Bad news for cleghorn pilot rock fans [Archive] - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

Gerr

January 14th, 2007, 14:12

OK guys I went to the US Forestry Department Volenteer training yesterday and have some bad news for those of us who like running pilot rock and cleghorn...... all of the off shoot fun stuff (not part of the fire road stuff) is subject to a minumum fine of $75 per person and if you get caught 2 times the same day you will have your rig impounded. this goes for jeeps motorcycles quads everything but horses and hikers. Also this weekend through monday 5pm they will be having patrols in that area.

nascar97

January 14th, 2007, 19:22

Well that sucks why is that dont tell me that some plant is in danger. So all the fun stuff is game to get a ticket on.:gonnablow

Gerr

January 14th, 2007, 19:47

my understanding is that its about errosion and protecting native plants and habitat. It applies to any where in the national forest system of trails. if it doesnt have a route number (IE 3n16 2n14 etc)it is off limits. all tha un intended trails are not marked and you can be issued a ticket

JohnX

January 14th, 2007, 19:52

Bunch of effin bullcrap. Getting real sick of not getting to run any local trails without fear of penalties :mad:

mattyj

January 14th, 2007, 20:19

Gerr

January 14th, 2007, 20:19

Ya I feel your pain man think of how I felt sitting ther finding this crud out in a room full of people who had already known

Gerr

January 14th, 2007, 20:20

So is this a new law? or something that has been around for a while & gets brought up at forestry dept. training days??

just wondering, thanks.

Its a old rule just getting revisited and they are planning much more enforcment due to budget cutbacks and needing to conform with national standards

Monkey55

January 16th, 2007, 16:39

Gerr

January 16th, 2007, 17:26

nope all the cross trails are not legal trails and are not marked

mattyj

January 16th, 2007, 19:10

so how are they planing to make people aware that they can now no longer drive on these trails? Seems difficult to enforce.

Gerr

January 16th, 2007, 19:14

actually its been a work in progress. basicly the plan is random enforcment by rangers acompanied by chp at times and volenteer groups issueing warnings whe rangers and chp are not on trail

Monkey55

January 16th, 2007, 19:28

Well that sucks even more.. I love Cleghorn....

:cry:

Elias

mattyj

January 16th, 2007, 19:45

It just doesnt really make sense. Its not like we are breaking new trail, we are simply driving on an existing trail...... i think the off shoots are beyond any kind of flora repair. Well, i cant imagine the state or city spending funds to replace plants that were destroyed long ago when th first vehicle broke trail. So whats the big deal....... just give the off shoots its own trail number & save the hassle and expense involved in stopping people useing it!

Goatman

January 16th, 2007, 21:20

It's not an old law that is now being enforced. It is a (not so) suttle change in policy from "open unless posted closed" to "closed unless posted open".

It evidently goes along with the new trail inventory policy and the only routes that are open are the ones that have been inventoried and are listed on the map. I don't think they can enforce it unless they have a map of route designations somewhere that is easily available.

If you got stopped and threatened with a ticket, you could try to nicely ask where there is a notice of the information needed to know what routes are open, and where is a map that designates the open routes.

Gerr

January 20th, 2007, 10:53

Well that SUCKS!!!

I never look at the signs when I run Cleghorn... I just point and go..

Does anyone know if the trail that zig-zags the Cleghorn fire road is marked??

If it's not, I don't see how they can keep people off of it..

Elias
Eh-lee-us
Prime examples were posted in another post of why they dont want us on those offshoot(not intended) trails.

here is the vids that were posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FooMZfEkpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SZXNBSJ9Ko

Sory to say these are from some of our members recently

I hate to say it but being responsible while wheeling will preserve our rights to do so. Im guilty of wheeling in areas I now know I wasnt suposed to and Im guilty of not treading lightly on some trails and I am guilty of being a asshat too so I hope no one feels im picking on them or being a asshat Im just trying to share what Ive learned. :patriot:

Gerr

January 20th, 2007, 11:21

trying to get a pdf file of the newest trail map for sanbernadino forest to share

JohnX

January 20th, 2007, 16:16

Prime examples were posted in another post of why they dont want us on those offshoot(not intended) trails.

here is the vids that were posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FooMZfEkpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SZXNBSJ9Ko

