DAMN problems with stoker rods look

[traitor5150]

Read this if your building or thinking about building a stroker and havent bought rods yet.


Ok So I figured this weekend Since I got my motor back from the machine shop today Id put my 4.6 stroker together. WELL when I bought my rods off an engine supply company reman they said Rod#707 and #352 where the same and they would interchange. Yeah ok they look very similiar they weight a little diffrent but I had them weight matched so fine no prob. Apperently my machine shop dident check all the dimensions, because they are the same length and now weight but the big end Dia is diffrent becuase when I installed the first rod+piston with a 352 number it fit fine everything is great. Well #2 goes in it's a 707 rod and the side to side clearence is huge!!! So the 352 rod is 1.058 in and the 707 is .998 yeah .06 too small so im screwd for this weekend untill i get 3 352 rods and repress the pistons. So that screws me for the weekend untill I can call them back monday and bitch them out.

[Sponge Bob]

I would also check the rod length i think the 352's are from a 232 which is the same rod length as the 4.0. but i could be wrong!!!!!!

[traitor5150]

Yeah the lenght is fine the 352 rods where for 82-90 i think and the 707 where for 71-82 Guess the crank is diffrent dia on those years too. I cant belive nobody else has ran into this problem everyone seems to just mix match cranks and rods and stuff me no such luck. I have 0.78 in sideplay!!! spec I think is .10-.19 :flamemad:

[Flash]

Read this if your building or thinking about building a stroker and havent bought rods yet.


Ok So I figured this weekend Since I got my motor back from the machine shop today Id put my 4.6 stroker together. WELL when I bought my rods off an engine supply company reman they said Rod#707 and #352 where the same and they would interchange. Yeah ok they look very similiar they weight a little diffrent but I had them weight matched so fine no prob. Apperently my machine shop dident check all the dimensions, because they are the same length and now weight but the big end Dia is diffrent becuase when I installed the first rod+piston with a 352 number it fit fine everything is great. Well #2 goes in it's a 707 rod and the side to side clearence is huge!!! So the 352 rod is 1.058 in and the 707 is .998 yeah .06 too small so im screwd for this weekend untill i get 3 352 rods and repress the pistons. So that screws me for the weekend untill I can call them back monday and bitch them out.

Man it's a good thing you checked that because you would have had 0 psi at idle with that kind of clearances.

I had a 360 chry that i rebuild with old hi mileage rod. Spec between the two rod was suppose to be .017" and i did check it.....025." that was only .008 over spec. I figured it would be fine. When the 360 got up to temp, it only had 10 psi of pressure at idle!
rev it up and it would get to 45 with my high pressure/volume pump!

and you have .060" of side to side Clarence!:shocked:


Your rod bearing probably wouldn't have lasted 10 min..........had you not check this!


Have you checked all the rods? it might not be as much the rod numbers, as it was previous Eng ware.

I would be checking all 6 of them!!


Flash.

[I dig AU]

Read this if your building or thinking about building a stroker and havent bought rods yet.


Ok So I figured this weekend Since I got my motor back from the machine shop today Id put my 4.6 stroker together. WELL when I bought my rods off an engine supply company reman they said Rod#707 and #352 where the same and they would interchange. Yeah ok they look very similiar they weight a little diffrent but I had them weight matched so fine no prob. Apperently my machine shop dident check all the dimensions, because they are the same length and now weight but the big end Dia is diffrent becuase when I installed the first rod+piston with a 352 number it fit fine everything is great. Well #2 goes in it's a 707 rod and the side to side clearence is huge!!! So the 352 rod is 1.058 in and the 707 is .998 yeah .06 too small so im screwd for this weekend untill i get 3 352 rods and repress the pistons. So that screws me for the weekend untill I can call them back monday and bitch them out.

I think something else went wrong with the shop. I have a matched set of the 707s, and they are fine. I even did a partial assembly with them before my engine plans got put on hold. I personally would not have let anyone talk me into mixing them in an engine, but whatever. As you said, they are different weights. I'll bet these are the guys on ebay. They told me the same thing. I found another source. They do interchange, but should be done AS A SET! The 707s are a "little" stronger casting. I also had mine "shot peened" to make them a little stronger. Cheap insurance for about $25.

It's a VERY tricky proposition to remove pressed piston pins after they are installed without damaging the pistons. The small ends of the rods are heated up so the pins just slide in gentle, but after cooling.... This reman company has really bozo ed your rods. There is a side clearence "rod width spec", once they go so far, the rods are junk. Looks like they are getting hard up for good cores. If you didn't have a money deal with them, I'd never even go back. Machine shop work is about details. Somebody was really asleep at the wheel.

