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Cruzin Illusion
February 12th, 2007, 20:22
I build a custom width high pinion dana 44 for my XJ and have had quit afew enquiries. So I put this build and tech page together. I hope this helps others that plan on going down this road. I will continue to add on to the post as I have time to type it up. The build is done and works well.

In the late 1960’s Ford directed Dana to design a high pinion, reverse spiral 44. The first 3-4 years of production used a kingpin knuckle design that is obsolete, and difficult to play with. One could use an early housing and press aftermarket inner-knuckles on to fix this limitation. About 1970, Ford began utilizing a ball joint inner knuckle that is very common. The early to mid 70’s F-100 and F-150 Ford axles utilized drum brakes, and either a 5 bolt or 6 bolt spindle pattern.. This should not be confused with wheel bolt pattern. The spindle bolt pattern attaches the spindle to the outer knuckle. All F-100’s and F-150’s were a 5 on 5.5” wheel bolt pattern and they are about 67” wide, WMS to WMS. These early Ford units are desirable because Ford welded the suspension mounts (Radius Arm “C’s” as they are commonly known) to the axle tubes. Beginning in mid-to-late 1976, Ford began casting the suspension mounts as part of the inner knuckle assembly. These mounts take up a considerable amount of tube, and if you want to use any other than Ford’s suspension design, they will vex your efforts. In 77-79, the vaunted an highly prized “Camper Special” F-150 was available. This is basically an F-250 axle with 5 on 5.5” outers which you are going to ditch anyway (more later). Don’t pay a premium for this unit unless you have the odd desire to run leaf springs, as the extra material in the leaf spring perch makes it difficult to mount link mounts. The same applies for the F-250’s of that vintage. In late 1979, Ford revamped there whole front suspension design, and introduced the highly undesirable, Twin Traction design.

With this information in hand I set out to look for a 1970 to early 1976 Ford F-100 or F-150 High Pinion (Reverse Spiral Cut) Dana 44. I came across a early 1976 F-150 axle that I purchase for $175.00.
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/images/dana44/Dana441977axle1.jpg
I decided on those years because Ford welded the suspension mounts onto the axle and I had plans on shortening the axle to a waggy width (more on that later). I also want to run 5 x 5.5" wheel pattern.

I tore the axle down to the bare housing to get a good look at what I was up against.
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2301.jpg

I soon realized that the highly charished 1976 Ford F-150 axle with disc brake, was not going to be the cost savings I had planned on. The hubs, rotors, and hub lockouts were not salvagable. This is why you can use a 1970 to 1975 F-150 drum brake axle. You will most likely discard everything from the balljoints out.
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2302.jpg

I then cut the suspension mounts for the radius arms of the axle. This step was fairly easy. Just take cation not to cut to deep as to cut into the axle tubes.
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2303_152140.jpg
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2304.jpg

I then took the time to grind the remaining welds off the the axle tubes and took a wire brush to the axle to clean it up. Take your time on this step it will make the build cleaner and nicer to work on.

At this point I contacted Bob and Matt from TNT Customs about making a truss for a High Pinion 44. I have used the skills of Matt and Bob many times in the past. Being one of the first to run their Dana 30 Truss I know there attention to detail and quality was second to none.
http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV4/truss_d30.asp
After a few long talks with Matt and Bob about narrowing the axle to a Jeep Wagoneer width so I could use Wagoneer axles we came to the conclusion that to get the pinion inline with the front output shaft of the transfercase we would have to narrow the axle equally on both sides. This would cause me to purchase custom length axles instead of using stack axles out of a Wagoneer. Because I was planning on purchasing Chromoly Axle Shafts this was not much of a problem.

I did some research and came up with these measurements comparing the different years of High Pinion Ford Dana 44's and Jeep Wagoneer Axles.

1978-1979 BRONCO (Length 18.91 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 39143

1978-1979 BRONCO (Length 33.91 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 39144

1972-1977 BRONCO (Length 18.31 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 38809

1972-1977 BRONCO (Length 27.94 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 38810

1968-1979 F-100 PICKUP (Length 18.91 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 39143

1968-1979 F-100 PICKUP (Length 33.91 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 39144

1975-1979 F-150 PICKUP (Length 18.91 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 39143

1975-1979 F-150 PICKUP (Length 33.91 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 39144





1980-1984 WAGONEER (Length 15.8 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 39459

1980-1984 WAGONEER (Length 32.12 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 39461

1974-1979 WAGONEER Disc/Drum;Drum/Drum (Length 33.19 in.; 30 Spline;Driver Side; ) 39339

1974-1979 WAGONEER Disc/Drum;Drum/Drum (Length 14.69 in.; 30 Spline;Passenger Side; ) 38808

Using the measurements for the 1975 to 1979 Ford F-150:
18.91" on the Drivers Side
33.91 on the Passenger Side

And the measurements for the 1980 to 1984 Jeep Wagoneer:
15.8" on the Drivers Side
32.12" on the Passenger Side

