately. i just got a ride home from the gas station.

Jeep will crank endlessly but not fire. If you wait a while and try it will fire if youre lucky. Jeep will also try and cycle down and die when put in park. It will also try and die any time i put the heat on. Jeep will rev up, then down, and then putter off(with heat on). It does none of this when im in drive with the heat off. I drove to the gas station, left it running with the heat off on purpose so i wouldnt be stranded by having to start it again, i come outside, and the jeep had shut itself off just sitting there while i was inside for 3 minutes. And of course voila it just cranks and cranks.

Can all these, or at least some of these, be CPS? and if not or there are other factors, what can i do? this has gotten out of control

any help id be really thankful for

oh and check engine light is on.

1997 cherokee AW4 / 4.0
 
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Going by your profile, you have a 97. Take it to Autozone and see what code is being thrown. To my knowledge, when the CPS goes out it will throw a code.
 
Taking it to autozone is a big risk of an adventure, who knows if itll start when im done? or even if i can start it to get there. i need to find a reader

OBDII correct?

other replies welcome
 
Might be time to invest in a scanner. And yes, OBD-II (any vehicle 96 and up is OBD-II).

Seems like I read somewhere on here that some of the 97 models the key on and off method that is used for OBD-I vehicles would work, but I could be wrong...
 
was just having this same problem with my 96 4.0. my fuel pump blew out and when that happened it grounded out the computer. burnt the ground off on the ecu side. so check your grounds on the computer. ran 2 new grounds to the block and it works fine for now, but will need to get a new ecu eventually. but this was just a fix for my rig, hope it may be of some help
 
Yes, OBD-II. Yes, you should have one on hand. Why have you not?

Check the CPS contacts by locating the CPS harness connector (should be somewhere near the rear end of the fuel rail) and disconnecting. Oftimes, the act of disconnecting and reconnecting the CPS connection will be enough to "scrub" the connections clean and allow signal to make it out again - if cleaning is necessary, a draftsman's electric eraser usually works wonders!

Meanwhile, here's an extract from the 1997FSM...

"FAILURE TO START TEST

"To prevent unnecessary diagnostic time and wrong test results, the Testing For Spark At Coil test should be performed prior to this test (I'll find it in a minute -Ed.)

"WARNING: SET HANDBRAKE OR BLOCK THE DRIVE WHEELS BEFORE PROCESSING WITH THIS TEST

"1) Unplug the ignition coil harness connector at the coil
"2) Connect a set of small jumper wires (18AWG or smaller) between the disconnected harness terminals and the ignition coil terminals. To determine polarity at connector and coil, refer to the Wiring Diagrams section."

(The grey wire should be ground potential, and the Dark Green/Orange tracer wire should be +12VDC. -Ed.)

"3) Attach one lead of a voltmeter to the positive (12-volt) jumper wire. Attach the negative side of the voltmeter to a good ground.
"4) Determine that sufficient battery voltage (12.4VDC) is present for the starting and ignition systems.
"5) Crank the engine for 5 seconds while monotoring the voltage at the coil positive terminal:
"If the voltage remains near zero during the entire period of cranking, refer to On-Board Diagnostics in Group 14, Fuel Systems. Check the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and Auto ShutDown (ASD) Relay.
"If voltage is at or near battery voltage and drops to zero after 1-2 seconds of cranking, check the PCM circuit. Refer to OBD in Group 14.
"If voltage remains at or near battery voltage during the entire 5 seconds,turn the key off. Remove the three 32-way connectors from the PCM. Check the 32-way connectors for spread terminals or corrosion.
"6) Remove test least from the coil positive terminal. Connect an 18AWG jumper wire between the battery positive terminal and the coil positive terminal.
"7) Make the special jumper shown in Fig. 11" See below -Ed. "Using the jumper, momentarily ground the ignition coil driver circuit at the PCM connector (cavity A7.) For vacity/terminal location of this circuit, refer to Group 8W, Wiring. A spark should be generated at the coil cable when the ground is removed.
"8) If spark is generated, replace the PCM.
"9) If spark is not seen, use the special jumper to grtound the coil negative terminal directly.
"10) If spark is produced, repair wiring harness for an open condition.
"11) If spark is not produced, replace the ignition coil."

