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$500 for an oxygen sensor?

tink89

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Texas
I recently bought an 89 XJ, 4.0 Renix MPI engin that promply failed it's emissions. A freind of the family took it to his automotive tech school and has recently told me that IF it is nessary to replace the O2 sensor the part will be near $500. He explained that the Renix system use a "special" O2 sensor that was used in only a few jeeps and Toyotas and that explained the cost. IT is suposedly a nominaly "on" switch instead of an nominaly "off" one and operated at a difrent voltage than a "normal" O2 sensor.

Since I have caught the guy talking out of his ass about other automotive things I am suspicious of this situation. Has any one heard of this exotic O2 sensor or am I getting a hosed?

Thanks
Tink89
 
I have a 90 cherokee with the renix system and I have had to replace my O2 sensor twice since I have gotten it and it costs roughly $60 at autozone. He's full of it as you suspected.
 
Are you going to pay for his next kid to go to college to. My friend you are getting hosed. Hell you could buy the whole exhaust system for that price.
 
:shiver:You will get hosed if you pay $500 for a $75 O2 sensor.

Run as fast as you can!!!!!!!!
 
tweakado said:
Are you going to pay for his next kid to go to college to. My friend you are getting hosed. Hell you could buy the whole exhaust system for that price.

Now that you mention it I have seen whole jeeps sold here for that much. GAD:shiver:
 
lol........a friend huh??? i'd kick his ass, and then give him $70 to buy and install the damn sensor otherwise you'll continue the ass kicking. lol

hell for $500 you can put a decent lift on your jeep, or buy a tnt front winch bumper, or get some new tires, headers, steering upgrade, rear bumper,.....damn...lol......i think that guy is using you to fund his own projects. LOL
 
tink89 said:
I recently bought an 89 XJ, 4.0 Renix MPI engin that promply failed it's emissions. A freind of the family took it to his automotive tech school and has recently told me that IF it is nessary to replace the O2 sensor the part will be near $500. He explained that the Renix system use a "special" O2 sensor that was used in only a few jeeps and Toyotas and that explained the cost. IT is suposedly a nominaly "on" switch instead of an nominaly "off" one and operated at a difrent voltage than a "normal" O2 sensor.

Since I have caught the guy talking out of his ass about other automotive things I am suspicious of this situation. Has any one heard of this exotic O2 sensor or am I getting a hosed?

Thanks
Tink89

The RENIX HEGO sensor is different (but he's wrong as to why.)

The typical "Titania" HEGO sensor used in most vehicles generates a variable voltage, between 0 and +1VDC, with +.5VDC being a "normal" reading, or "lambda = 1." Under .5VDC, as I recall, indicates a "lean" condition, and over .5VDC indicates a "rich" condition.

The "Zirconia" sensor used in RENIX (and limited other vehicles,) is a "variable resistance" which is fed a +5VDC "reference" voltage by the ECU. The Zirconia HEGO sensor then works as a voltage divider, and a return signal of +2.5VDC is "normal" - with lower voltages indicating "lean" and higher indicating "rich" (again, as I recall. I may have those voltage signals reversed, but the idea is still there.)

This is why you see a lot of posts by me telling people not to use "universal" HEGO sensors in their RENIX rigs - the universal is a Titania type, and is incompatible with the RENIX system. Since the Zirconia only costs a few bucks more, generally, why not just get one that works?

The only HEGO sensors I've seen run anywhere near $500 (and they're more like $300!) are the "Wideband" HEGO sensors used with AFR meters. The conventional HEGO sensor responds on a "knuckle" - you get a linear signal within a very narrow range of AFR (say, 14.0:1 to 15.5:1) and then it's just a flat "rich" or "lean" beyond that. These are typically referred to as "narrowband" or "knuckle" HEGO sensors - I usually call them NHEGO (Narrowband Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen) when I'm talking about both of them.

Wideband (WHEGO) sensors will give a quantifiable response from, say, 5.0:1 to 25.5:1 AFR, and can therefore quantify just how "rich" or "lean" an engine is running. They're typically used as tuning tools.

Side note - you can change a HEGO sensor yourself on RENIX in about a half-hour - use a HEGO sensor socket if you have one, a 7/8" wrench if you don't. Pull with the engine still warm, it will be easier.

Get a replacement from Borg/Warner, ACDelco, or Bosch - I've had good luck with all three. Make sure there is never-seez on the threads - apply it if not present. Use a socket to reinstall, torque to 21 pound-feet.

Connect the electrics, and have a beer - you're done!
 
5-90 said:
The RENIX HEGO sensor is different (but he's wrong as to why.)

The typical "Titania" HEGO sensor used in most vehicles generates a variable voltage, between 0 and +1VDC, with +.5VDC being a "normal" reading, or "lambda = 1." Under .5VDC, as I recall, indicates a "lean" condition, and over .5VDC indicates a "rich" condition.

The "Zirconia" sensor used in RENIX (and limited other vehicles,) is a "variable resistance" which is fed a +5VDC "reference" voltage by the ECU. The Zirconia HEGO sensor then works as a voltage divider, and a return signal of +2.5VDC is "normal" - with lower voltages indicating "lean" and higher indicating "rich" (again, as I recall. I may have those voltage signals reversed, but the idea is still there.)

This is why you see a lot of posts by me telling people not to use "universal" HEGO sensors in their RENIX rigs - the universal is a Titania type, and is incompatible with the RENIX system. Since the Zirconia only costs a few bucks more, generally, why not just get one that works?

