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big GREEN wire at the PDC on a 2000

cklaus

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Blacksburg Va
Okay, for those not inclined to read the full story, the simple question is; what is the ~8awg Green wire that comes off the left side of the front of the Power Distribution Center (fusebox) on a 2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, 4x4, auto. I don't know how to post a pic but if you look at the link I attach and look at the last picture the guy has posted, you'll see the wire i'm talking about. Furthermore, if this wire is removed or damaged, can it cause a bad idle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-AUTO-6-CYL-4X4-SUPER-NICE-99-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ260086548917QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6281QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Now for the background, if i can heed your attention it is greatly appreciated. The XJ now has a no start/ bad idle issue and the insurance and Jeep dealer are claiming its not due to the accident because it was discovered after the body shop gave me the keys.

3 weeks ago my wife is driving the Jeep at her work 45minutes from our house when she gets rearended pretty badly by a 2000 GMC 1500. She was stopped and the guy drove into her at about 30mph. It was a 2wd that sits low and actually slid under the Jeep so the damage included: rear bumper pushed in, rear hatch was crushed shut (but caused the interior lights to stay on…this is important), the quarter panels were ripped down and now binding on the tires, the exhaust was ripped down and the unibody was tweaked (body shop verified this). The other guy’s truck looked way worse and his airbags didn’t go off because all the damage was ABOVE his bumper.

So the car got towed to the tow-truck’s lot. Insurance suggested it be towed to the local Jeep dealer/bodyshop for repairs. They did their work. We go to pick it up last Monday (12th) and the XJ didn’t start right. It would crank, sound like it would die, and then fire up…. Hmm weird I thought, but I assumed it was a dead battery or fouled plugs from being in a body shop. So we get home and parked it due to bad weather and it being dark, I didn’t get to do a thorough inspection. The next day, its freezing outside and the wife had errands to run, turns out, the car wouldn’t start right ( same as for me), then it died at an intersection while she was idling, started back up, then it wouldn’t start for 15 minutes in front of the post office, but then eventually started. I got home, popped the hood to check the battery terminals. I now noticed they had replaced the battery, and noticed that the GREEN WIRE that was once beside the PDC (fuse box) had burned off its insulation and was now black wiring. It was pouring down ice at this point so I had to go inside but called the bodyshop back up to complain about some problems with the liftgate (cheap struts wouldn’t hold it up and they painted the locking mechanism shut so the handle won’t operate properly) and then told them about this wire and it not starting. They said they were really sorry and to bring it up tomorrow. The wife brought it to them. They fixed the liftgate and said they replaced the wire. They even put a scan tool on it but “everything was ok.” They told her that they are not a mechanic shop can no longer help. She went to start the car and it still didn’t start right but she had to go to work. She got home that night, I looked under the hood, they had removed the wire, and no green wire was in its place… NO wire at all was in its place from the looks of it.
The next day it went to our local Jeep dealer and they said to leave it. I had the wife leave a picture I had of the engine bay with the original green wire and to tell them that it hasn’t started right since we got it back from the body shop and that the body shop apparently removed the wire.

I called back later and they said they didn’t know what had been done to the wiring, and don’t know what the problem is, but agreed that the OBDII showed no codes. They presumed it was the CPS or the ECU. They also told me that there would be no way for them to verify that it was due to the accident and the guy sounded like he wasn’t convinced it was. Well, they have had the Jeep for a week, and finally got the CPS instock and installed. My wife called this morning and they said it cranked up great on the first try. But now there is a second problem, they said it wasn’t idling properly.

I had called back the body shop to ask them about exactly what they did with the burnt wire, he said “ it wasn’t an original wire, when they got in there, it was spliced to a larger wire and was way too small a gauge and that they just replaced the main wire with proper gauge wire and removed the unnecessary splice.”

This sounded like a semi-logical answer until I found this ebay link of a guys 2001 cherokee with the SAME GREEN WIRE.

I am now weary that this Jeep dealership isn’t to aware of their own products or don’t own a 2000 FSM.