I originally was going to shorten the axle to a Wagoneer width which would make you shorten the drivers side 3.11" (18.91"-15.8"=3.11")

and shorten the passenger side 1.79" (33.91"-32.12"=1.79")

But with the decision of shortening the axle equally on both sides to keep the Pinion where it should be it came out that I should shorten the axle on both sides 2.45"
3.11"+1.79"=4.9"
4.9"/2=2.45"

NOTE: If you decided to to narrow the axle to a Wagoneer width you would only be 0.66" off of center. The problem you run into narrowing your axle to a Wagoneer width, and keeping the coils center, is that the drivers side coil bucket will end up into the cast portion of the center section where the drivers side axle tube is installed. I truely believe that you can run 0.66" off center without ill effects.

To mark the correct spot where I was suppose to cut the axle, I took a few measurements. I needed to know how far out the inner knuckles sat out from the end of the tube. With my dial calipers I got a measurement of 0.130". So I added that to the 2.45" and mark the axle tube at 2.58" from the outboard side of the inner knuckle. I then cut the inner knuckles off with a sawsall just inside the welds on the axle tube. This gave me clearance to use a chop saw to cut the axle tubes to the right length. If using this method make sure that you set up the chop saw level and that the axle tube is also level so you achieve a perfect perpendicular cut.
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2431.jpg
http://rockfrogs.arlojeep.com/Misc-Pics/CI-HP-D44/100_2432.jpg

You will have to remove the remaining portion of the axle that is still left in the inner C's. To do this you will need to remove the weld portion on the inboard side of the inner C's. The most efficient way to do this is to clamp the inner C into a vise and grind the weld down till you are flat with back surface of the inner C. At that point you will want to grind in a cone shape removing mainly the portion of the axle that is still in the inner C. You will soon see a circular line appear. This tells you that the axle portion that is still in the inner C is ready to be pressed out or knocked out with the proper size drift and a hammer.

Once you have the inner C's cleaned up, and the axle cut down to the width desired, you are ready to install them back on the axle. First you will need to now what your Pinion angle will need to be. I took the measurement off the Dana 30 that was installed in my Cherokee to get a base line. To get this measurement you will need some type of angle finder. I have two types, a dial type angle finder and a digital angle finder. Both work extremly well.
http://www.thexota.org/d/3328-2/100_2657.jpg
http://www.thexota.org/d/3331-2/100_2658.jpg

The best way I have found to get the most accurate pinion axle is to take it from the differential cover mounting surface when the differential cover is off or the flat portion next to the differential cover where you would install a case spreader.

Note: This picture is not of my axle and used for reference only.
http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/JAfrontD44arb/images/large/Image01.jpg


I came up with a measurement of 13.5 degrees on my Dana 30 with my Cherokee lifted 9 inches. Due to the added higth of the Dana 44 subtract 0.5 of a degree to come up with a desirable pinion angle.

Here is a rough estimate of what your pinion angle should be with a desired amount of lift:

NOTE: All these estimates are based on using a Jeep Cherokee and should be checked.
6 inch lift = @10 degrees
8 inch lift = @12 degrees
9 inch lift = @13 degrees

With your pinion angle figured out you will need to level the axle. I used jack stands and cardboard to achieve this. Once you are level support the pinion yoke to the desired pinion angle.

It is time to set your caster angle on your inner C's. Ideal handling comes from about 4-7 degrees of castor. I’m very happy with 5 degrees. With the axle on a stand, you can measure the caster by putting an angle finder on the bottom flat of the inner knuckle where the ball joint presses in.

Set the inner C against the end of the tube, rotate it to the desired Castor angle and make a reference mark across the inner C to the axle tube. Set the inner C aside and use a square to mark reference line down the axle tube. This will give you a guide to keep your inner C at the proper Castor Angle will driving on the inner C. Just keep the mark that is on the inner C aligned with the mark down the axle tube. Remember not to drive the inner C to far on. You must stop at the previous measured point at which the inner C stuck out past the end of the axle tube. In this case it was 0.130".

You will need to repeat this process to both sides. Try to be a precise as possible. Your castor can ussually be off from side to side by .5 degrees without any effects to your driving characteristics. If you are off more than .5 degrees you should remove the side that is farthest from your desired castor angle by driving it off and repeat the install process.

Once the inner C's are installed back on the axle tube. Weld them into place.

This is not my axle. Picture was used to show progress.
http://www.fototime.com/{9FB626AE-FB84-4E99-9C56-B943F2936EE8}/picture.JPG

At this point I contacted Matt at TNT Customs about the High Pinion Dana 44 Conversion we spoke about earlier. I was told the kit was built and was ready to go into production. Bob at the shop in Wyoming had installed their first kit on a High Pinion 44 for a TJ and it fit perfectly. Matt cut the parts and I had them in no time. I took the kit and home and dry fit it to the axle and it was a perfect fit. Here is a link to TNT Customs High Pinion Dana 44 Conversion:
http://www.tntcustoms.com/webv5/Dana44Swap.asp

With parts in hand it was time to install all the bracketry that came with the conversion.