Sory to say these are from some of our members recently

I hate to say it but being responsible while wheeling will preserve our rights to do so. Im guilty of wheeling in areas I now know I wasnt suposed to and Im guilty of not treading lightly on some trails and I am guilty of being a asshat too so I hope no one feels im picking on them or being a asshat Im just trying to share what Ive learned. :patriot:
I don't see the problem. As far as i'm concerned if it has been driven over before, and has no brush on it, then it IS a trail. I myself have driven down that spot in the videos, and I will again. Treading lightly is another matter. Digging holes in the snow does make it harder for the next guy, but if I'm the next guy I like it that way. Making a hard section of trail harder does not seem to be an issue for most people, especially when there is a bypass.

Monkey55

January 20th, 2007, 18:59

Prime examples were posted in another post of why they dont want us on those offshoot(not intended) trails.

here is the vids that were posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FooMZfEkpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SZXNBSJ9Ko

Sory to say these are from some of our members recently

I hate to say it but being responsible while wheeling will preserve our rights to do so. Im guilty of wheeling in areas I now know I wasnt suposed to and Im guilty of not treading lightly on some trails and I am guilty of being a asshat too so I hope no one feels im picking on them or being a asshat Im just trying to share what Ive learned. :patriot:
I don't think that the videos are "Prime examples". That's actually a trail. It's called Pucker Hill. I was there when SlimsXJ did it last time.. He didn't do anything to it. It was already carved.

Everytime I've been out there, wheelers in the group stay on the trail. Guys will even pick up debri that were left behind from other vehicles.

But, I'm sure that there are other wheelers who just don't care..

Elias

IMORTL

January 20th, 2007, 19:04

Prime examples were posted in another post of why they dont want us on those offshoot(not intended) trails.

here is the vids that were posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FooMZfEkpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SZXNBSJ9Ko

Sory to say these are from some of our members recently

I hate to say it but being responsible while wheeling will preserve our rights to do so. Im guilty of wheeling in areas I now know I wasnt suposed to and Im guilty of not treading lightly on some trails and I am guilty of being a asshat too so I hope no one feels im picking on them or being a asshat Im just trying to share what Ive learned. :patriot:

can you explain to me why these are Prime examples of why the off-shoots are bieng closed? All I see are a couple of videos of a guy trying to climb a hill... there are no trail posted signs... and there are much biggger holes higher up on that hill... those who cant make it... cant make it... those who can have more fun... I also have a few vids of Cleghorn...

Video of me shot by JohnX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezjT6x22Dak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xflOlJVMGt4

and we dont look like a bunch of people tearing up the place... it the signs are posted, I wont run it... if not... my story is, we've been running these trails for years and never heard anything about only staying on the main road, but I will be sure to stay off them now Mr. Ranger Sir... Prehapse all this trash I picked up from the trails I was on will help?

SlimsXJ

January 20th, 2007, 19:10

When I tried the trail with snow on it all I did was clean the snow off, kind of hard to tear it up when the ground is frozen!! Hey Ken your my idol for making the pucker climb look so easy! DAVID

Gerr

January 20th, 2007, 19:19

IMORTL

January 20th, 2007, 19:57

Ok guys seeing im being flamed back channel on this subject ill just shut my mouth and let things be the way its gona be. Ive ran the trails there too and pucker hill is not a numbered trail there for not legally driven on, thats the point I was trying to make. XXXX me for trying to save everyone from a possible fine.

Sorry for the people flaming you in private... it was not my intent to cause probs... you are not the one who made the rules or enforces them, you only heard what "the man" planned to do in the area and were letting us know... thanks for the heads up... BTW... get wicked in the private flames... getting personal usully gets them to shut up...

Be safe...

Ken

IMORTL

January 20th, 2007, 20:00

Hey Ken your my idol for making the pucker climb look so easy! DAVID

Dont Idolize me... all I did was sit there... Jeep Did all the work... It does have a few followers though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9IGnwSShrY

JohnX

January 20th, 2007, 21:25

I wasn't pointing fingers at you Dan, just saying I don't agree with the rule, and I won't follow it. When I see the Rangers, I will be polite, then when he is done writing the ticket, I'll tell him to fawk his wife now and then and maybe he won't be such a prick.

Again...Thanks for pointing out the rule, but its still a stupid rule.

