Trouble in Paradise, rusty's 4.5 XJ lift

[wiltj]

Ok so I got my sweet 99 XJ and I finally save up for a real lift, and tire package, so I go with the rusty’s 4.5 XJ and im totally excited.

But when im with my buddy at his shop starting to put that stuff on(last sat) we notice parts are missing. so its like I had to call the guys and get them to send the new parts and I get them today (Friday) and it looks like they wont be done with it until tomorrow (a week later) so its like ive had a dead jeep for like a week, and possibly more…

So in regards to the front suspension I had to get them to send me the adjustable trak bar that was supposed to come with the kit. … but did not . so my mechanic is looking at this front and the springs just wont go on, nor the shocks, the axle is just twisted too far back because the new lower control arms are longer then the top. so the axle is twisted so that its like the top is facing one oclock instead of twelve. So I call the rustys guys, and they treat me like im some sort of an idiot, and that I should just do it, and compress my driveshaft even more. Than I already have, and that once the thing sits on the ground, that it will all even out, but im like well shit. That’s gona stress all the parts.

So its like I wana know has anyone else done this lift, and have better instructions than these given to me or at least advice on why it looks like the spring will fly out into my face?

Cuz im just a little annoyed that I might have pissed away a half a year of my paychecks for a faulty system that is turning into one big nightmare. Im a college student so money is rare for me and to waste 1500 of it would just suck, also what append to the love here?

Sorry to sound angry, im just. Disappointed.


So long story short, im looking for help/suggestions as what to do next. I dot want to ruin either the jeep or the lift. And im totally at a dead end and the end of my rope here.
and damm im sorry for being so long winded...

[stewie]

i installed rustys 4.5 on my 95. the only problems i had was broken bolts (never had to deal with rust back when i lived in Az) and the instructions were a little vague. they realy could have used illistrations or pictures to clarify some aspects. the front went on fairly easily for me. i had to compress the springs to get the control arms to line up properly. if your having problems getting results via telephone, see if they have a tech support email address and send them some pictures see if they can straighten you out.

[KarlVP]

If you can shoot some pics, we may be able to help you figure it out.

[ckh550]

You actually typed the word 'like' throughout your first post. Like, who does that duuuude??

Sorry, back on topic.

[creeperjeep]

like its fairly straight forward.
Like take out the old springs and uhh like put the new ones in, and like force them.
If that doesnt work like unbolt the upper arms and the shocks and stuff.
Like whatever makes it like not come down just like unbolt it.
with like 4.5 inch lifts and stuff you like have to man handle the spring to get it into place and stuff.
throw like some muscle into it, you wont break anything besides brake lines if they arent disconnected and stuff.

[wil4thril]

Do a search for a 4.5 lift Rustys (short arm I imagine) and see what problems others ran into and how they solved them.

Next search for LCA/UCA lenghts that fit diffrent lift hights. Measure what you have and see if it is close. Most numbers are estimates anyways. Also if I read correctly your coils are not level. That might be caused by the TB being way out of wack or maybe the Swaybar links (not sure about that one).

Take stewie's advice and send them some pictures of your problem too. This might clear up any verbal confusion that you might have encountered on the phone.

Always plan for the worst and you will never be like "disappointed".

[stewie]

Always plan for the worst and you will never be like "disappointed".

and i forgot to mention it took me a week to do mine (after work until 12am in the snowstorms on an uncovered drive way). then again it was the first time for me doing alot of what was entailed in the project. thankfully i have 2 DDs. im sure next time it will take me at least 12 hours less.

[shortxjdoug]

if you unhooked the old lowers and swaybar on a vehicle lift and it was suspended only by the uppers the axle will drop TOO far into the position you are talking about. the kit is right your just doing it in the wrong order, with arms in and swaybar off you can dop the axle far enough so you can compress the spring (yes it does need to be compressed to get it in a short arm lift) and get it where it needs to go. pics would also help as i am going off of your description only. control arms are easiest while the truck is on the ground, it took me 10 minutes to swap in rustys 4.5 lowers

[boise49ers]

like its fairly straight forward.
Like take out the old springs and uhh like put the new ones in, and like force them.
If that doesnt work like unbolt the upper arms and the shocks and stuff.
Like whatever makes it like not come down just like unbolt it.
with like 4.5 inch lifts and stuff you like have to man handle the spring to get it into place and stuff.
throw like some muscle into it, you wont break anything besides brake lines if they arent disconnected and stuff.
Like leave him alone. He is frustrated enough with out being F***ed with. Think of how you feel when things aren't working out well and remember these are his wheels and he isn't able to even use them.
Sounds like you may need adjustable LCAs at some point. They will help with the harsh ride you are going to experiance also. You should still be able to run it until then though.

