View Full Version : So... Last Night Sucked A$$
oo7ravisXJ
July 6th, 2006, 14:28
Here's the story: I hang out with the 4x4 kids at school, and we usally chill with the tuner car guys also. The tuner guys often talked about "back roadin" and it sounded like a ton of fun and stuff. So last night roll's around and i get a call askin if i want to go, and of corse i do. So meet up with these guys, some of my closest friends, and leave for the oakland hills roads. I ended up riden with my friend in his mustang, the other members of the group were a brand new S2000, a 3000gt, and a hell of nice Imprezza. Anyway, so were havin a good drive, everything is going fine and we decide to hit a few more roads. Of corse the mustang cant keep up with the other cars, but were still going pretty fast. Thats when we turn the corner and see my friend 3000gt upside down in the middle of the road with the S2000 behind it still fine. The driver of the 3000gt was fine, but his car was f**ked. At first we didnt see the 4th car, the imprezza. Then we look over the edge of the road (a frickin cliff) and we can see the imprezza's head lights, about 40ft. down the cliff hung up on a tree. We rush to the side of the road and were relived to find out that he was alright. So i slide down to help him out and we all got back on the road, i dont no how, but with no injuries. I used to want a sports car, but am glad i went with the jeep instead. Moral of the story, dont speed your car, especialy along a road like that. And im sure my friends wont be "backroading" again for a long long time.
red91
July 6th, 2006, 14:30
last night didn't suck A$$...it sorted out your intelligent friends from your really dumbass, stupid friends.
I'll also hazard a guess that someone(s) mommy, and daddy are going to be really pissed off.
Kittrell
July 6th, 2006, 14:38
last night didn't suck A$$...it sorted out your intelligent friends from your really dumbass, stupid friends.
I'll also hazard a guess that someone(s) mommy, and daddy are going to be really pissed off.
What he said. Since you are 17, I will venture to guess that you are all in high school. Mommy and Daddy paid for all of these nice rides and are gonna be livid because their kids are complete XXXXtards.
oo7ravisXJ
July 6th, 2006, 14:40
I'll also hazard a guess that someone(s) mommy, and daddy are going to be really pissed off.
That is true, None of those guys besides the mustang owner actually paid for those cars. I think that only if you are paying for your own car, will you have the respect that a car like that deserves.
red91
July 6th, 2006, 14:43
That is true, None of those guys besides the mustang owner actually paid for those cars. I think that only if you are paying for your own car, will you have the respect that a car like that deserves.
I got another $10.00 on the table says that one of them who wiped out, will miraculously get mommy or daddy to buy them another car.
Kittrell
July 6th, 2006, 14:45
I got another $10.00 on the table says that one of them who wiped out, will miraculously get mommy or daddy to buy them another car.
I'd go in on that.
oo7ravisXJ
July 6th, 2006, 14:45
I got another $10.00 on the table says that one of them who wiped out, will miraculously get mommy or daddy to buy them another car.
I hope not, hopefully they will have to pay for their next cars
red91
July 6th, 2006, 14:51
I hope not, hopefully they will have to pay for their next cars
well...an impreza, which I'll assume was the WRX model wasen't cheap, and even a 3000GT, while it won't bring anywhere near book value, wasen't cheap either.
Those are the kinds of cars mom and dad buy to placate their children, and get them out of the house.
What mom and dad don't realize is that if junior would have bought his own car, he wouldn't have as much money for pot, from the stoner group, which I guarentee the "tuner kids" all know.
I will give you this...you seem to be the most intelligent of the bunch.
I'd ditch the other idiots fast, because sure as $hit they will take you down with them.
planefixer
July 6th, 2006, 15:16
Darwin needs to correct his aim.
CanMan
July 6th, 2006, 15:25
Stoopid fawktards shouldn't be dicking off, street racing like dumbasses, in public roads. Thats how people get killed. And Rustangs suck, must of been a shitty V6. Hope you all learned your lessons. Which, I doubt you did.:looser:
XgeekstarX
July 6th, 2006, 15:28
a lesson lived is a lesson learned... hopefully
imma honky
July 6th, 2006, 15:30
well...an impreza, which I'll assume was the WRX model wasen't cheap, and even a 3000GT, while it won't bring anywhere near book value, wasen't cheap either.