1. Truss with upper control mounts
2. Left Spring Bucket
3. Right Spring Bucket
4. Left Lower Control Mount
5. Right Lower Control Mount
6. Two Super Flex Bushing Kits


INSTALL STEPS:
1. Reset your desired pinion angle again and make sure your axle is level to the ground.

2. Place Truss onto axle. It will automatically center itself over the center section.

3. Rotate the Truss till the top of the Truss is level. (Depending on your pinion angle, you may have to trim the backside of the truss where it goes over the center section. Be careful not to trim anymore than necessary.)

4. Butt the Coil Buckets up against the edges of the Truss and level them. (Make sure you have the coil buckets on the correct sides.) Depending on what type of shocks you run you may want to concider step 4a. before welding on the Coil Buckets.

4a. If you are planning on running a standard type of shock with a bushing on the lower end, you may want to concider this type of mounting system for your shocks. I went to the hardware store and purchased two 5/8th's inch bolts approximately 6" long. I cut the heads off the bolts so they were like a threaded pin. I then flipped the coil buckets over and set the bolt onto the outboard side against the flanged portion of the coil bucket with 1 3/8" of the non threaded portion show and welded the bolt to the coil bucket. The reason for the 1 3/8" non threaded portion is to prevent you from overtightening the lower bushing on your shock during install.
http://www.thexota.org/d/2953-2/100_2451.jpg

Repeat this process for both sides
NOTE: Make sure you weld the bolt to the outboard side or there will not be adequate clearance for the shock.

5. Once you have the Coil Buckets against the Truss and level then you will tack them to the axle.

6. Remove the Truss and fully weld the coil buckets to the axle.

7. Place the Truss back onto the axle and level it.

8. Weld the Truss to the axle. CAUTION: This Truss was not designed to be welded to the center section. There is plenty of strength with the amount of weld surface you will have. Also you will want to move around when welding the Truss to the axle to prevent any possible chance of warping the tubes. If you have the capabilities to stand the axle vertically after you are done welding do it. I strongly recommend it. It will help the heat disepate up out the end of the axle tube. Remember heat rises and if you leave the axle sitting horizontally the heat is trapped and the axle tubes will not cool evenly.

9. Once the axle has cooled level the axle again and reset your pinon angle.

10. It is now time to mount your lower control arm brackets. You will take the lower control arm bracket and check to make sure it is the correct side. You can tell because when you hold the bracket against the axle tube it will angle inwards. If it angles outward it belongs on the opposite side of the axle. Once you have figured out which lower control arm mount is which side take it and align the inboard side of the lower control arm mount up with the inboard side of the coil bucket. You will then rotate the lower control arm mount till the top (or flat portion) is level or parrallel with the coil bucket. Then tack the lower control arm bracket in place.

11. Repeat step 10 for the opposite side.

12. After the the Lower Control Arm Brackets are tacked into place double check their location and weld them on.

http://www.thexota.org/d/2941-2/100_2447.jpg
http://www.thexota.org/d/2944-2/100_2448.jpg

VegasAnthony
February 12th, 2007, 21:39
shure does look pretty..mines not that sweet..I assume yoiu are gonna go with flat tops cheby outter gear right??

53guy
February 12th, 2007, 22:57
:rattle: That's it!? Aww man! Common! Fill us in on the rest!

Cruzin Illusion
February 13th, 2007, 04:12
:rattle: That's it!? Aww man! Common! Fill us in on the rest!

I will work on finishing the write up tonight but here is a picture of it complete
http://www.thexota.org/d/3281-2/100_2638.jpg

scottsxj
February 13th, 2007, 06:01
very nice, what welder was was used to weld all the brackets on?

Cruzin Illusion
February 13th, 2007, 06:43
very nice, what welder was was used to weld all the brackets on?

I used a Miller 210

Kittrell
February 13th, 2007, 07:02
I used a Miller 210

Lies! I see a Hobart in the background..................:D

Cruzin Illusion
February 13th, 2007, 07:21
Lies! I see a Hobart in the background..................:D

I used Terrys (87XJCO) welder at his shop. You know the guy did the work on your Jeep for free without any thanks.

tonesxj
February 13th, 2007, 07:33
I used Terrys (87XJCO) welder at his shop. You know the guy did the work on your Jeep for free without any thanks.

At least it won't rip off... Like other things you have welded without any "hey sorry about that's"..:wave1:

-Tony

87xjco
February 13th, 2007, 07:51
Here we go..

There's some good tech. here and this is a write up many members can benefit from.

Let's keep it technical and not go personal

tonesxj
February 13th, 2007, 07:57
Deal.

xjbubba
February 13th, 2007, 08:17
How is the clearance between the T&T truss and the track bar bracket on the driver's side? It seems the bridge over the "pumpkin" extends outward quite far, and may contact the track bar mount upon full compression of the suspension..