[wiltj]

i only used like , 9 times haha,, anway that makes sense, if this lift is a short arm, then i woudent need to get longer uppers, so im geussing the rusty's 4.5 is this said short arm lift and with compressors the lift would fit in correctley? see my mechanic was worried that once it was all in ther it would stress the drive shaft and try to turn the axle backwards again, but this stress is a small stress im geussing?

[boise49ers]

The Adjustable LCAs actually will help with bind and postioning of the axle. They also take side to side stress off the brackets. The stock LCAs actually flex some what, but the fixed HD LCAs have no flex so all the torque is transfered to the brackets. The brackets have some really sorry factory welds on them too. It is just something to keep in mind for the future. Helps in articulation also.
Good luck, let us know when you get it back on the road. You will be Happy with the off-road difference.
Cyuh ~

[Cornflake]

I've had their 4.5 lift on for over a year. Fairly easy to install, though I found better instructions online through researching, but has been a great product overall.

[dj's 2000 xj]

I have 4.5 lift on my 2000, took some pry bars, BFH, and a little foul language but all went on and still drives straight with no vibes. I have a rough country short arm 4.5. kit. Just push a little harder next time. :) Is this the first lift installed by the mechanic? honest question.

[Cox89XJ]

like its fairly straight forward.
Like take out the old springs and uhh like put the new ones in, and like force them.
If that doesnt work like unbolt the upper arms and the shocks and stuff.
Like whatever makes it like not come down just like unbolt it.
with like 4.5 inch lifts and stuff you like have to man handle the spring to get it into place and stuff.
throw like some muscle into it, you wont break anything besides brake lines if they arent disconnected and stuff.


Well said Matt.
It's not and easy MOD, but fairly straight foward.
I have the 4.5 full spring kit. Like said in an earlier post. Broke bolts was the only problem.
Took me approx. 12 hours to put the lift on. Very well pleased.

[DaffyXJ]

Rustys 4.5 inch lift was the first one I put on my XJ. Took me 2 full days. By myself. My advise is fire the mechanic who is/was working on it and do it yourself. You will acquire the tools you will need in the future and will also know how it fits together and how to correct issues in the future. That way when you are on the trail and something fails (eventually something WILL fail) We (the others that are with you) will not have to work on your broken Junk, because you will know how it was put together and how to fix it!!!
This is my XJ 3 years ago on Rustys 4.5 inch lift with 32's
http://www.tqci.net/~scot/xjindex/daffyxj.jpg
This is my XJ now with Rustys 6.5 inch long arm/38's and a modest amount of custom mods to make it work.
http://www.tqci.net/~scot/IMG_1401a.jpg

The point here is asking questions is fine in my opinion, asking them because the person you hired to work for you is unknowledgeable is as lame as hiring a person to do the work for you...
Lifts on an XJ are the easiest thing you will come across, wait till you get to suspension tuning, flex maximization, gears/lockers, steering tuning, crawl ratios, etc. etc. Jump in, learn it yourself, Folks will have MUCH more respect for you, even if it's a grocery getter, if you did it yourself....
Sorry to come across hard, but just because the guy you hired doesn't know what to do, isn't an issue we should spend our time on. If that's the point he should buy an XJ and post up....

[wiltj]

haha, dude that jeep is lookin sexy and jsut might have restored my faith in the XJ , it was never gone but jsut dimmed.
anway it had started out that i was working on the jeep my self the mechanic is a buddy of mine who was letting me use a lift in his shop for free, however once the parts went missing, and the time on my weekend ran out i was distressed and had to get back to work, so i left it with him to finish. so its like a learning experince for all, and im still looking forward to it all.