Those are the kinds of cars mom and dad buy to placate their children, and get them out of the house.
What mom and dad don't realize is that if junior would have bought his own car, he wouldn't have as much money for pot, from the stoner group, which I guarentee the "tuner kids" all know.
I will give you this...you seem to be the most intelligent of the bunch.
I'd ditch the other idiots fast, because sure as $hit they will take you down with them.
Hey! Don't put stoners into the same group as those guys. Most people I know who smoke are actually very smart AND active in the community.....
IXNAYXJ
July 6th, 2006, 15:45
Moral of the story, dont speed your car, especialy along a road like that.Or at least take the time to learn how to drive properly.
Driver's Ed does not count!
www.bondurant.com
www.proformanceraceschool.com
www.skipbarber.com
www.jimrussellusa.com
www.racingschool.com
-----Matt-----
red91
July 6th, 2006, 15:58
Hey! Don't put stoners into the same group as those guys. Most people I know who smoke are actually very smart AND active in the community.....
Go back and read there skippy...i said the "tuner kids" knew WHO they were.
They make good customers too I imagine.
I'm glad your active...most sit around watching TV all day...:D
0313
July 6th, 2006, 16:02
Pictures?
imma honky
July 6th, 2006, 16:06
Go back and read there skippy...i said the "tuner kids" knew WHO they were.
They make good customers too I imagine.
I'm glad your active...most sit around watching TV all day...:D
HAHA....
I re-read it and gotcha.
The people who sit around and watch tv would do that even if they weren't on reefus. me, I like to :repair: .
oo7ravisXJ
July 6th, 2006, 16:08
Pictures?
nobody had a camera, but maybe the CHP have some i get some how.
LafaMJ
July 6th, 2006, 16:33
where exactly was this?
Geepfreak
July 6th, 2006, 16:36
where exactly was this?
San Andreas, Near PS2.
:D
oo7ravisXJ
July 6th, 2006, 16:59
where exactly was this?
on redwood, i think its in the Concord/Oakland hills.
DDCxj
July 6th, 2006, 18:42
x1,000 on ditching the idiots.
I went to school with a "tuner kid" that totaled 3 cars and after every crash his parents bought him a new one. All my friands who actually paid for their stuff have a lot more respect for it and are a lot more aware of everything around them.
I was working on the ambulance last night (EMT), and when I was at the hospital after bringing a patient forma structure fire, two other crews that I work with came in with car crash victims from two different incidents, both of which involved high speed or fooling around. One was a car that rear ended another and they ended up directly on top of eachother with the Jaws of Life needed on both. The other was reported as a head on collision, the first engine on scene reported that they actually had a multiple car rollover and needed the Jaws once again.
As far as I know, nobody had life threatening injuries but they are lucky and so is every other jackass that screws around with other peoples lives driving around like an idiot.
I've seen a lot of other people that haven't been so lucky and have had to tow some of my friends cars (tow truck driver for second job) that have suffered some bad injuries in bad crashes that could have been avoided.
Chances are that id you're going out with a bunch of kids are that are out for the sole purpose of driving around, nothing good will come from it whether it be a ticket, a minor crash, or god forbid, a fatality.
jpars
July 6th, 2006, 19:21
I just graduated from high school this past year, and this is textbook. I don't know the dynamics of your high school, but mine had TONS of kids with parental-bought cars. I can honestly say i only know one, maybe two other kids who bought their own cars. I worked shitty jobs for 2 years paying for much of my own spending money, and managed to save up 2500 in a car fund. My parents then gave me $750 for my 17th birthday, and i bought the Jeep for 3250 with 112k miles.
My car has more personality and meant more to me then any kid with an infinitely nicer car at school, just because of what it represents.
I think buying my own car and loving it through high school, learning to wrench on it myself, and now continuing to appreciate it towards college was probably one of the most important things I did up until now. I also credit this site, which i have been reading for the past year and a half, truthfully, with inspiring me to embrace self-maintenence and pride in ownership.
This reminds me of a few kids i know.. one who proceeded to hit a wall sideways in an SL500, now, year and a half later, drives a 2004 Land Cruiser.
