D44 Breakage, Vs. D30???

[Jimminyc]

So, im doing some comparison. And there is a ton of info on here about the biggest tires to run on a front dana 30. But, i was wondering, how much "Less" breakage have people experienced by swapping in a D44 to the front? Im looking into Alloys for my front D30 and running some bigger tires. I know with alloys, the gears and locker are the weak point, but with the 44, how much strenth do we gain, or for those of you who have done the swap from a D30 with Alloys, to a D44, what kind of breakage did you experience after compared to running a d30 with alloys?
89 xj, 4:56's, EZ locker, 34's, Rear D44, front 30
Brian:.

[Jimminyc]

eh, crap, accidentally posted in the wrong place...this should be in modified tech. Sory

[boise49ers]

Don't forget the knuckles. 44 knuckles are alot stronger. Unless you get the hybrid Rubicon 44s. I understand they are basically just Dana 30 knuckles.
44 shafts are quite a bit bigger then 30 shafts also. So if you go with a standard 44 you are gaining quite a bit of strength. Be prepared for quite a job doing it though. I haven't done a 44 front swap, but I know guys who have and it isn't a bolt in swap. How big of a tire are you going to run ? I basically run the same set up as you with same tires and I'm sticking with the 30 even when I go to 35x10.5 next tire.

[gregmondro]

I'm running 35s on my 99 XJ with a d30 in the front. It's not locked yet, but it will be in the near future.

I've had zero problems so far with the d30, but I also am not a person that will beat the hell out of my vehicle and drive with just the skinny pedal.

I'd say you're fine with the d30 up to around 35s, 37s being the biggest thing i'd ever want to run on it. With anything bigger then 35s i'd expect breakage.

When I lock my d30, i'm gonna do 4340 shafts (inners and outters, larger u-joints (760s). Right now the d30 is stock (except for 4.56 gearing) (297 u-joints for my year btw) and unlocked.

[boise49ers]

Yeah there are guys in our club that have 36 and 37 Iroks. They break shit constantly. Some of the 35" tires too. Mostly when they bind with a locker though. From watching them do it, I could see where if you are paying enough attention you could feel it happening and back off most of the time. Maybe being in the vehicle you can't feel it. You can see it trying to push back from outside though and just about the time you tell them to stop and take another line you hear the Big Pop.

[CanMan]

A D30 on 33's, lockrite, 4.56 gears, and I think 297 shafts. Going up a small dirt/rock hill. Oops, Matt.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d112/jeepin789/100_1548.jpg

[WA-HCXJ]

i dont have any pics, but i have blown up a complete set of factory inners and outers open on 31's. i might be lookin into some cheaper alloys for the 34's im gettin this month.

[JohnX]

4340 shaft from Yukon on 33's with a trutac. I drive very conservatively...nothing is bullet proof. Snapped the splines right off of it. Shaft was only a couple months old.
http://i6.tinypic.com/1zfpf5s.jpg

[Capt. Nemo]

So, im doing some comparison. And there is a ton of info on here about the biggest tires to run on a front dana 30. But, i was wondering, how much "Less" breakage have people experienced by swapping in a D44 to the front? Im looking into Alloys for my front D30 and running some bigger tires. I know with alloys, the gears and locker are the weak point, but with the 44, how much strenth do we gain, or for those of you who have done the swap from a D30 with Alloys, to a D44, what kind of breakage did you experience after compared to running a d30 with alloys?
89 xj, 4:56's, EZ locker, 34's, Rear D44, front 30
Brian:.

The bigger question is what kind of terrain are you wheeling? Just about everyone active in this section of the board can show you pics of their broken D30 stuff, and what they did/are doing to keep their front ends going - whether it's a complete axle swap or constant upgrades. There are way too many variables that play a part in axle breakage to compare a D30 and D44 versus how/what you drive.

If you're wheeling in the big rocks, CRASH's writeup is very good for explaining limits and options. If you're primarily wheeling in other stuff, I don't have much experience and, therefore, not much advice (stay away from mud - it's evil, period).

[Jimminyc]

Yea, i wheel here in colorado, All Rocks!
=JohnX, was that an Alloy shaft? nice break! :)

[CanMan]

Yea, i wheel here in colorado, All Rocks!
=JohnX, was that an Alloy shaft? nice break! :)

.....4340 shaft from Yukon....

[JohnX]

yeah...what he said ^

4340 Yukon

[Jimminyc]

I saw that, i just wasnt sure if Yukon, meant alloy, or just an aftermarket shaft. So, Alloy it is then. Bummer

[tealcherokee]

the newer 30 and older 44's use the same u joint

i swapped a 44 into the front of my jeep when my 30's hub assembly went

[Roxtar]

Extremely well trussed and overbuilt D30, complete with alloy shafts, Jantz Joints and ARB:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/kid4lyf/DSCN0023.jpg


Results of running 35" Creepy Crawlers in the rocks with previously mentioned D30
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/kid4lyf/D30ringgear.jpg

Yet to break my 44.