[little red cheroke]

i had a few problems with rustys also. i ordered an adjustable track bar and when i got it in the mail it had the wrong bushing on the frame end. had to send that back and wait 2 days for the TRE to come in. the i found out the threads were f***ed up and called and spoke to some guy (not rusty) and he said i should just go buy a thread chaser and fix it myself....wtf? i went all around town and nobody had a chaser that big. so i finally shipped it back (at my expence) and was just going to get store credit. but rusty said he wouldnt take it back for credit because i had obviously installed it(which i hadnt i couldnt get it down to the right size) and had put atleast 10K miles on it. WTF i only had it for a week thats stupid to say even if i got it installed. just my .02

[wiltj]

ok so heres the latest update, all the parts that i have are on, however two problems remain.
first the front swaybar is missing its end drops so that it can be connected back to the frame this is something i might need,

second the front driveshaft is compresse fully and has no play whatsoever left for the suspension to drop, if it were to drop the driveshaft would buckle or the transfer case would be dammaged, anyone run into this problem also? i pics of the driveshaft would be good so i could compare it to mine, i need to call rustys tomrow and ask about all this also,,

ps. what ammout of time did you all take to put theese lifts on your cars? im looking to know what an resonable ammmount of time would have been for this lift.
thanks -wilt

[wiltj]

ok well the lift is done. phew. and aside from really REALLY stiff rear springs im totaly in love with the thing, its like when i go over speed bumps i can get upwads of 6 inches of air from the tires... is this normal?

i also need an alignment badly as when i drive straight my steering wheel is upsideown,

but whatever, here are the sexy pics.

before
http://www.wiltj.com/lift/100_3007a.jpg

after
http://www.wiltj.com/lift/100_3035a.jpg

or www.wiltj.com/lift

[beakie]

well until you get your alignment done you can fix the steering wheel yourself
on your draglink near the pitman arm you'll see the steering sleeve (looks like piece of metal wrapped around the drag link with a clamp on each end)
undo the nuts that tighten it down and turn it until the steering wheel is straight again. you'll want to have the wheels as straight as possible, so along a curb or in a parking lots with lines (thats what I did). Keep in mind the wheel turned counterclockwise to go upside down so you'll want to go clockwise to return it to normal. turn the steering sleeve once around, check wheel, and continue till back to normal. re-tighten nuts and your done.
hopefully someone will read this and correct any mistakes I may have made giving that advice. if its all good, great hope it helps.

[XJ_ranger]

Im a college student so money is rare for me and to waste 1500 of it would just suck, also what append to the love here?


if 1500 is steep........


get out of this sport now....



right now...


dont walk....


RUN!!!!!!!!

[wiltj]

well for a college student, any money is steep, i still look around town to find the cheapest place to wash my chlothes. im not gona dive complely into this, and im sure as i find a job in the world of real work ill have more to throw at my xj but for now im jsut chillin. dont hate, dont hate.

also any word on why the rear springs are soo hard?

[smithz]

Strange you had so many problems. A friend of mine and I installed Rusty's 4.5" full spring pack in a couple days. I had never done it before, he had lifted his dodge himself. The only problems we had were stuck bolts and broken bolts. The rear actually took way longer than the front because of that, which is backwards of course. We actually got the coils in without compressing them at all, just need to let the axle droop enough and they squeezed in by hand.

As for your problems with Rusty's, I'll say they do make mistakes in shipping. But never once has he failed to make it right at his expense. Rusty knows his shit, and you can nearly always get him on the phone to ask questions, but you need to know what you are talking about and ask the right questions. Sometimes it's a pain, but like I said he has always come through.

And his lifts work pretty damn well for the cost...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2133000-2133999/2133983_179_full.jpg

As for the rough ride... learn to love it or sell it now. I've heard that RE and other lifts are way stiffer than Rusty's too. My advice, don't drive so fast over speed bumps. :D

[ncjeepfreak]

the rustys kits are made from missmatched parts, i'v heard of a few people who have had problems with them, just try and make it work, thats all i can tell ya

[smithz]

the rustys kits are made from missmatched parts, i'v heard of a few people who have had problems with them, just try and make it work, thats all i can tell ya
Not sure where you got that from, but everything worked fine for me.