Good wright-up, by the way; thanks

Kittrell
February 13th, 2007, 08:22
I used Terrys (87XJCO) welder at his shop. You know the guy did the work on your Jeep for free without any thanks.

I guess I should have rolled down there on my way to the ER to have my appendix removed. Thanks for the reminder though, it's been taken care of, ass.

On with the tech...........:cheers:

Cruzin Illusion
February 13th, 2007, 08:28
How is the clearance between the T&T truss and the track bar bracket on the driver's side? It seems the bridge over the "pumpkin" extends outward quite far, and may contact the track bar mount upon full compression of the suspension..

Good wright-up, by the way; thanks

There is plenty of room. We flexed the Jeep out with a fork lift and everything had clearance.

http://www.thexota.org/d/3368-2/100_2664.jpg

baseballneal86
February 13th, 2007, 09:01
Is that a waggy pitman arm you're using?

Cruzin Illusion
February 13th, 2007, 10:21
Is that a waggy pitman arm you're using?

Yes it is. It is also retappered for a one ton TRE.

One Arm Steve
February 13th, 2007, 21:28
I really like your grill. How much time do you have into it? I'm sure the second one would go quicker, so when can I get one?

Bentonedge
February 15th, 2007, 00:29
ok now i am reading this right. you shortend the axle 2.45 on each side. that will casue the axle to ride .66 of of center. now there was no extra mods done to the truss it self.

now if that is all true. if i where to run full width and use the tnt truss, then i would still be tracking .66 off. i can deal with that.

Cruzin Illusion
February 15th, 2007, 08:23
ok now i am reading this right. you shortend the axle 2.45 on each side. that will casue the axle to ride .66 of of center. now there was no extra mods done to the truss it self.

now if that is all true. if i where to run full width and use the tnt truss, then i would still be tracking .66 off. i can deal with that.

No. TNT designed this setup so you can run full width and the axle still be centered. That is why I shortened my axle evenly on both sides (2.45" off both sides) rather than shortening the drivers side 3.11" and the passenger side 1.79" to match Waggy axle shafts. I figured I was going to purchase chromoly shafts anyway rather than running stock waggy shafts and getting them cut to a custom length was only $50.00 more. If you narrow your axle to a true waggy width then you will be .66" off to the drivers side.

Capt. Nemo
February 15th, 2007, 08:31
If you narrow your axle to a true waggy width then you will be .66" off to the drivers side.

What will be off .66" to the driver's side?

Cruzin Illusion
February 15th, 2007, 08:39
What will be off .66" to the driver's side?

The TNT Conversion kit is design so that you really don't have to take any measurements. With that said the upper and lower control arm attach points will be off along, with the coil buckets if you shorten the axle to a waggy width using waggy axle lengths. The pinion I don't think really matters being off .66" The kit was originally designed to put full width HP44 in XJ's, ZJ,s and TJ's. Along with YJ's if you run their coil conversion kit. I spoke with Matt at TNT about making a truss that moves everything .66" over for the guys that want to shorten their axle to a standard waggy width, but then you start running into problems of the driver side coil bucket getting into the casting of the center section. So all I am saying is if you would like to run a true Waggy width so you can run stock waggy axle shafts your front axle will track .66" off to the drivers side.

Capt. Nemo
February 15th, 2007, 08:46
So all I am saying is if you would like to run a true Waggy width so you can run stock waggy axle shafts your front axle will track .66" off to the drivers side.

If a person is going to use TnT Customs HP44 truss system. Got it.

53guy
February 15th, 2007, 09:41
Can't you just cut the mounts off and move them over a bit? Or is it just not that simple?

JEONLYEP
February 18th, 2007, 18:27
Can you get a shot of your track bar to axle mount? I'd like to see how you did yours, before I start building mine.

Thanks

DAryl

92SportXJ
February 21st, 2007, 17:52
The TNT Conversion kit is design so that you really don't have to take any measurements. With that said the upper and lower control arm attach points will be off along, with the coil buckets if you shorten the axle to a waggy width using waggy axle lengths. The pinion I don't think really matters being off .66" The kit was originally designed to put full width HP44 in XJ's, ZJ,s and TJ's. Along with YJ's if you run their coil conversion kit. I spoke with Matt at TNT about making a truss that moves everything .66" over for the guys that want to shorten their axle to a standard waggy width, but then you start running into problems of the driver side coil bucket getting into the casting of the center section. So all I am saying is if you would like to run a true Waggy width so you can run stock waggy axle shafts your front axle will track .66" off to the drivers side.


If the axle is off by .66" the the drivers side why couldn't you use your track bar to correct this and push it back .66" The idea of the track bar was to keep the axle centered anyways ?

I'm about to start my Dana 44 conversion and just want to know exactly what route I'm taking.

Trail Rated
February 22nd, 2007, 21:25
If the axle is off by .66" the the drivers side why couldn't you use your track bar to correct this and push it back .66" The idea of the track bar was to keep the axle centered anyways ?