So, do you guys know what the purpose or official name, or better yet, part number , to this green wire is? Do you think that this wire burned out during the accident or when they likely installed the new battery and maybe shorted something? Do you think if that happened, it could have killed the CPS and possibly whatever other problem is now affecting the idle?
My brothers immediate thought was that when they were welding on the car for the rear-end damage or to weld on a new exhaust, they had to ground the welder to the car and they didn’t disconnect the battery, damaging the electrical components.

If you made it this far, my wife and I are extremely appreciative of your time and thought. I am a full-time medical student in my 2nd year and just had finals this week (woohoo, done with cardiovascular) and did not have the time to mess with the car myself. Its killing me inside knowing that strangers are manhandling our baby XJ and I just want her back in one piece, but also need to know as much info as possible to get insurance to take care of it. The Jeep drove perfect until this guy slammed into it.

The XJ is a 2000 4.0, np231, lifted 2”s with 265/75-16’s, and a 1 inch throttle body space. The car also has Viper alarm with remote start but it is fully functional and not causing the starting problem as I can turn the alarm completely off and it had the same problems.
 
The green wire probably has no part number. It is part of a larger wire harness and if you want a new one the only place to get it cheaply is the junkyard.

I welded both my front bumper and rock rails without disconnecting the battery, no problems there.

On my 2000, the small red wire from the battery ( 1 inch to the left of the screwdriver ) goes to the PDC and connects to the the green wire. The green wire is about 4 inches long and gets spliced to become a larger black wire with a white stripe that joins the wire harness at the tip of the screwdriver.

Click on the links for full size pics that you can download and save on your computer.

I would insist that the dealership/bodyshop (both the same place ? ) make the Jeep as good as new.
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http://www.fototime.com/433BC40C7D66BD8/orig.jpg
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http://www.fototime.com/98B98E5220F89B0/orig.jpg
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I know a guy with a 2000.....he says this wire goes to the alternator, and then to the battery. He upgraded all of his cables though so he doesn't have the green one anymore.
 
Thank you for the excellent pics Tim_MN. The place our insurance suggested it be towed to was the local (for where it was in Roanoke VA) Jeep dealer that allegedly had its own body shop. When i picked up the car, i found out that the one guy owns several dealerships and has one body shop that services them all. So when my XJ had its bodywork done, it never saw a jeep mechanic. And when they removed/replaced the burned wire and the problem didn't go away, they told me I had to take it to a mechanic as they had done all they could do as bodyshop ( leaving me upset with my insurance for sending me to a "Jeep dealer/bodyshop" that was apparently just a bodyshop with no mechanical experience or affiliation.) I then took it to the Jeep dealer near my house for repair.
I do want them to return it to stock form (pretty poor character of them to remove a wire and tell my wife they fixed something) but I was honestly planning on getting "kellys works in progress" wiring upgrade for it so ...

Anyone have any ideas how it melted its insulation and if a failed CPS and now improper idling may play into the picture?
 
If what you are calling the "Green Wire" is the same as my '96, it is actually a fusible link. And it is a size that you cannot get at any local auto store. It serves as a fuse. If it heated up and melted, that means you have a serious current drain somewhere. Why, because it is a 10 gauge wire. It is there to keep you from toasting your alternator due to excessive draw through the PDC. You can't even get it from a dealer. You would have to buy a new positive battery cable for more than a hundred bucks.
If it's cooked, you got a major draw through one of the relays in the PDC, like maybe the fuel pump? I don't remember all the relays in there but I know the fuel pump, A/C, and aux fan are in there. I would say they didn't completely check out the electrical system after it was repaired. And if they think it is only a "Green Wire", they don't know the Jeep electrical system.
 
thanks guys, great input, feel free to throw out any other ideas
 
Just going to second the fusible link that runs to the alternator, I just replaced my power and ground cables (thanks 5-90!), and while I was digging around, I followed it right to the alt.
 
davidb0986 said:
Just going to second the fusible link that runs to the alternator, I just replaced my power and ground cables (thanks 5-90!), and while I was digging around, I followed it right to the alt.
The 2000 does not have a fusable link and that is a statement directly from the 2000 FSM.