[Wa Woody]

First; the front swaybar is missing its end drops so that it can be connected back to the frame this is something i might need.

I installed Rusty's 4.5" lift by myself on my rig over 4 years ago and mine didn't come with the swaybar end drops either, some things never change. I install a set of JKS quick disconnects. I wanted to be able to utilize the articulation in the longer springs I had just installed. BTW, I spent over a week of evenings getting everything in the way I wanted. This was my first lift on a XJ and I wanted it safe for me and my family. Good Luck

JKS Quick Disconnects:
http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=QRDISC&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Swaybar_Disconnects

Woody

[Nine Mile]

I bought my XJ with all of rusty's components on it.

The very first thing I did was go through and replace them all with RE.

Rusty's stuff is just weak, clunky junk.

I kept the springs for now though...but they will go eventually too.

[Chero-King]

also any word on why the rear springs are soo hard?


Well they're brand new springs, they'll settle and break in after some time. Usually people put a bunch of heavy tools or something in the back to break them in quicker. Once they're broken in the height will lower a bit and you'll have a better ride.

[boise49ers]

So did the weak clunky junk actually break or is it from what people told you ? People used to tell me the same thing about Trailmaster, but I have yet to break a component of the lift and it has seen lots of rock. It has been about 8 years since I installed it.
I'm not doubting you , but if it is just hear say you are going by, I'd think twice about believing it. JMO !:sunshine:

[cal]

So did the weak clunky junk actually break or is it from what people told you ? People used to tell me the same thing about Trailmaster, but I have yet to break a component of the lift and it has seen lots of rock. It has been about 8 years since I installed it.
I'm not doubting you , but if it is just hear say you are going by, I'd think twice about believing it. JMO !:sunshine:

It goes beyond just hear say when the majority says it. Myself, I know two people personally that have nearly been killed when rusty's parts broke for no reason sending jeeps out of control.. the biggest culp. seems to be their trackbar, but I wont ride in a jeep that has any of their suspension parts at all.

Do it right the first time, you get what you pay for, and theres a reason rusty's stuff looks so cheap.

[Nine Mile]

So did the weak clunky junk actually break or is it from what people told you ? People used to tell me the same thing about Trailmaster, but I have yet to break a component of the lift and it has seen lots of rock. It has been about 8 years since I installed it.
I'm not doubting you , but if it is just hear say you are going by, I'd think twice about believing it. JMO !:sunshine:

I have built many different models of Jeeps and used his stuff before. I learned myself. Some of it broke, other stuff just had too much play waay too soon in its service life.

These components were SHOT. Nothing was broke yet but the entire axle was moving forward and back a few inches due to his junk arms and side to side due to his trackbar. I could not take the noise or the feeling of having the front end walking all over the place. Yes all bolts were tight. Lift only had a few thousand miles on it at most.

[bigblueandugly]

thats to bad you had a hard time with the guys on the phone, although they can seem to have issues with shipping (i ordered a trac bar and got an empty box with a whole in it...) they have always been unbelievably helpful and easy to talk too, dont give up on them and always be respectful!!!

[boise49ers]

I have built many different models of Jeeps and used his stuff before. I learned myself. Some of it broke, other stuff just had too much play waay too soon in its service life.

These components were SHOT. Nothing was broke yet but the entire axle was moving forward and back a few inches due to his junk arms and side to side due to his trackbar. I could not take the noise or the feeling of having the front end walking all over the place. Yes all bolts were tight. Lift only had a few thousand miles on it at most.
Man you would think if the stuff is that bad someone would of had that place shut down by now. The reason I put that responce in was the fact everyone bad mouthed Trailmaster for years then RE came out with basically the exact drop bracket set up. I just found that ironic as hell. Trailmaster does ride very firm, but I have very very good articulation because of it. The set up on this is Trailmaster 4" coils with 2" spacers Trailmaster drop brackets and Terra Flex adjustable LCAs. The lift is 8 years old and I have just added the Spacers and LCAs. No vibration,death wobble and I run w/out sway bars because the springs are so firm. It actually has very good road manner if you can by the stiff ass LTB swampers riding like bricks.
http://myweb.cableone.net/cherokeexj/Flexout.avi