Another, and this is perhaps the biggest crime ever, wraps an older volvo around a telephone pole. Oh, and he was piss drunk with friends in the car. Only resaon they walked away is because well, it was a volvo. He currently drives a late 90s 4runner probably bought for over 10k. Got away with no DUI, dont ask me how, i dont know. Expensive lawyers are good.
Just be thankful your ok
Jeepsterboy101
July 6th, 2006, 19:23
ha I love how you guys stereo type all of the kids who crashed. Gotta love it.
ECKSJAY
July 6th, 2006, 19:31
Or at least take the time to learn how to drive properly.
Driver's Ed does not count!
www.bondurant.com
www.proformanceraceschool.com
www.skipbarber.com
www.jimrussellusa.com
www.racingschool.com
-----Matt-----
No school is a substitute for good old-fashioned common sense though, I don't care who you are.
Ramsey
July 6th, 2006, 19:34
No school is a substitute for good old-fashioned common sense though, I don't care who you are.
and that just cant be taught. I'm lucky to have survived driving when I was 16. Age definetly needs to be higher.
XJ_ranger
July 6th, 2006, 19:56
and that just cant be taught. I'm lucky to have survived driving when I was 16. Age definetly needs to be higher.
in that case we need to lower it...
and get rid of kids like you at a younger age :D
Ramsey
July 6th, 2006, 20:34
the man has been trying but God has saved my butt quite a few times.
dmillion
July 7th, 2006, 08:26
Moral of the story, dont speed your car, especialy along a road like that.
No, I'm afraid you've missed the moral here. The moral of this story is, don't be a dumb-ass. Driving fast (or doing stupid things while 4-wheeling) to try to prove that you're a "man," or to try to impress your friends is an excellent way to be a gigantic dumb-ass.
And please don't try to tell me that your friends weren't trying to impress anybody, or prove anything, but were just doing it because it's fun, or some such nonsense as that. When you grow up some (sorry if that sounds harsh, but the fact is that you and your friends very obviously have a lot of growing up to do) you will realize what was going on and what dumb-asses you and they were being.
The main point, though, is that you can be just as much of a dumb-ass when you're out 4-wheeling. And you can kill yourself just as easily.
(In case you're wondering, I was a dumb-ass myself when I was your age. Luckily I grew out of it without killing myself or anyone else. I had friends who weren't that lucky.)
IslanderOffRoad
July 7th, 2006, 08:37
Not that I condone anyone's behavior....
but everyone did stupid stuff in High School. They'll grow out of it.
RichP
July 7th, 2006, 08:42
We've had over a dozen funerals this past 18 months, kids my kids and I knew. One accident took 3 out of 4 in one car, driver survived, it would have been kinder to put a bullet into his head, one of the killed was his brother, they hit a tree and a pole at 100+.
I wish I had a way to disable some of these cars with asshat drivers and I firmly believe that new drivers should have mandatory parental control governors in addition to cinderella laws.
IXNAYXJ
July 7th, 2006, 10:41
No school is a substitute for good old-fashioned common sense though, I don't care who you are.Imagine having both!
A lot of those schools don't just teach how to drive fast, but also things like how to avoid an accident. It could be argued that the accident in question occured the second the cars were started, but I would say that there's no reason for an AWD car to slide off the road as was described. He probably got slightly out of line and jumped on the brakes...something a good high-performance driving school drills into your head to never do.
But yes, common sense is a good thing.
-----Matt-----
red91
July 7th, 2006, 11:29
ha I love how you guys stereo type all of the kids who crashed. Gotta love it.
NO that is a false assumtion.
There is no stereotyping necessary...stupidity, like many other things, draws it in and unto itself like a magnet.
And another irony is a 20 year old, calling himself "boy".
At least when your 13 and Jewish they expect you to understand what it means to be a man, and to try hard to live up to those expectations.
To bad more parents don't "EXPECT" more out of their kids. This touchy, feeley crap doesn't do them a damn bit of good.
buzzbombxj
July 7th, 2006, 12:22
on redwood, i think its in the Concord/Oakland hills.
when i read the first post and saw you were in san ramon i thought "i bet it was on redwood road". we are lucky to live right by crow canyon, cull canyon, redwood road and old crow canyon. was it on that hairpin turn that he slid off? that turn must be a full 180.
Jeepsterboy101
July 7th, 2006, 17:33
NO that is a false assumtion.
