Rear Seat Belt ??

[AZRockRunner]

Ok, Does anyone know if it is legal to convert the rear seatbelts back to lap belts only in a 90 cherokee? I know that 89 has them as lap belts and 90 was the switchover year. My dilema is that I want to convert to lapbelts for 2 reasons. 1: my kids are in car seats still and lap belts work better.
2: this cleans up the rear quarter panels and allows me to use the open area behind the passanger side for a sealed port sub woofer without losing trunk space.

Or, whom to call and check within the state of AZ.

Thanks

[Wounded XJ]

The only state law I know when it comes to what seat belts is you must have in your vehicle is for the front seat passenger. Everything above a 72 must have a lap and shoulder belt in the front seat, except for the middle seat. When it come to securing the child passenger seats ass long as you use the appropriate seat with your set up. Some child seats are not made for only lap belts and you could be subject to a $50 fine by ARS definition, but all the courts add fees to that fine so it will be higher.

When it comes to federal standards her is what the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says.

Agencies are required to evaluate their existing programs and regulations by the Government Performance and Results Act of 1993 and Executive Order 12866 (October 1993). This report is an evaluation of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 208 (occupant crash protection), specifically the back seat lap/shoulder belt requirement. Back seat outboard lap/shoulder belts were first required in passenger cars after December 11, 1989 and in convertible passenger cars, light trucks, vans, and sport utility vehicles (SUVs) after September 1, 1991. Before this, passenger vehicles were required to have at least lap belts at all forward-facing rear outboard seating positions, although lap/shoulder belts would also have met this requirement. By model year 1990, all passenger cars, except convertibles, had lap/shoulder belts at the rear outboard seating positions. Similarly, many passenger vans and SUVs were equipped with lap/shoulder belts in the back outboard seating positions before the FMVSS 208 requirement.

The good thing is the FBI does not make traffic stops for that kind of thing and state officers can only enforce state laws. But with you fitting into the SUV you would be good since the date is Sept of 91.