Edit: Your side clearence can also be caused by the crank being worn out as well. You have some measuring to do. Is it the rods, or the crank (or both!)? With more people rebuilding these motors, this kind of checking gets more important. If your not having a GOOD machine shop check these things, then it's up to us to do it.

Good luck...

[I dig AU]

Way to early, I didn't read your measurments!!!

The 707 rods should have been the same width specs as the 352s. It was the reman company...

Sorry about that. More coffee...

[Flash]

Can you buy new rods for these stroker?

the motor that i talked about, I drove for several year, it was just a ring and bearing affair(and old dodge power wagon) that i used one's a year to hall wood.
The point to this story is that, i completely rebuilt it W/ new stock rod and the original crank(rod clearances when down to .016-.018")and the rod clearance was still over max spec(slightly) but the eng (with the previous installed high flow/high pressure pump) now has way to much oil pressure pegs my 100 psi gauge:scared: when cold, and hold 80 psi when rev up warm!)

so yes rod side clearance is vary important
I have been able to lower the oil psi by going from a 20/50 to 5/30 motor oil!


anther possibility could be that the crank person could have done something wrong in the crank or rod jurnal...........check the rest of the rod journals with that same rod ......it may be the journal. If that is the case, changing rod wont fix the problem!

flash.

[Dr. Dyno]

Read this if your building or thinking about building a stroker and havent bought rods yet.


Ok So I figured this weekend Since I got my motor back from the machine shop today Id put my 4.6 stroker together. WELL when I bought my rods off an engine supply company reman they said Rod#707 and #352 where the same and they would interchange. Yeah ok they look very similiar they weight a little diffrent but I had them weight matched so fine no prob. Apperently my machine shop dident check all the dimensions, because they are the same length and now weight but the big end Dia is diffrent becuase when I installed the first rod+piston with a 352 number it fit fine everything is great. Well #2 goes in it's a 707 rod and the side to side clearence is huge!!! So the 352 rod is 1.058 in and the 707 is .998 yeah .06 too small so im screwd for this weekend untill i get 3 352 rods and repress the pistons. So that screws me for the weekend untill I can call them back monday and bitch them out.

I have four 707 rods and two 352 rods in my stroker with no problems and a smooth engine even at 5000rpm. I weight-matched them all to 695g each.
It seems to me that the company that sold you the rods didn't make sure that your rods were all of the same width.
The rod and main journal dimensions of 4.0 and 4.2 cranks of all years are the same, so the big ends of the rods should also be the same. Basically you've been screwed (not necessarily deliberately) so you'd better call the engine supply company and tell them what the problem is.
An excessive rod side clearance will cause the engine to knock.

[traitor5150]

Well I know it's the rods because I have 1 707 and 1 352 in the motor right not the 352 is fine and the 707 is the bad one. So I also have 2 707 and 2 352 not in the motor yet. The big end width on the 2 707's are .998 and .998. The two 352's i have out are 1.058 and 1.054. Im going to take the other 2 out and check them next. too bad i allredy weight matched all the rods that means I had to grind the 3 good 352's so when i get 3 more 352's I have to match them now to the ones I allredy have. And I hope the machine shop dosent screw the pistons up getting the rods off because they are dished Keith Black and I dont feel like buying 3 new ones and having them dished!! I have terrible luck good thing I check other peoples work because id be screwd if I just trusted people.

[traitor5150]

Ok so I took the rest of the rods out the 3 #352 rods are all fine very close in dia they are 1.057, 1.057, 1.056 all three 707 rods are .998 exact. Also when I look at the 707 rods i can see that one side of the rod looks like it had material taken off to make it thinner but it is only off that 1 side so it looks like for some reason someone screwd up and milled down these rods. I have no idea why but it shure screwd me up luckily i bought them locally so im going there tommorow to bitch them out. The machine shop that did the work to my block, balanced the rods and dished/pressed the pistons arent really at fault because I brought them the rods, and told them just press the pisons on them and weight match the rods. They probally dident even check the mesurements because I told them where allredy remaned redy to go. So I cant really blame them and it was easy to miss. However Im going to hold the shop that sold me the rods responsible even thought my recipt says NO WARRENTY OR RETURN! I dont think that is legit because it's their fault and I think they should either have to pay to have the pistons redone or possibly pay for new ones if need be. What do you guys think, Im pissed