There is no stereotyping necessary...stupidity, like many other things, draws it in and unto itself like a magnet.
And another irony is a 20 year old, calling himself "boy".
At least when your 13 and Jewish they expect you to understand what it means to be a man, and to try hard to live up to those expectations.
To bad more parents don't "EXPECT" more out of their kids. This touchy, feeley crap doesn't do them a damn bit of good.
Have had this name since I was 15 when I bought my first XJ. Maybe, just for you I'll change it if it makes you feel better. Maybe I'll do it on my 21st birthday.
Parents? What are those? Not everyone has parents who buy them everything in the world. But yea.
XJ Jeepin Girl
July 7th, 2006, 18:03
That is true, None of those guys besides the mustang owner actually paid for those cars. I think that only if you are paying for your own car, will you have the respect that a car like that deserves.
You should be my best friend. :kissyou: Haha.. I totally agree with you on that and most 17 year olds don't think that way at all.
Sucks about your friends though. There's been a lot of car accidents at my high school, mostly from inexperienced drivers driving really stupidly (and not to mention fast) just like that. My friend was involved in one and her pelvis was shattered and she had a broken leg. Her friend in the accident died... Just be glad they're okay and hope they learn from the experience. :)
What he said. Since you are 17, I will venture to guess that you are all in high school. Mommy and Daddy paid for all of these nice rides and are gonna be livid because their kids are complete XXXXtards.
Lol... this reminds me of a lot of our conversations, DJ. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
Matthew Currie
July 7th, 2006, 19:45
Have had this name since I was 15 when I bought my first XJ. Maybe, just for you I'll change it if it makes you feel better. Maybe I'll do it on my 21st birthday.
Parents? What are those? Not everyone has parents who buy them everything in the world. But yea.
I don't think there was much stereotyping in this particular thread. After all, the original post told the story, and described the stupid behavior and the circumstances pretty graphically. The only kid in the group who apparently paid for his own car was the one driving the Mustang, which, perhaps not entirely coincidentally, did not crash. And of course his passenger, who was wise enough not to bring a knife to a gunfight or a Jeep to a road race, but not quite wise enough (yet) to steer clear of a group of high school kids in fast cars showing off.
Jeepsterboy101
July 7th, 2006, 19:48
I don't think there was much stereotyping in this particular thread. After all, the original post told the story, and described the stupid behavior and the circumstances pretty graphically. The only kid in the group who apparently paid for his own car was the one driving the Mustang, which, perhaps not entirely coincidentally, did not crash. And of course his passenger, who was wise enough not to bring a knife to a gunfight or a Jeep to a road race, but not quite wise enough (yet) to steer clear of a group of high school kids in fast cars showing off.
Ehhh.....just everytime a kid crashes a car everyone assumes their parents bought it and are going to buy them another one. And sadly its 95% of the time true.
I am just upset that he crashed the Subaru honestly. He better get a STi out of it.
ECKSJAY
July 7th, 2006, 19:50
I am just upset that he crashed the Subaru honestly. He better get a STi out of it.
Yeah, that'll learn him!
Jeepsterboy101
July 7th, 2006, 20:02
Yeah, that'll learn him!
But the STi has such better traction! :read:
ECKSJAY
July 7th, 2006, 20:16
But the STi has such better traction! :read:
You can't fix stupid, however.
Jeepsterboy101
July 7th, 2006, 20:25
You can't fix stupid, however.
He swerved cause there was a rabbit in the road. Not cause he was being irresponsible and stupid.
ECKSJAY
July 7th, 2006, 20:30
He swerved cause there was a rabbit in the road. Not cause he was being irresponsible and stupid.
He reacted inappropriately. Sorry wabbit, it's me or you.
drifto77
July 8th, 2006, 01:04
He reacted inappropriately. Sorry wabbit, it's me or you.
X 2
nickangus
July 8th, 2006, 02:18
this sounds like one of my friends here in lafayette, ca near walnut creek
he rolled his 97' land rover discovery and then his parents got him a 93' bmw 325is, crashed that they paied to fix it 6k later it was all back together
then very quikly after fixing it he crashed it again, they called it totaled and then his parents got him another land rover,
its really bullshit
i watched this same deal play out many times w/ aother kids at my school
kid gets a 06' evo gets his parents to drop 20k into it in aftermarket parts then goes and totals it
earning a ride is the only way to go, paied 2k for my rig and put another 2k into it and i love it
-nick
RichP
July 8th, 2006, 05:47
He swerved cause there was a rabbit in the road. Not cause he was being irresponsible and stupid.