I quesitoned it as well when I replaced that silly green butted to a red wire going to the alternator, but after disecting it, found it to be nothing more than a butt splice.

If it is a fusable link, doesn't look like one and goes against the FSM. The maxi fuses are in the PDC so that's all I care about.

If your interested, here's the writeup I did on mine. http://www.4wd.com/4wdforums/showthread.php?t=23280
 
I am gonna have to find out exactly what the body shop did to the wiring. So technically if the "green wire" aka, the wire from the alternator to the PDC, was replaced with a heavier gauge wire ( and assuming its NOT a fusible link as it was in the older cherokees) and properly connected, then it shouldn't be a hazard and could theoretically be better than the OEM.?.? And this is assuming that the bodyshop actually put a wire in its place... I didn't get to look at it this yet and right now the car is at the dealership so i can't check. They are still trying to figure out the "bad idle" issue.
 
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apsdad said:
If what you are calling the "Green Wire" is the same as my '96, it is actually a fusible link. And it is a size that you cannot get at any local auto store. It serves as a fuse. If it heated up and melted, that means you have a serious current drain somewhere. Why, because it is a 10 gauge wire. It is there to keep you from toasting your alternator due to excessive draw through the PDC. You can't even get it from a dealer. You would have to buy a new positive battery cable for more than a hundred bucks.
If it's cooked, you got a major draw through one of the relays in the PDC, like maybe the fuel pump? I don't remember all the relays in there but I know the fuel pump, A/C, and aux fan are in there. I would say they didn't completely check out the electrical system after it was repaired. And if they think it is only a "Green Wire", they don't know the Jeep electrical system.

Your theory is largely correct - but you've got a point reversed in your application...

The alternator is a current source, not a current sink. Meaning: it generates current, rather than consuming it (there is a nominal current consumption by the field coils in generation, but the alternator puts out more current than it uses. This is possible due to the engine spinning the armature, so it's a "conversion" process, not a "creation" process - which doesn't violate thermodynamics.)

Therefore, the fusible link isn't there to protect the alternator from the rest of the vehicle, it's there to protect the rest of the vehicle from the alternator. Should something happen to cause the field windings to get full system voltage, the resultant current/voltage spike that would be generated would likely blow any semiconductor more complex than the average diode. This is why WiP offers ANL retrofits - not only to preserve the fuse protection that the OEM designed into the vehicle, but also to make the fuse protection upgradable and easily replaceable should it "go pop."

Apart from that, you are essentially correct. However, I'd probably start by making sure that the alternator output lead isn't being grounded somewhere - full battery voltage and current is available to it at all times, and if the conductor gets grounded, that would result in a "dead short" condition - and you'd blow just about any fuse in nothing flat! I went through this with a customer recently who had disassembled his alternator before he got my kit - and I didn't twig until he sent me pix of everything. He'd forgotten to put the little plastic shield around the alternator output lead - so the fuses blew out as soon as he put them in.

We fixed the problem, and I'm glad it wasn't serious, but he's probably still kicking himself (since it cost about four fuses before we figured it out...)
 
so i talked to the jeep dealer last nite. They said the CPS sensor fixed the no start issue. Then it turns out, they said it was idling fine for them, but they were trying to see why it stalled out at an intersection on my wife. They attributed the idle problem to a IAC problem which they said they adjusted. I asked about the alternator to PDC wire and they showed no interest in figuring out what they body shop had done and if it was even wired correctly at this point. They then sent the diagnosis and bill in to insurance and insurance told us that since we were "hit in the rear and the problem is in the front, they don't think its related."

I also thought i remembered reading somewhere that a bad CPS can cause an engine to stall at idle ( meaning it wasn't the IAC) but I now can't find where i read this ( i've been doing tons of searches on naxja and google and have read too much). Can anyone verify or shoot down if a failing CPS will cause a running engine to stall from idle (essentialy saying the IAC adjustment was unnecessary since it idled fine except for the one time it died at an intersection in traffic)? Thanx guys and gals
 
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