[Jimminyc]

I always enjoy seeing good carnage pics! So, Those of you who have swapped in a 44 have seemingly had less breakage it looks like. Ive got half a mind to just jump to a D60. I wish there was a narrow D60 out there that i could just weld on pearches and Go. But, i have heard that the easiest swap for the xj, would be a late 70's Ford D60 correct?

[Roxtar]

I always enjoy seeing good carnage pics! So, Those of you who have swapped in a 44 have seemingly had less breakage it looks like. Ive got half a mind to just jump to a D60. I wish there was a narrow D60 out there that i could just weld on pearches and Go. But, i have heard that the easiest swap for the xj, would be a late 70's Ford D60 correct?Mid 70s is easiest to narrow.
Late 70s has the larger forged RA mounts which require retubing to narrow.

[cracker]

Don't do the 44 if you can do the 60 but it is quite spendy to get it done (right)

[JohnX]

Don't do the 44 if you can do the 60 but it is quite spendy to get it done (right)
Yeah....And don't do the 60 if you can do the 80 :D

[boise49ers]

Yeah....And don't do the 60 if you can do the 80 :D
Ok this is definetly out of my ballpark. Man what kind of Rock you guys runnin ?
Do you have the link to the write up by Crash ?

[cracker]

Ok this is definetly out of my ballpark. Man what kind of Rock you guys runnin ?

He's being a wise ass. He's got a Dana 30.

[boise49ers]

Yeah I figured ! Thats why I like NAXJA lots of smart asses just like myself

[Jimminyc]

Anyone got a good lead on a D60 from a mid to late 70's Ford?
:)
i dont know, I just built this 44 rear....and now im talking about swapping in new stuff. its a never ending drive to go bigger isnt it!
Anyone got a 44 rear and a 60 front?? That would look sort of funny...

[myjeepsbigger]

My recent D30 breakage....wheeling dirt trails only w/35" Baja Claws & locked. I'm not really too heavy on the gas, either....but it really seems tough on the front shafts when you have them loaded heavy (like when the weight shifts to the front when entering a ditch, etc). I'm trying to band-aid mine through the summer, so I switched to newer 297 style shafts....and a feather-light right foot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC03014.jpg

Ball joint that went at the same time as one of the shafts (wasn't loose before, AFAIK).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC02999.jpg

[DirtyMJ]

Only thing I ever broke on the HPD30:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b46/dirtycomanche/P1010340.jpg


I haven't broke anything on my D44 yet, as it sitting in my garage...

[steelmen]

I always enjoy seeing good carnage pics! So, Those of you who have swapped in a 44 have seemingly had less breakage it looks like. Ive got half a mind to just jump to a D60. I wish there was a narrow D60 out there that i could just weld on pearches and Go. But, i have heard that the easiest swap for the xj, would be a late 70's Ford D60 correct?

why do you want a narrow dana 60

is your xj a DD?

or are your trails real narrow?

[JohnX]

He's being a wise ass. He's got a Dana 30.
Look whos calling me a wise ass...the almighty wise cracker himself.

oh yeah...I do have a 30, but I dream about a pair of 80's and some 40's to go with them.

[cracker]

Look whos calling me a wise ass...the almighty wise cracker himself.

oh yeah...I do have a 30, but I dream about a pair of 80's and some 40's to go with them.

Might as well go 44" or even larger at that point

Come to think of it, do they make a 80 front?

[DirtyMJ]

Might as well go 44" or even larger at that point

Come to think of it, do they make a 80 front?



Aftermarket, yes.


Never seen a genuine Dana 80 front though.

[Goatman]

Anyone got a good lead on a D60 from a mid to late 70's Ford?
:)
i dont know, I just built this 44 rear....and now im talking about swapping in new stuff. its a never ending drive to go bigger isnt it!
Anyone got a 44 rear and a 60 front?? That would look sort of funny...

I have a lead on one......

The biggest thing about getting a D30 or a D44 to hold up is the chromo shafts. Since they both use the same axle u-joint, and the ears on the axle yokes are basically the same, a stock D44 isn't much stronger than a stock D30 since the weak link in both is the axle joint and yokes. Upgrading to a D44 and using stock Spicer axles is close to senseless, so the cost of chromo shafts and aftermarket u-joints has to be figured in to the upgrade.

A D30 with good shafts and joints can be very reliable with up to 35" tires depending on what type of wheeling you do. A D44 with good shafts and joints is pretty damn reliable with 35's, but starts getting iffy with 37's if regularly wheeled in rocks. I never broke my D44 with 35's, but with 37's I've broken my D44 more than I broke my D30 on 33's. Of course, I'm much harder on the D44 than I was on the D30..... :D

On the D44 the most common break is the lockout hubs, which sometime take out the wheel hub. The next most common break is the stubs, which sometimes (most times) take out the spindle. So, you have a fully built D44, and still carry stubs, locking hubs, hub and rotor, and a spindle.