Although the axle would be off center, the springs and suspension links would be centered and straight with the Jeep. Using the trackbar to correct for this would just throw off the springs/links by the same amount.

92SportXJ
February 23rd, 2007, 15:59
I took a bit but, I just figured it out.
I need more sleep ! LOL

JEONLYEP
February 23rd, 2007, 18:38
The D44 I'm using for my XJ is from a 79 Ford f-150. Instead of changing over to Chevy flat tops I'm using a Reid Racing (http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA44.php) knuckle so that I can keep all the Ford stuff that I already have.

http://www.reidracing.biz/images/D44001FR-A.jpg (http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA44.php)

Just an fyi for anyone looking into this swap.

I'll have more info in a few days when it shows up at my door.

DAryl

Kittrell
February 23rd, 2007, 18:46
http://www.reidracing.biz/images/D44001FR-A.jpg (http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA44.php)

More commonly known as Dedenbear.

JEONLYEP
February 23rd, 2007, 18:57
More commonly known as Dedenbear.
Yea, them too....

desracing
March 7th, 2007, 17:24
Are you still able to use 15" wheels with that knuckle? I assume you are using the ford f150 5on5.5 hubs/rotors?

JEONLYEP
March 7th, 2007, 21:05
Are you still able to use 15" wheels with that knuckle? I assume you are using the ford f150 5on5.5 hubs/rotors?
I'm a little worried about that, I was told that I could, If not I'll have some rims and tires for sale. Yea, I'm keeping the 5 on 5˝.

Brown says the knuckles will be here tomorrow (3-8-07)

Since the arms I have, have key ways cut into them. Friday I'll be dropping them off to the machine shop to get the knuckles milled to fit into the arms key way. I doubt that the turn around time will be fast enough to start fitting crap together this weekend.

So I'll be pulling, drilling and tapping the power steering for hydro assist.

92SportXJ
March 7th, 2007, 22:26
When you talk about taking the measurement from the outboard side of the inner "C" would that be "A" in the picture.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/100_2432.jpg

And did you take you 2.58" like this?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/100_2304.jpg

I have a 1974 Ford F150 HP Dana 44 that took a bit to find, so I don't want to screw this up when cutting.
Also what lenght inner axles did you finally get, I figured out they should be 16.46" and 31.46" is this what you came up with.

Cruzin Illusion
March 8th, 2007, 08:24
When you talk about taking the measurement from the outboard side of the inner "C" would that be "A" in the picture.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/100_2432.jpg

And did you take you 2.58" like this?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/100_2304.jpg

I have a 1974 Ford F150 HP Dana 44 that took a bit to find, so I don't want to screw this up when cutting.
Also what lenght inner axles did you finally get, I figured out they should be 16.46" and 31.46" is this what you came up with.

Yes I removed 2.58 inches from the outboard side (Representative A) of the inner C like you have it shown in the second picture.

The lengths that I order where the same as your figures:
16.46" from center of U-joint hole to the end of the axle shaft for the drivers side
31.46" from center of U-joint hole ot the end of the axle shaft for the passengers side.

Remember when reinstalling the inner C's to leave the outboard edge of the inner C stick out from the axle tube 0.130" if not your axle shaft will be to long.

desracing
March 8th, 2007, 08:29
hey cruzin illusion, are you still able to run the 15" wheels? if so what is your back spacing?

Cruzin Illusion
March 8th, 2007, 08:40
hey cruzin illusion, are you still able to run the 15" wheels? if so what is your back spacing?


I am running 15x8 black rock crawler wheels with 3.75" back spacing. There is plenty of room. It was much tighter with my WJ brake conversion on my dana 30.

Cruzin Illusion
March 8th, 2007, 08:45
Are you still able to use 15" wheels with that knuckle? I assume you are using the ford f150 5on5.5 hubs/rotors?

I am running Chevy Flat Top Knuckles, Chevy Small Bearing Spindles, Ford Hubs and Rotors 5x5.5, and Warn Premium Hubs. I am also running PMP Long Super High Steer Arms. You will need a high steer arm that comes out at least 7.25" from the center of balljoint to the center of the TRE mounting hole. PMP long high steer arms are perfect. You will also want to run a Waggy pitman arm because it is longer. This will give you back full throw in your steering, due to the longer high steer arms, and you will be able to turn stop to stop.

desracing
March 8th, 2007, 10:41
I am running Chevy Flat Top Knuckles, Chevy Small Bearing Spindles, Ford Hubs and Rotors 5x5.5, and Warn Premium Hubs. I am also running PMP Long Super High Steer Arms. You will need a high steer arm that comes out at least 7.25" from the center of balljoint to the center of the TRE mounting hole. PMP long high steer arms are perfect. You will also want to run a Waggy pitman arm because it is longer. This will give you back full throw in your steering, due to the longer high steer arms, and you will be able to turn stop to stop.