Wabbit in woad = hossenfeffer, same for squirrels, cats, dogs, chipmunks, groundhogs, skunks [but I'll try my hardest to not make them pop], possums, deer, bears, stupid kid on atv w/no lights at nite, now a horse, cow, bull or moose I'd probably pick a tree and hope the airbags deploy...but I'd be pissed...
redrider
July 8th, 2006, 07:15
every now and then you gotta crash. its what makes you better driver. push the limits and skill yourself. wear a seatbelt and dont kill yourself.
ladywolf
July 8th, 2006, 08:04
when i was in high school i drove a 1990 chevy lumina euro that my older brother had already put thru a barb wire fence, but i took care of it cuz it was paid for and that was the only rig my folks would get me.
now i have 2 jeeps and a brand new subaru...and i sure as hell aint gonna do nothin stupid to em. the XJ has parts waiting for me, and the subaru needs a good detail job and total lubes before she goes back on the road for any long distance.
i know the value of having my own rig and i sure as hell aint gonna do nothin stupid to wreck em.
all i can say is that i'm glad the guys are ok and no one got hurt.
i just wish mommy and daddy would beat their asses black and blue now and give em a cross country pedal bike to ride to school.
btw.....i will never swerve to hit an animal....its easier to prove to the insurance guy when theres blood and guts on your rig as to why its wrecked rather than just a wrecked rig and they think you were drinkin and drivin or just fell asleep
DrMoab
July 8th, 2006, 08:13
He swerved cause there was a rabbit in the road. Not cause he was being irresponsible and stupid.
Wanna see what happens when you swerve to miss animals?
http://images1.snapfish.com/34755%3A6%3C8%7Ffp342%3Enu%3D3233%3E6%3C8%3E656%3E 23246%3C8747852ot1lsi
If you swerve to miss an animal...you are stupid.
rockjock
July 8th, 2006, 08:25
I learned my lesson the hard way. My parents went to chicago for the day, I stayed home. They left the keys to their 1985 cutlass supreme. The v8 rear wheel drive kind. Me and a buddy took the car out for some country road driving. I was 14 at the time. Well one thing lead to another and We thought we were the duke boys. Slid the car around a nice flat corner and right into a telephone pole. took the pole right in the drivers side door. No one was hurt until dad came home and saw his car. Turns out that when I was old enough they gave me that car to drive back and forth to school fenders still smash alittle. I loved that car. Thats what I started wheeling IN.
Gil BullyKatz
July 8th, 2006, 10:12
Reading the title...
I thought this thread was about felching!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felching
Still pretty gay behavior nonetheless.
LafaMJ
July 8th, 2006, 10:15
on redwood, i think its in the Concord/Oakland hills.
What fire department responded?
IXNAYXJ
July 8th, 2006, 10:16
Reading the title...
I thought this thread was about felching!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felching
Still pretty gay behavior nonetheless.That's wrong...so very wrong.
-----Matt-----
oo7ravisXJ
July 8th, 2006, 12:44
when i read the first post and saw you were in san ramon i thought "i bet it was on redwood road". we are lucky to live right by crow canyon, cull canyon, redwood road and old crow canyon. was it on that hairpin turn that he slid off? that turn must be a full 180.
No, it was before that, they were just going to fast for a slight turn
oo7ravisXJ
July 8th, 2006, 12:48
What fire department responded?
No fire department responded, just 3 cop cars and 3 tow trucks.
Off Topic:I saw that your training to be a firefighter, I'm also dead set on becoming a Firefighter/Paramedic as well once i get out of high school. What college are you going to right now?
LafaMJ
July 8th, 2006, 16:17
No fire department responded, just 3 cop cars and 3 tow trucks.
Off Topic:I saw that your training to be a firefighter, I'm also dead set on becoming a Firefighter/Paramedic as well once i get out of high school. What college are you going to right now?
Right now im heading off to Chico state..... ill PM you.....
Matthew Currie
July 9th, 2006, 07:53
Ehhh.....just everytime a kid crashes a car everyone assumes their parents bought it and are going to buy them another one. And sadly its 95% of the time true.