If I stopped you and saw that you kids and were seated correctly I probably not even notice the conversation. I'm sure there are officers out there with more knowledge about the issue than I have, but the good news I know enough to be on the traffic unit in my department. I have included the child safety seat laws as well as the lap and shoulder belt laws below. Hope this helps.
28-909. Vehicle restraints required; exceptions; civil penalty
A. Each front seat occupant of a motor vehicle that is designed for carrying ten or fewer passengers, that is manufactured for the model year 1972 and thereafter and that is required to be equipped with an integrated lap and shoulder belt or a lap belt pursuant to the federal motor vehicle safety standards prescribed in 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 571.208 shall either:
1. Have the lap and shoulder belt properly adjusted and fastened while the vehicle is in motion.
2. If only a lap belt is installed where the occupant is sitting, have the lap belt properly adjusted and fastened while the vehicle is in motion.
B. The operator of a motor vehicle that is designed for carrying ten or fewer passengers, that is manufactured for the model year 1972 and thereafter and that is required to be equipped with an integrated lap and shoulder belt or a lap belt pursuant to the federal motor vehicle safety standards prescribed in 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 571.208 shall require each passenger under sixteen years of age to either:
1. Have the lap and shoulder belt properly adjusted and fastened while the vehicle is in motion.
2. If only a lap belt is installed where the passenger is sitting, have the lap belt properly adjusted and fastened while the vehicle is in motion.
C. A peace officer shall not stop or issue a citation to a person operating a motor vehicle on a highway in this state for a violation of this section unless the peace officer has reasonable cause to believe there is another alleged violation of a motor vehicle law of this state.
D. If a person is found responsible for a civil traffic violation under this section, a department or agency of this state shall not consider the violation for the purpose of determining whether the person's driver license should be suspended or revoked. A court shall not transmit abstracts of records of violations of this section to the department.
E. An insurer shall not consider a civil traffic violation under this section as a traffic violation against the person for the purposes of establishing rates for motor vehicle liability insurance or determining the insurability of the person. An insurer shall not cancel or refuse to renew any policy of insurance because of the violation.
F. This section does not apply to:
1. A child subject to the requirements of section 28-907.
2. A person possessing a written statement from a physician that the person is unable for medical or psychological reasons to wear a lap and shoulder belt or a lap belt.
3. A letter carrier of the United States postal service while the letter carrier is performing the letter carrier's duties.
G. If a person is found responsible for a civil traffic violation under this section, the person is subject to a maximum civil penalty of ten dollars for each violation.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/alisImages/ARSTitlePageOff.gif (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp) http://www.azleg.state.az.us/alisImages/NextDocumentOff.gif (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00908.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS) http://www.azleg.state.az.us/alisImages/PreviousDocumentOff.gif (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00906.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS) 28-907. Child passenger restraint system; civil penalty; exemptions; notice; child passenger restraint fund; definitions
A. Except as provided in subsection G of this section, a person shall not operate a motor vehicle on the highways in this state when transporting a child who is under five years of age unless that child is properly secured in a child passenger restraint system.
B. The department shall adopt standards in accordance with 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 571.213 for the performance, design and installation of child passenger restraint systems for use in motor vehicles as prescribed in this section.
C. A person who violates this section is subject to a civil penalty of fifty dollars, except that a civil penalty shall not be imposed if the person makes a sufficient showing that the motor vehicle has been subsequently equipped with a child passenger restraint system that meets the standards adopted pursuant to subsection B of this section. A sufficient showing may include a receipt mailed to the appropriate court officer that evidences purchase or acquisition of a child passenger restraint system. The court imposing and collecting the civil penalty shall deposit, pursuant to sections 35-146 and 35-147, the monies, exclusive of any assessments imposed pursuant to sections 12-116.01 and 12-116.02, in the child passenger restraint fund.
D. If a law enforcement officer stops a vehicle for an apparent violation of this section, the officer shall determine from the driver whether the unrestrained child or children in the vehicle are under five years of age.
E. If the information given to the officer indicates that a violation of this section has not been committed, the officer shall not detain the vehicle any further unless some additional violation is involved. The stopping of a vehicle for an apparent or actual violation of this section is not probable cause for the search or seizure of the vehicle unless there is probable cause for another violation of law.
F. The requirements of this section or evidence of a violation of this section are not admissible as evidence in a judicial proceeding except in a judicial proceeding for a violation of this section.
G. This section does not apply to any of the following:
1. A person who operates a motor vehicle that was originally manufactured without passenger restraint devices.
2. A person who operates a motor vehicle that is also a recreational vehicle as defined in section 41-2142.
3. A person who operates a commercial motor vehicle and who holds a current commercial driver license issued pursuant to chapter 8 of this title.
4. A person who must transport a child in an emergency to obtain necessary medical care.
5. A person who transports more than one child under five years of age in a motor vehicle that because of the restricted size of the passenger area does not provide sufficient area for the required number of child passenger restraint devices, if both of the following conditions are met:
(a) At least one child is restrained as required by this section.
(b) The person has secured as many of the other children in child passenger restraint devices pursuant to this section as is reasonable given the restricted size of the passenger area and the number of passengers being transported in the motor vehicle.
H. Before the release of any newly born child from a hospital, the hospital in conjunction with the attending physician shall provide the parents of the child with a copy of this section and information with regard to the availability of loaner or rental programs for child passenger restraint devices that may be available in the community where the child is born.
I. A child passenger restraint fund is established. The fund consists of all civil penalties deposited pursuant to this section and any monies donated by the public. The department of economic security shall administer the fund.
J. The department of economic security shall purchase child passenger restraint systems that meet the requirements of this section from monies deposited in the fund. If a responsible agency requests child passenger restraint systems and if they are available, the department of economic security shall distribute child passenger restraint systems to the requesting responsible agency.
K. On the application of a person to a responsible agency on a finding by the responsible agency to which the application was made that the applicant is unable to acquire a child passenger restraint system because the person is indigent and subject to availability, the responsible agency shall loan the applicant a child passenger restraint system at no charge for as long as the applicant has a need to transport a child who is subject to this section.
L. Monies in the child passenger restraint fund shall not exceed twenty thousand dollars. All monies collected over the twenty thousand dollar limit shall be deposited in the Arizona highway user revenue fund established by section 28-6533.
M. For the purposes of this section:
1. "Indigent" means a person who is defined as an eligible person pursuant to section 36-2901.01.
2. "Responsible agency" means a licensed hospital, a public or private agency providing shelter services to victims of domestic violence, a public or private agency providing shelter services to homeless families or a health clinic.

[AZRockRunner]

HOLY CRAP BATMAN!!!!!!!!!
That was THE MOST INFORMATIONAL response to a post in hisory I think.

Thanks ALOT for all that info. you answered my question EXTREMELY well.

See ya on the trail

Brian

[Wounded XJ]

glad to help:D

[cwstnsko]

One big question in my mind would be that if you did get in an accident and one of the children were injured, would the insurance company care if it was as safe or safer than the original, or just that it had been owner modified? I'd hate to see a financial tragedy piled on top of an already terrible situation.

I've seen several sub-woofer mods where a block was added to allow the seat belt to remain with only a small reduction in the size of the enclosure. This would seem like a reasonable compromise. I can't imagine pounding that much bass with the kids riding in the back anyway.

[AZRockRunner]

its not for the size of the base enclosure. Its for 2 reasons.
1: the rattle of the shoulder belt mechanism is annoying.
2: I ALWAYS slip the lap belt behind my child so it wont be at his neck.

I only have my kids in there once in a great while and I dont drive it as a DD anyway. It is a dedicated crawler.