dual batteries,receiver winch, opinions.

Thinking about my first winch this summer possibly, but I don't see the sense in a bumper mounted winch for these reasons..

1. My vehicle gets left at work a lot in the summer and there's lots of lowlifes there.
2. I can see lots of situations where there is nothing to hook to in front of the jeep and lots behind, love to hook up both front or rear for this reason.

So for this situation I was thinking of mounting the second battery in the rear cargo area.
What do you guys think of this and can anyone give wiring diagrams for a separated second battery like this. Thanks all!

Reciever winch mounts like to "twist" when your not pulling strait on from the center of the spool, and run a high risk of breaking. I haven't actually heard of it happening first hand, but i've seen them used and will not be in the vacinity a second time. Go bumper mounted and just weld one of the bolts to make it harder to steal.

You should always be going forward anyways

x2 what he said ^^^

you have to wire the batteries in parallel. doubles the amps, keeps voltage the same. you may also want to upgrade the alternator also, stock they are rated at 100amps, for winching its nice to have a 130 or higher to get the full potential or the winch. also use some high cca batteries (like optima) im pretty sure you can wire jell cell (deep cycle) and fluid cell together in parallel, they just have to be the same capacity. so if you use two 900cca batteries you really have 1800 amps to use.
here ya go:
http://www.zbattery.com/seriesparallel.html

Where is the best place to pick up 130 amp alt.? I am sure there are plenty of threads explaining all this but would you have to change anything else or is a straight bolt in?

Thanks
Bill

AlabamaBill said:

Where is the best place to pick up 130 amp alt.? I am sure there are plenty of threads explaining all this but would you have to change anything else or is a straight bolt in?

Thanks
Bill

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Click the link in my sig, and go to the San Jose Generator pages. It's the guy I've been dealing with for years, and I finally talked him into doing mail order...

It's suggested that you upgrade the mains cables, and there is/are (a) fuse(s) in the alternator output lead - either a single fusible link in the wire, or a pair of MAXI60 fuses. Replacing it with an ANL fuse is fairly simple - and the advantage there is that it's easier to change than a fusible link, and the fuse itself can be upgraded when you install an uprated alternator (I've seen ANL fuses up to 400A, and carry 100, 150, 175, and 200A pieces.)

what if you got a 24 volt winch, and wired your batts in series, that woudl mean your winch would draw half the normal 12 volt amps?! correct me if im wrong. Have been considering a 24 volt one for a while now

lazarus said:

what if you got a 24 volt winch, and wired your batts in series, that woudl mean your winch would draw half the normal 12 volt amps?! correct me if im wrong. Have been considering a 24 volt one for a while now

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A little over half - but it's still the same amount of electricity/electron flow. Besides, you'd have more work setting up a system to drain the batteries at 24VDC and charge them at 12 (it's doable, but it's a LOT easier for smaller current draws...)

rehab said:

you have to wire the batteries in parallel. doubles the amps, keeps voltage the same. you may also want to upgrade the alternator also, stock they are rated at 100amps, for winching its nice to have a 130 or higher to get the full potential or the winch. also use some high cca batteries (like optima) im pretty sure you can wire jell cell (deep cycle) and fluid cell together in parallel, they just have to be the same capacity. so if you use two 900cca batteries you really have 1800 amps to use.
here ya go:
http://www.zbattery.com/seriesparallel.html

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A voice of warning here. (note that I am not an expert, maybe an idiot, but not an expert...)

No matter what you do, the batteries will have differing characteristics.
They will age and charge/discharge at different rates, etc. If you simply
wire the two batteries in parallel and one has any problem that causes it to
appear discharged to the alternator, (like corosion or free floating crud
causing a short across the plates, different electrolytic properties, etc.),
the alternator will constantly pump excessive amps into both the problem
battery and the good battery, eventually, prematurely, ruining the better
battery.

All newer winches are designed to run within specific power ranges which
newer batteries, especially the Optima batteries, have no problem
supplying. Having double the amps is a good thing, but rarely will you run
your winch for so long without the engine running that you'll need the extra
capacity. If the engine is running then the alternator is charging. You'd be
better off with a throttle control so you can keep the engine up around
1500 RPMs so the alternator can do it's job better. If the engine cannot be run,
maybe you should have someone else winch your rig off it's roof.

You would be better off running the winch from a second dedicated battery which
is charged independently using a battery isolator. If you run that battery
dead during a recovery, you'll still have a good battery to run the engine
with. If the engine is running, the isolator will proportion the charging to
keep both batteries adequetly charged. If running the battery dead is likely
to occur, you need a deep cycle battery anyway.

Low lifes?? If you mount to the front and weld it on they could still hook up your winch and short the remote connector with a paper clip cousing real damage. Put a battery disconect on it.

I think a reciever mount is a good choice for you. Just keep in mind that it does restrict you to pretty straight pulls. I also think you dont NEED a second battery in your cargo compartment. You can run heavy guage cable from your battery in the engine compartment with quick disconnects for the rear mount and front mount. Just make sure you upgrade to welding cable because of the added length to the rear disconnect. Im sure others will say you should definately get a second battery, thats ok, I think one good battery and heavy cable will work just fine. Its really up to you though.

The second battery isn't needed to run the winch, so get the extra battery just because you have some other reason that you want one. The winch will run just fine off your 100 amp alternator and a good capacity battery in good condition.