What outer stub axle are you using with the small chevy spindle?
Will the 80-84 waggy stub axle work with the chevy spindle/ford hub combo?

Cruzin Illusion
March 8th, 2007, 10:51
What outer stub axle are you using with the small chevy spindle?
Will the 80-84 waggy stub axle work with the chevy spindle/ford hub combo?

I am running chevy outer shafts. Yes the the outer waggy shafts will work. They are the same as the Chevys. Actually all the parts on the 80-84 Waggy axles are Chevy. The only difference is the inner axle shaft length. So you can run the backing plates and calipers also.

desracing
March 8th, 2007, 15:20
What gear ratio and tires are you running?

Cruzin Illusion
March 8th, 2007, 19:59
What gear ratio and tires are you running?

I am running 5.13 gears and 35x13.5x15 BFG Krawlers

desracing
March 12th, 2007, 15:14
Who did you order your custom length axles from? How much were they?

ZPD
March 13th, 2007, 10:46
Looks great. One thing to mention is your lower shock mounts. I did the same mounting position on my HPD44 and it put my shocks at a bit of an angle because the lower mount was further forward than the upper mount. This caused one of my nice new $100 BBCS shocks to blow out and bend a shaft on my trial run down a really easy trail. :gonnablow

onetallmj
March 14th, 2007, 15:31
So how much do you figure you have in to this project minus labor?

Randy_66
March 16th, 2007, 00:18
How is your turning radius compared to either stock or the D30 with the WJ brakes?
What did you do with the D30?

I like your grill too, in fact the entire rig looks sharp from what I can see.

Randy

desracing
March 16th, 2007, 10:31
hey Cruzin Illusion, whats the clearence like between the driveshaft and header? Any problems with anything hitting or rubbing?

Cruzin Illusion
March 19th, 2007, 04:56
How is your turning radius compared to either stock or the D30 with the WJ brakes?
What did you do with the D30?

I like your grill too, in fact the entire rig looks sharp from what I can see.

Randy

The turning radius is basically the same as it was with the HP dana 30. I originally lost quit abit of my turn radius running PhatJeeps steering but gained it back when I built my own steering when I built my WJ brake conversion and built my own steering set up. I am very happy with the steering set up. I was concerned with the long high steer arms that I would loose some of my turning radius and would not be able to steer stop to stop but with the waggy pitman are that has around an addition inch in length it works perfect.

Cruzin Illusion
March 19th, 2007, 04:58
Who did you order your custom length axles from? How much were they?


I order mine from Rockstomper and they were more than I would have liked to pay. You can get them from Butch on Pirate for around $550 delivered.

Cruzin Illusion
March 19th, 2007, 05:00
hey Cruzin Illusion, whats the clearence like between the driveshaft and header? Any problems with anything hitting or rubbing?


There is plenty of room and I have no clearance issues, but I am running a custom exhaust that was installed before the build. I know this kit has been installed on a TJ with stock exhaust and it still had plenty of clearance. It actually has better clearance than my HP Dana 30.

Cruzin Illusion
March 19th, 2007, 05:09
So how much do you figure you have in to this project minus labor?

I figure I have around $2500.00 into the build, but I did not scimp on any parts. All the parts are basically new except for the spindles, flat top knuckles, and break calipers brackets.

ARB
5.13 gears
Chevy Flat Top Knuckles
PMP High Steer Arms
PMP TRE's
New Loaded Calipers
New Ford Hub and Rotors
Warn Premium Hubs
Riddler Chromoly Diff Cover
TNT HP Dana 44 Conversion Kit
TNT Tie Rod and Drag Link
TNT Axle Side Trackbar Bracket
TNT Frame Side Trackbar Bracket
TNT Trackbar
Custom Length Alloy USA chromoly shafts
Yukon Super Joints
Steel Braided ARB Line
All new seals and bearings
1976 Ford F-150 HP Dana 44 with 1/2 tubes
New steel braided break lines
New vent hose

T&A-XJ
March 20th, 2007, 17:46
1976 Ford F-150 HP Dana 44 with 1/2 tubes


Do all of this model axle have .5" tubes? or are there some with thinner wall tubes?

Not sure if that is what you were referring to or not but got me thinking. Nice clean build, definitely a good reference for me to use.

desracing
March 29th, 2007, 10:37
What diameter tubes do you have? Do you have the 2.750 x .500? Do you know if all the early 70's ford dana 44's use the same axle tube size?

Prepmech
April 2nd, 2007, 20:15
What diameter tubes do you have? Do you have the 2.750 x .500? Do you know if all the early 70's ford dana 44's use the same axle tube size?

Most of the '77 and earlier axles with the weld on radius arm mounts have .5" tubes, the '78 and '79 axles with the cast on radius arms used the thinner tubes. There are some exceptions to this, so the best thing to do is to check the axle you are looking at.

desracing
April 3rd, 2007, 15:22
What axle tube diameter does the TnT conversion kit work best with?