With bigger than 35' tires, a D60 is really nice to have. The problem is that a stout D44 (chromo shafts and joints, hi-steer) can be built for around $2500. It's nearly impossible to build a front D60 for under $5000, unless you run a stock fullwidth 8 lug Ford axle. If you want it to be narrowed and 5 lug to match your rear axle it's going to cost $5000 minimum with Spicer shafts and joints.

You got to pay to play. :confused1 :D

[Rev Den]

Call Currie.

Rev

[Matt S.]

Call Currie.

Rev

Why? so you can pay a ton of money for something someone else can do as a one off? I say if you are considering building something, go 9" with 60 outers. The next would be a HP 60, then a HP 44. I am working on 60s for mine as we speak, just trying to get them in my hands:passgas:

Goatman is correct on all accounts, unless you run 8 lug full width... a 60 is some shinny pennies. I am plannin on full width with 8 lug... so i get to do it the less expensive way. I dont have money tied up in rims and all that thankfully!

The 30 will hold.... just dont wheel.

[Rev Den]

Why? so you can pay a ton of money for something someone else can do as a one off?

Easy. Bolts right in. Not that expensive.

But...to each his own.

It is a option.

Rev

[Capt. Nemo]

Might as well go 44" or even larger at that point

Come to think of it, do they make a 80 front?

Petersen's mag just had a write-up about the D80's. You'd have to run at least 44's to keep the pumpkin out of the rocks.

[cracker]

Easy. Bolts right in. Not that expensive.

But...to each his own.

It is a option.

Rev

Probably the worst option.

The Currie 'brackets' are re-used Dana 30 brackets. It is a piece of $hit.

Get the housing from Currie yes but the whole thing, no fawkin way in hell.

[Matt S.]

Probably the worst option.

The Currie 'brackets' are re-used Dana 30 brackets. It is a piece of $hit.

Get the housing from Currie yes but the whole thing, no fawkin way in hell.


dats what i heard from lots and lots and lots and lots of peeps. but my hood is full of asshats like chrahkah.

Seriously... dont spend anymore on a 30 than you have to. lock it, gear it, wheel it, break it, save, save some more, then save even more, and buy a hi9 with dedenbear 60 knuckles, longfield CV, and some deep ass gears.

[XJ_ranger]

Im just a webwheeler...

but I NEVER broke my 30...

'upgraded' to a 44...

To echo Goatman - Buy alloys if you dump $$$ into any axle...
Stock shafts (dont have the budget for alloys yet...)
http://www.opiebennett.com/images/Jeep/PhilsRubicon62306/img_5706.jpg





But Im just a webwheeler :D

[Jimminyc]

When i think more about it, The pair of Dana 60's sounds like a great option. Ive already got a long arm 3 link in the front thats beefy tube. It would just mean welding tabs to the front, building steering, Pearches on the rear and hooking up brakes, and drivelines.
Easy right? :)
Now to find a good pair of 60's near Colorado.

[KarlVP]

even a pair of 60's require some big tires to keep the pumpkins out of the dirt.

I would say at the VERY least, 36 inch tires.

[cracker]

even a pair of 60's require some big tires to keep the pumpkins out of the dirt.

I would say at the VERY least, 36 inch tires.

40s ;)

hard enough to keep the 44 out of the way on 37s.

[Winks00XJ]

I havent heard of anyone swapping in a D44 from a Rubicon with the factory air locker. I did it on my 2000 and it was easy. My jeep got hit in the front from an angle which hit the front tire and bent the lower control arm mounts on the axle and possibly a slight bend in the axle tube. So the insurance company paid for the new axle and I just used one from a Rubicon and it is easy to plumb up a factory air pump to it and it is done. I did have to ahve the drive line shortened to fit right.

[CRASH]

I havent heard of anyone swapping in a D44 from a Rubicon with the factory air locker. I did it on my 2000 and it was easy. My jeep got hit in the front from an angle which hit the front tire and bent the lower control arm mounts on the axle and possibly a slight bend in the axle tube. So the insurance company paid for the new axle and I just used one from a Rubicon and it is easy to plumb up a factory air pump to it and it is done. I did have to ahve the drive line shortened to fit right.

Just not enough of an upgrade to make it worth while to most of us. No locking hubs, lack of true high steer, low pinion.

[Matt S.]

Just not enough of an upgrade to make it worth while to most of us. No locking hubs, lack of true high steer, low pinion.


exactly. I am keeping my Rubicon 44 only because i have a smaller lift, and its got a warrenty. Soon as its out of warrenty, a real 44 is going in.