I am just upset that he crashed the Subaru honestly. He better get a STi out of it.
If it's true 95% of the time, it's not much of stereotype. Mind you, having your parents give you a car is not always bad. My parents gave me a nice, slow, good-handling rusty beater when I was young, and basically told me "when you go somewhere, you be the driver."
Well, anyway, let's hope 7ravis learned a little something.
Starscream
July 9th, 2006, 08:29
Reading the title...
I thought this thread was about felching!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felching
Still pretty gay behavior nonetheless.
Oh... wow. I learn something new every day.
streetpirate
July 10th, 2006, 08:26
every now and then you gotta crash. its what makes you better driver. push the limits and skill yourself. wear a seatbelt and dont kill yourself.
X2
my xj is my first car, and yes, my dad bought it for me. i didnt like it when i first got it, didnt respect it either because hey, it was free. first time i wrecked it was about 5 months after i got my jeep and my licence. driving too fast in the snow and ice,bliped the gas and got squirley into a tree. all body damage, $700 worth or so. (got it done half price and just in primer) second time was another 6 months after that, too fast around a corner, first rain in two months and the road was slick. THAT ONE required a new fender, wheel, tire, d30 and all control arms, tranny lines.
by this point i have the upmost respect for my ride, ive had it completely apart save for the engine (soon bwahahaha!) and rebuilt and upgraded as much as i could. im going to regret the day i have to put it to pasture, because im attached to it enough where i dont think i could sell it.
jeepinxj01
July 10th, 2006, 10:37
Reading the title...
I thought this thread was about felching!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felching
Still pretty gay behavior nonetheless.
I knew better than to click that link, but damn it I did. I wish I hadn't. Thanks for that. :puke:
GSequoia
July 10th, 2006, 16:41
If you swerve to miss an animal...you are stupid.
Don't always have the chance to identify before swerving. I swerve all the time however every time it's always been in a situation where I know I can handle the swerve and there are no vehicles in the direction I'm swerving (I tend to be a very attentive driver to those around me).
Still though, we've all had the "oh shit something is there!" moment where you take action before identifying the threat.
Matthew Currie
July 10th, 2006, 18:54
Years ago, before I had heard that there was such a thing as "felching," I was driving with my kids through central Vermont to visit the American Precision Museum (presses and milling machines and lathes, oh my!) when we passed through Felchville, VT. Everybody cracked up, trying to imagine definitions for the verb "felch." None of us, I guarantee, came up with the current one, but we had a lot of PG rated fun.
There really is a Felchville, Vermont!
I wonder if its sister city is the one that cracked us all up when I was a kid, "Athol, Matthachutthettth."
Starscream
July 10th, 2006, 19:11
(presses and milling machines and lathes, oh my!)
:roflmao: Sorry, for some reason that made me laugh pretty hard.
red91
July 11th, 2006, 12:09
That's wrong...so very wrong.
-----Matt-----
It's Gil.
You must be new here.
Go to the back row and observe.
carry on...
dmillion
July 11th, 2006, 14:56
every now and then you gotta crash. its what makes you better driver. push the limits and skill yourself. wear a seatbelt and dont kill yourself.
I hope you're joking. Otherwise this is just about the stupidest statement that I've ever seen.
dmillion
July 11th, 2006, 15:02
...it's always been in a situation where I know I can handle the swerve
When you're not going way too fast for the conditions it's a lot easier to swerve and not end up 40 ft. down a ravine. The fundamental problem with the original story, obviously, was that they guys were all driving too fast for the conditions and for their own skill levels (although it's usually impossible to tell a teenage boy that there is ANYTHING that is beyond his skill level!).
Darky
July 11th, 2006, 15:27
But the STi has such better traction! :read:
He wants an AWD wagon? Buy him an AMC Eagle...
Cameano
July 11th, 2006, 20:31
Reading the title...
I thought this thread was about felching!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felching
Still pretty gay behavior nonetheless.
Couldn't wait for the thread to load, could ya. :D
bjoehandley
July 12th, 2006, 12:24
Glad I haven't clicked on the fleching link yet, wish I'd been that smart with the meatspinner clip on MOPARCHAT though..........................:shiver: :WTF:
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