JEONLYEP
April 3rd, 2007, 19:12
What axle tube diameter does the TnT conversion kit work best with?
I can't see where it would make any difference. The way the truss sits on the axle tubes it would fix any diameter of tube. Unless the tubes were so small that they fit into the truss.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Jeonlyep/truss.jpg

I made this as a quick cross cut view of how the truss (green) would sit on most any sized axle tube.

Just remember that their D44 Conversion Kit doesn't come with anything to mount the trackbar to the axle, and the website doesn't make mention of this.

desracing
April 4th, 2007, 11:55
What about the coil spring brackets? What size diameter do the work with? The reason i am asking is i have a chance at picking up a 74 f150 hp44 but it only has the 2.750 diameter tubes.

JEONLYEP
April 4th, 2007, 17:27
Okay, I see what you're saying. I just put the calipers on mine and it is 2.75. I didn't have to change the coil mounts before welding them up.

DAryl

XJ20
April 5th, 2007, 08:38
This is a great thread write up and thanks. What did your wms/wms come out at? I have an hp44 from a ’76 f150 and haven’t decided whether to narrow it or keep it full width. It’s specified to be 66” wms/wms. If you narrowed 4.9” then you were going for 61” I assume. http://www.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

Cruzin Illusion
April 5th, 2007, 08:41
This is a great thread write up and thanks. What did your wms/wms come out at? I have an hp44 from a ’76 f150 and haven’t decided whether to narrow it or keep it full width. It’s specified to be 66” wms/wms. If you narrowed 4.9” then you were going for 61” I assume. http://www.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

That is what I ended up with. The one thing I think anyone should do narrrowing an axle or not is to get your caster set correctly. I can not believe how much better it drives down the road with the caster set at 5 degrees.

desracing
April 5th, 2007, 09:22
Okay, I see what you're saying. I just put the calipers on mine and it is 2.75. I didn't have to change the coil mounts before welding them up.

DAryl

Thanks, 2.75 was the answer i has hoping for. I just wasnt sure if the 74 housing had the right tubes because i was told that some of the housings had 3" tubes.

MercenaryXJ
April 5th, 2007, 14:15
That is what I ended up with. The one thing I think anyone should do narrrowing an axle or not is to get your caster set correctly. I can not believe how much better it drives down the road with the caster set at 5 degrees.

What do mean by setting it at 5 degrees? Im getting ready for a similar project and I want to make sure everythings b/c this is my DD.

Prepmech
April 5th, 2007, 14:21
What do mean by setting it at 5 degrees? Im getting ready for a similar project and I want to make sure everythings b/c this is my DD.

When you shorten an axle you can set the caster wherever you want it by setting your knuckles at the right angle before welding them back on.

I'm just about finished with my build. Its a hp44 using the TnT truss. I left mine full width. I still took the time to cut the knuckles loose and turn them to get the caster right, it doesn't take too long to do and is well worth the effort spent.

XJ20
April 5th, 2007, 16:18
5° sounds great.

Well did anyone mock up the proper pinion angle for your lift and t-case position or do you just set it at 13° and go for it? I want to go for around 8” of lift but things may change a little. I want to start working on my axle after reading all this, lol.http://www.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

pics of my 44hp
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=909409

Prepmech
April 5th, 2007, 21:40
I set my pinion angle at 13 degrees, and my caster at 6.5 degrees (stock spec is 5-8). That gave me a little room to play with pinion angle later if needed, but the DS angles look perfect at 13 degrees on my 6" lift.

MercenaryXJ
April 7th, 2007, 10:39
I am running Chevy Flat Top Knuckles, Chevy Small Bearing Spindles, Ford Hubs and Rotors 5x5.5, and Warn Premium Hubs. I am also running PMP Long Super High Steer Arms.

Are those spindles the six lug chevy ones, and do they work w/ ford 5 on 5.5 rotors and hubs?

Where can you get the pmp steer arms?

Thanks in advance

Cruzin Illusion
April 7th, 2007, 16:59
Are those spindles the six lug chevy ones, and do they work w/ ford 5 on 5.5 rotors and hubs?

Where can you get the pmp steer arms?

Thanks in advance

They have to be the small bearing chevy spindles. Yes they have six lugs. Those will work with the Ford Hub and Rotor to give you a 5x5.5 bolt pattern.

You can get everything you need from www.partsmike.com

Here is the part number for the spindles: 706528X
http://www.partsmike.com/old/spindles.jpg

MercenaryXJ
April 8th, 2007, 07:23
Tanks again, just checking cause I want my swap to be as painless as possible

desracing
April 12th, 2007, 11:46
After the axle was all done did everything line up and bolt together good? Are the control arm lengths the same as before the swap?

TJMouse
April 15th, 2007, 08:09
Great tech. I have a housing I'm getting ready to narrow for a TJ, so this has been perfect. I'm still debating the waggy width versus centering like you've done.