(The "special jumper" referred to above is a "wye" jumper - one lead has a .33microfarad capacitor inline, and is connected to the coil negative terminal with a crocodile clip. The other is a straight jumper wire, which is momentarily connected to the coil negative terminal with a crocodile clip. Both leads come together into a crocodile clip connected to a convenient chassis ground. -Ed.)

"TESTING FOR SPARK AT COIL

"CAUTION: WHen disconnecting a high-voltage cable from a spark plug or from the distributor cap, twist the rubber boot slightly - ~1/2 turn = to break it loose. Grasp the boot - not the cable - and pull it off with a steady, even force.

"1) Disconnect the ignition coil secondary cable from centre tower of the distributor cap. Hold the cable terminal approximately 12m/m (1/2") from a good engine ground.
"2) Rotate (crank) the engine with the starter motor and observe the cable terminal for a steady arc. If steady arcing does not occur, inspect the secondary coil cable." ... "Also, inspect the distributor cap and rotor for cracks or burn marks. Repair as necessary. If steady arcing occurs, connect ignition coil cable to the distributor cap.
"3) Remove the cable from a spark plug.
"4) Using insulated pliers, hold the cable terminal approximately 12m/m (1/2") from the engine cylinder head or block while rotating the engine with the starter motor. Observe the spark plug cable terminal for an arc. If steady arcing occurs, it can be expected that the ignition secodary system is operating correctly (If the ignition coil calb ei sremove for this test, instead of a spark plug cable, the spark intensity will be much higher.) If steady arcing occurs at the spark plug cables, but the engine will not start, connect the DRB scan tool.. Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic Procedurest service manual."

I've elected to highlight the ignition system as well, because that's where intermittent faults tend to be found in cases like this (the fuel pump and injectors are electromagnetic mechanical devices, and they either work or they don't. The CPS - from which basic timing signals for both fuel injection and ignition are derived, is a Hall effect switch - it tends to fail all at once. Ignition systems are solid-state electronics - which can have intermittent faults, and can have intermittent faults due to heat! I find a hair dryer on LOW HEAT can help to isolate thermal faults in electronic controls as well... Nota bene!)

If you should need more specific test information than this, I (or anyone else with a 1997/1998/1999FSM) should be able to look it up for you. Also, the 1997FSM should still be available from Tech Authority, and they also turn up on Ebay from time to time...
 
I bought a down-and-dirty scanner from H.F. for $40 on sale. It'll only do P codes (powertrain) and clear them, but those are the most likely to pop up.
 
5-90 said:
Yes, OBD-II. Yes, you should have one on hand. Why have you not?
cuz unfortunatly im not made of money and have spent the rest of my available funding trying to get my daily driver reliable enough so that i can use it

but thanks for the rest of the info :)
 
HeavyMetal said:
cuz unfortunatly im not made of money and have spent the rest of my available funding trying to get my daily driver reliable enough so that i can use it

but thanks for the rest of the info :)

Oh - I understand that! But, as I've said before, sometimes spending a little money can put you ahead ($150 or so for a decent OBD-II reader, vice dealing with the "advice" of the AZ or AA droids or paying a tech somewhere to read it out for you. Scanner would pay for itself about the third time you used it, I'm sure...)

That's why I like pre-OBD vehicles - no codes, just straight troubleshooting...
 
Definitely. The jeep finds many ways to drain my account on a regular basis so its hard to gather a good base to use. You know the drill :)

ill try that stuff you posted up once daylight comes
 
HeavyMetal said:
Definitely. The jeep finds many ways to drain my account on a regular basis so its hard to gather a good base to use. You know the drill :)

ill try that stuff you posted up once daylight comes

I've got five XJ's in various states of (dis)repair around here - bet your arse I know the drill!
 
ok for the sake of search ill bump this with my problem solved

turns out i can run the code through the odometer by turning the key from off to ACC in this order: on off on off on, and then leave it on for like 5 seconds, and the code flashed. it flashed a code 54, which was the sync pickup sensor in the distributor. i removed the cap, removed the sensor, put new one in, and voila it works now.

one side note though, i Just installed this new distributor and i assume new sensor with it (reman unit) about 2 weeks ago, and the little contact point on the sensor i guess it is, was covered in gunk, just like oil grime. How is this possible???? i assume that was my problem
 
possible that you've got a fair amount of blowby and it's coming up the dizzy shaft?
does it lose/leak/burn oil?
could also be that it was packed in something to keep it from rusting while it was shipped.
 
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