I guess some guys like their reciever winches, but here's an observation. I've seen guys with reciever winches chuck them and go to a front mounted winch, but I've never seen someone with a front mounted winch wish they had a reciever mount. If you have a winch on the front you will always figure out a way to get yourself out, and the winch is ready to be used at all times. I've seen guys get hung up on their front reciever mount winch because of the loss in approach angle, I've seen guys having to empty their gear to get to the winch on the floor under their stuff, and I've seen a guy get hit in the head by his reciever mount winch when he rolled.

In my view, winches belong permanantly mounted to the front bumper.

Not that there is anything wrong with reciever mounts..........

Goatman said:

The second battery isn't needed to run the winch, so get the extra battery just because you have some other reason that you want one. The winch will run just fine off your 100 amp alternator and a good capacity battery in good condition.........

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I think he wants another battery in the back as place to hook up the winch when its in the rear reciever, correct me if I'm wrong.

88-xj-laredo said:

I think he wants another battery in the back as place to hook up the winch when its in the rear reciever, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Thats what I got from it. Thats why I suggested he really doesnt need one back there just to run the winch. Just run some cable to the battery under the hood and hes good to go.

As far as Goatmans comments on receiver mounts. I agree but considering his descrption of how he uses his Jeep, I think maybe a receiver mount would be the ticket (with obvious restrictions).
I recently had to make the same decision, I even already had a front receiver, and I chose to go with a permanent mount over a receiver mount because I wanted it ready whan I need it. I dont usually park in high crime areas though so I didnt have the worry of someone messing with it. My worse fear is coming out of Walmart and my cable be laying all over the parking lot or worse yet (actually funny) some smarta$$ would hook me up to someone elses car in the parking lot.
For someone who is concerned about people messing with it and only runs stock trails occationally, I think a receiver winch is a valid option. As was mentioned, Make sure its secured very well in the cargo area when not in the hitch. Never take shortcuts with that.

A lot of people ask me about the receiver mounted winches, there's upsides and downsides. Theft/vandalism unfortunately happens, had one customer who got rid of their winch bumper because they were sick of people messing with his winch. He'd come out to find it unspooled, wrapped around his XJ, one time pulled underneath and hooked around the driveshaft...not cool. But another plus is the ability to use it front or rear as well as having it mobile so that anyone with a 2" receiver can use it. I've seen them used to load stuff on a flatbed as well with hitch mounted on a gooseneck. Also keeps the winch out of the elements.

But there is a real problem with pulling off center, never liked that part of it. Lately the winch mounts I've been building for receiver hitches have some added reinforcement to help this. Usually I make adjustable arms that goto the d-ring mounts, sorry no pics. But I have a pic of another one I took during mockup. Those supports are adjustable so you can preload them and keep it nice and tight to the bumper.


In case anyone is wondering why the winch tray looks small-well it is! He's using a Warn 9.0Rc winch.

All great ideas, and thanks for the diagram. I just feel that the one time I get really bogged down will be the time there is 4 trees behind me and none up front, my luck maybe. I want to be safe but the other thing is that way I could switch it between my dd and trail rig. I agree it doesnt seem as heavy duty in a receiver but I'm weighing the pros and cons. Also my luck the receiver I need in the situation will be IN the mud anyway. BTW no rock crawling up here just mud and muck and snow. Yes I was thinking if the 2nd batt was in the rear it would be easier to hook up the winch when in the rear receiver. Keep em coming guys and thanks.

I wheeled with a guy who had portable winch on his Toyota, twice it was of no use to him, once cause the hole he was stuck in didn't leave enough room to slide the winch in, second he slid backwards into a tree(icy trail) and the way the he had it stored in the box he needed to open the taligate to get out the winch, which he couldn't do cause he was stuck up against the tree.....

As far as isolators and dual batteries go they are a bad idea. The islolators I mean. When winching you are pulling a few hundred amps, a typical RV type isloator is only good for 90amps, you will fry it very quickly. A marine one big enough to handle the amps will be VERY expensive. There is no problem with running two batteries wired directly together in parallel. Its done ALL the time on diesel trucks, look at any diesel truck, there is no isolator and the batteries are fine. It is recommonded that you replace them at the same time and use the same batteries.

If you want to isolate one battery to prevent both from draining while winching just use a contious duty selonoid between the batteries controled from the cab by a toggle switch.

That looks like a nice set up! Not sure what to do yet, there is so much to do it may not be an issue for a while but my dd is a 93 and my other is a 87 with d44, I would like to be able to swap the winch btw vehicles also, but at the same time I dont want anything cobbled together. I understand the issues with receiver mounted winches but there are also benefits. Love to get a winch soon but will have to think about it further. Another point is to get a bumper also doubles my cost, especially up here in the land of liberals! Thanks for the input keep em coming.

My old truck had the front and back receiver winch setup. Used it a few times from the rear, but could have gotten away without it back there. I built the mounting myself, and never had problems on the hardest sidepulls the xd9000 could pull. Also, I ran one heavy 00 gauge cable back to the quick connect for power. No loss of voltage. However, when I get around to building my xj, it will be front mount only and forget about it. I wheeled a lot and found that for me, receiver mounting was more hassle than it was worth.

cLAYH said:

There is no problem with running two batteries wired directly together in parallel. Its done ALL the time on diesel trucks, look at any diesel truck, there is no isolator and the batteries are fine. It is recommonded that you replace them at the same time and use the same batteries.

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I agree 100%. This seems to be a little known fact when it comes to the general automotive public. Once again as stated above, as long as the batteries are of the same age, type, and capacity connecting them directly to each other will not cause any trouble.