One point causing me the delay is the fact that I will be moving soon, and will be unable to finish the build, or decide on the suspension. I will be adding 5.5 to 6 inches lift, so will set the pinion and caster accordingly.

TJMouse
April 15th, 2007, 18:50
Any issues with the steering? I've procured chebby flat tops, and am looking at the PMP arms.

rehab
April 16th, 2007, 15:43
Great tech. I have a housing I'm getting ready to narrow for a TJ, so this has been perfect. I'm still debating the waggy width versus centering like you've done.

One point causing me the delay is the fact that I will be moving soon, and will be unable to finish the build, or decide on the suspension. I will be adding 5.5 to 6 inches lift, so will set the pinion and caster accordingly.

i found a place online that will shorten your stock shafts and re-spline them for about 60 bucks. its way cheaper than alloy, and will still get you on the road.
http://moserengineering.com/Pages/Shop-Services/shopservices.html

TJMouse
April 17th, 2007, 18:01
Any issues with the pinion angle? It looks like it could possibly cause some interference between the pumpkin and the engine if the flex was just right.

iMav
June 16th, 2007, 14:03
Maybe an incredible stupid question (so forgive me if so haha), but is it possible to combine this type of axle with a WJ knuckle/brake setup?

xjbubba
June 16th, 2007, 17:35
No, the late model D30 & "TJ" D44 knuckles will not fit the early D44 "C's".
I have Chevy flat tops & PMP steering arms on my D44. I've found that with all that steering linkage, and track bar mounted up high, above the axle tube, potential for interference with the oil pan and damper are possible. I already dented one oil pan before adding more bump stops.
Of course, I have a SBC, and not the stock 4L. But my crank center line is the same as my old 4.0, so I'm not sure the V8 adds to the problem. Just beware, if you're going high steer. I had no problem with my old D30 vs the Chevy oil pan.

iMav
June 17th, 2007, 01:23
Okay thanks!

Reason for asking, because earlier I planned to do the WJ knuckle setup on my HP30 but as time goes by I'm leaning more and more to a HP44 swap. Just because I've got all the stuff here for the WJ mod I thought I'd ask if this is possible.

Hm then I've got to make somebody else happy with that stuff and start a search for some Chevy ft's. ;)

JEONLYEP
June 17th, 2007, 05:49
Okay thanks!

Reason for asking, because earlier I planned to do the WJ knuckle setup on my HP30 but as time goes by I'm leaning more and more to a HP44 swap. Just because I've got all the stuff here for the WJ mod I thought I'd ask if this is possible.

Hm then I've got to make somebody else happy with that stuff and start a search for some Chevy ft's. ;)

Now I'm only guessing at this, but the only way to use the WJ stuff would be to some how fit the inner c's from a 30 onto the tubes of the 44 then you'd have an HP34?

There are Fords to watch out for that have Flat top knuckles. Rummer has it that there was a super crew camper built as a F-150 that had flat tops on both sides. Most Fords flat tops are from F-250's.

Frank Z
June 17th, 2007, 16:57
Now I'm only guessing at this, but the only way to use the WJ stuff would be to some how fit the inner c's from a 30 onto the tubes of the 44 then you'd have an HP34?
Yep, doing it now on my HP Dana44.

Cruzin Illusion
June 17th, 2007, 18:47
I am not sold on the dana 30 knuckle swap. It sound like all you have is a HP Rubicon 44. You still have the weak 27 spline outers and the unit bearings. I had the WJ brakes on my Dana 30 and now run the Chevy brakes on my HP44 and it stops just as well as the WJ brakes did on my 30.

Frank Z
June 17th, 2007, 18:52
Thought about it long and hard tom. While the manual hubs are stronger, I had to look at it from an economic standpoint as well. I've already got 5 alloy wheels that have a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern. Carrying two spares isn't an option and buying 5 new wheels and re-drilling the rear axle wasn't in the cards either.


BTW, any problems with your shock mounts?

xj-grin
June 18th, 2007, 13:01
BTW, any problems with your shock mounts?

I think Frank is asking on my behalf, because I am working on my third driver's side mount using the "bolt welded to coil perch" method...

KJurasek
September 20th, 2009, 11:44
Beautiful job. Do you want to sell that jig you made for the axle? I sure could use it.

Begster
September 20th, 2009, 14:20
If you read the caption, that picture with the jig was not his picture. It came off www.madxj.com. Look under tech, and the first link which is a front d44 conversion, and you'll see the jig there.

Starboard M
September 20th, 2009, 16:29
Beautiful job. Do you want to sell that jig you made for the axle? I sure could use it.

You bumped a two year old thread to ask the guy if he wanted to sell you a jig thats a couple thousand miles away from you? :gee:




It is an awesome thread, but really? Thats why Al Gore invented the PM.

Begster
September 20th, 2009, 16:31
You bumped a two year old thread to ask the guy if he wanted to sell you a jig Thats not even his, and thats a couple thousand miles away from you? :gee:



Fixed it for you.