[Flash]

Ok so I took the rest of the rods out the 3 #352 rods are all fine very close in dia they are 1.057, 1.057, 1.056 all three 707 rods are .998 exact. Also when I look at the 707 rods i can see that one side of the rod looks like it had material taken off to make it thinner but it is only off that 1 side so it looks like for some reason someone screwd up and milled down these rods. I have no idea why but it shure screwd me up luckily i bought them locally so im going there tommorow to bitch them out. The machine shop that did the work to my block, balanced the rods and dished/pressed the pistons arent really at fault because I brought them the rods, and told them just press the pisons on them and weight match the rods. They probally dident even check the mesurements because I told them where allredy remaned redy to go. So I cant really blame them and it was easy to miss. However Im going to hold the shop that sold me the rods responsible even thought my recipt says NO WARRENTY OR RETURN! I dont think that is legit because it's their fault and I think they should either have to pay to have the pistons redone or possibly pay for new ones if need be. What do you guys think, Im pissed


man your in a he said, she said ...........why wouldn't they give warranty on there workmanship!!!!!!! whether they narrowed the the rod or not .they are reconditioned rod! they are at fault, for allowing such a rod to leave there place of business!!!!!!!

Good Luck to ya..........I hope they are a stand up company. it's not like you have even run the eng. They should take care of ya. if not you need to get hold of some on that has the authority to make it right!

If not then i think you should share there "name" with us so that we can avoid giving them our business.

Flash.

[traitor5150]

Well I dont want to start bashing them yet untill I see what they say tommorow they where ok when I bought the stuff off them so I hope they work with me tommorow. They where recomended to me by a good machine shop so they must be decent I dont know If anyone else has delt with them they are SIMPLEX Machine is Providence RI. Guess we will see tommorow

[Flash]

Well? are they a stand up kind a people.........or not:eye:

Flash.

[traitor5150]

Well I guess there ok. Called them yesterday said they would get me 3 new ones. Went there today and got them They pressed the bad rods off but told me they couldent weight match them because they dident have a gram scale. Even thought they are a full service machine shop and engine supply co? So I took it all to my machine shop that did the rest of the work and he said out of good faith because he dident notice the problem he is going to weight match and press the pistons on tommorow at no cost. So I Guess it worked out.

[Flash]

Well I guess there ok. Called them yesterday said they would get me 3 new ones. Went there today and got them They pressed the bad rods off but told me they couldent weight match them because they dident have a gram scale. Even thought they are a full service machine shop and engine supply co? So I took it all to my machine shop that did the rest of the work and he said out of good faith because he dident notice the problem he is going to weight match and press the pistons on tommorow at no cost. So I Guess it worked out.

sound to me like it worked out grate!!!!!! well if you didn't have to get extra rod to begine with, it would have been nice but........all is well that ends well!!!!!!!:thumbup:

Flash.

[traitor5150]

Ok so I got the rods installed, put it all together mesured all of the crank jurnal widths and width of the rods tryed to match them up so they would fit the best. However I have 2 rods have a bit too mutch side play spec is .10-.19 and im right on .19 bordering .20. Should I get 2 new rods and do it again but that means they need to get balenced and repressed thats like another $40. What should I do.

[Flash]

Ok so I got the rods installed, put it all together mesured all of the crank jurnal widths and width of the rods tryed to match them up so they would fit the best. However I have 2 rods have a bit too mutch side play spec is .10-.19 and im right on .19 bordering .20. Should I get 2 new rods and do it again but that means they need to get balenced and repressed thats like another $40. What should I do.

You will be just find..... i would double check every thing as you go along(with finding the problem that you did you won't be trusting any body work:scottm: ) a few thousand over on all rods would.........in a worst case scenario would make it so that if you ran 5w30 in the summer the idle psi may be lower then you would fill comfortable with.

You will be fine.

Flash.

[traitor5150]

Here are some pics

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i138/traitor5150/IMG_0001.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i138/traitor5150/IMG_0002.jpg

[tealcherokee]

very nice :D

[Flash]

Cooool......sooo Ya ready to trade, for a clean one(or more) owner 4.0 with a measly 300,000 miles on the clock. Babied every day of its life.(OR NOT!!!!!!!!:passgas: :scared: :laugh3: )Block has been naturally heat treated!!!!!(300,000 miles of driving it :rolleyes: ):anon: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


LOOKS GOOD:thumbup:


Flash.