The only HEGO sensors I've seen run anywhere near $500 (and they're more like $300!) are the "Wideband" HEGO sensors used with AFR meters. The conventional HEGO sensor responds on a "knuckle" - you get a linear signal within a very narrow range of AFR (say, 14.0:1 to 15.5:1) and then it's just a flat "rich" or "lean" beyond that. These are typically referred to as "narrowband" or "knuckle" HEGO sensors - I usually call them NHEGO (Narrowband Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen) when I'm talking about both of them.

Wideband (WHEGO) sensors will give a quantifiable response from, say, 5.0:1 to 25.5:1 AFR, and can therefore quantify just how "rich" or "lean" an engine is running. They're typically used as tuning tools.

Side note - you can change a HEGO sensor yourself on RENIX in about a half-hour - use a HEGO sensor socket if you have one, a 7/8" wrench if you don't. Pull with the engine still warm, it will be easier.

Get a replacement from Borg/Warner, ACDelco, or Bosch - I've had good luck with all three. Make sure there is never-seez on the threads - apply it if not present. Use a socket to reinstall, torque to 21 pound-feet.

Connect the electrics, and have a beer - you're done!

But would a "wideband" HEGO sensor be nessary ....or even have any real advantage?
 
tink89 said:
But would a "wideband" HEGO sensor be nessary ....or even have any real advantage?

A WHEGO is not necessary, won't work with pretty much any OEM engine controller, and is usually installed as a standalone tuning tool.

The WHEGO is still a "titania" type sensor that generates a voltage, which will not work with RENIX.

Using a WHEGO to replace a Titania "knuckle" sensor would probably also throw codes on OBD - simply because the ECU will end up getting signals it will not understand.

Go to a parts house and buy a HEGO for your application. ACDelco, Bosch, and Borg-Warner should all run around $75, or a bit less, and be readily available for you.

5-90
 
" This is why you see a lot of posts by me telling people not to use "universal" HEGO sensors in their RENIX rigs - the universal is a Titania type, and is incompatible with the RENIX system. Since the Zirconia only costs a few bucks more, generally, why not just get one that works?"

5-90,

Now you have me wondering which one Autozone sold me 12 months ago, before I got smarter! Is there an easy way to tell them apart once they are installed?
 
A "universal" sensor usually has loose wiring, you cut the OEM connection off and splice it onto the new sensor. If you have the proper plug, you probably have the application-specific part, so you should be alright.

Besides, if you replace the Zirconia with a "universal" Titania, the damn thing just won't work - and whatever problem you had before might get worse, or your fuel economy will just drop through the floor, since you'll be in constant "Open Loop" (which runs a touch rich anyhow - it's for warming up the engine.)
 
5-90 said:
A "universal" sensor usually has loose wiring, you cut the OEM connection off and splice it onto the new sensor. If you have the proper plug, you probably have the application-specific part, so you should be alright.

Besides, if you replace the Zirconia with a "universal" Titania, the damn thing just won't work - and whatever problem you had before might get worse, or your fuel economy will just drop through the floor, since you'll be in constant "Open Loop" (which runs a touch rich anyhow - it's for warming up the engine.)

Thanks 5-90, I was getting worried there for a second, but now that I think about it I would not have gotten 18 mpg (versus 10 mpg) highway miles since I replaced it if it was the wrong one. Mine had the right matching fitting.
 
5-90 said:
The RENIX HEGO sensor is different (but he's wrong as to why.)

The typical "Titania" HEGO sensor used in most vehicles generates a variable voltage, between 0 and +1VDC, with +.5VDC being a "normal" reading, or "lambda = 1." Under .5VDC, as I recall, indicates a "lean" condition, and over .5VDC indicates a "rich" condition.

The "Zirconia" sensor used in RENIX (and limited other vehicles,) is a "variable resistance" which is fed a +5VDC "reference" voltage by the ECU. The Zirconia HEGO sensor then works as a voltage divider, and a return signal of +2.5VDC is "normal" - with lower voltages indicating "lean" and higher indicating "rich" (again, as I recall. I may have those voltage signals reversed, but the idea is still there.)

This is why you see a lot of posts by me telling people not to use "universal" HEGO sensors in their RENIX rigs - the universal is a Titania type, and is incompatible with the RENIX system. Since the Zirconia only costs a few bucks more, generally, why not just get one that works?
all good except you got the Titania and Zirconia part backwards. The Zirconia are the common voltage generating ones, and the Titania is the less common variable resistance one that the Renix uses ( and you got the lean/rich voltages backwards)
 
OLAK said:
all good except you got the Titania and Zirconia part backwards. The Zirconia are the common voltage generating ones, and the Titania is the less common variable resistance one that the Renix uses ( and you got the lean/rich voltages backwards)

Thanks. I thought I'd gotten the voltages reversed, but didn't know I got the types reversed as well. I was working without notes on that one...
 
Speed_racer said:
youre still the man, 5-90

Agreed!!!

I often cannot believe his depth of knowledge, or his willingness to share it all in a post. Most of us would be OK saying Fawk that, go to AZ with $60 and get one.

5-90 is a great resource to this place.

Not trying to sackride, just stating a fact.

:yelclap:
 
Wow you guys amaze me all the time the vast wealth of knowlege that is here. My FSM does not tell me which one i have but maybe you guys can. I have a 2.5L 1986 vintage TBI my oxy sensor does not have a plug setup the wires were cut and crimped in. Would this effect the idle if it is the wrong one. Not tryin to steal the thread just tryin to get the info i need.
Thanks John
 
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