TOny J R

January 24th, 2007, 21:17

trying to get a pdf file of the newest trail map for sanbernadino forest to share

Here is a page on the program in place.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/projects/ohv_map.shtml

They are downloadable. Not sure what is open/closed. I am planning on going to the Forest Office in the near furure to see where the program stands.

I know the fires of 03 and the rains therafter locked a lot of open gates, but it would be good to know what is off limits.

Tony (karstic's brother)

karstic

January 24th, 2007, 22:07

Andy Steiner

January 24th, 2007, 23:42

I don't see the problem. As far as I'm concerned if it has been driven over before, and has no brush on it, then it IS a trail.

I hate to break this to you, but just because some area has tire threads on it from a previous doofus, doesn't make it a trail. The Forest Service, the BLM, The NPS, the Bureau of Land Reclamation all currently have accurate GPS tracks of the trails each manage. Just because somebody decides to cut across a new obstacle or new hill or new rock does not automatically make that a new part of the trail.

When I was a member of the Waywegos, that club's Adopt-A-Trail was John Bull. We would perform trail maintenance at least once a year. That included repairing washouts and blocking off the go-arounds and blocking off new paths created. The SoCal Chapter of NAXJA performs a similar function on our own Adopt-A-Trail.

How you behave when you recreate alone reflects only upon you. How you behave when you recreate as part of a group reflects on the entire group. Behave like that while you're on trail ride that's part of a permit, there's a high likelihood that a well tuned trail boss will stop the run, call a ranger and wait until they come haul your ass away and impound you vehicle.

karstic

February 13th, 2007, 09:25

Here's your opportunity for those who have something to say about the trails in the SBNF.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243398449#post243398449

JohnX

February 13th, 2007, 12:22

Great attitude, no wonder the off-road community is some as a bunch of pricks by the general public.
Yep, thats me? My attitude on the matter stems from receiving a ticket for driving on cleghorn a while back. Gate was open, "closed" sign was not visible, so I took a quick drive down the road. I had never been on it before and wanted to see what was back there. I was in a stock S10 and did nothing more than drive in, get a flat tire, and limp back to the gate (no spare). I got to the gate and found it was locked behind me...I was there less than 20 minutes. Bad timing. Anyway, flagged down a very helpful CHP, he radioed for the FS and they showed up to open the gate. I drove my truck through and parked to wait for a spare tire to arrive. Then the FS yo-yo comes over and writes me a ticket for being on a closed road. I explained to him it was open when I got there, then he straight out accused me of cutting the lock? I told him if I cut it to go in, I would have cut it to go out. He said it didn't matter and wrote me a ticket for $50. When he was ready to leave, I told him that ticket was gonna cost me $100...$50 for the fine and $50 for my new bolt cutters. I was pissed that because I played by the rules, flagged a cop, and got him to open the gate(which he had just put a new lock on less than ten miuntes ago)...I was getting a ticket? That was the first and last time I will be getting a ticket for being behind a closed gate.

Basically, I am pissed because even when I try to follow there rules...I got screwed.

Yes I know its a bad attitude...but it isn't right for them to close off all the trails and force us to drive long distances for a couple hours of wheeling.

Done ranting. :D

PS...I do basically agree with you in theory, but real life taught me theories are only good on paper.

JohnX

February 13th, 2007, 12:25

Here's your opportunity for those who have something to say about the trails in the SBNF.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243398449#post243398449

I have been to some of those open houses...they don't seem to care much about what I had to say, it was hard enough just finding someone who would bother to listen.

The problem with these open houses is that not enough Jeepers show up. The last one I went to had only one other Jeeper there...compared with about 2 dozen "greenies".

XJ_ranger

February 13th, 2007, 13:21

The problem with these open houses is that not enough Jeepers show up. The last one I went to had only one other Jeeper there...compared with about 2 dozen "greenies".

something there seems to be a problem...

karstic

February 13th, 2007, 13:34

I have been to some of those open houses...they don't seem to care much about what I had to say, it was hard enough just finding someone who would bother to listen.

The problem with these open houses is that not enough Jeepers show up. The last one I went to had only one other Jeeper there...compared with about 2 dozen "greenies".

So you gonna show up or roll over and play dead?

You don't have to go to the meetings to be heard.

The maps can be viewed online. A well composed letter can be sent to the program director for the OHV trail plan.

The reason we are getting our asses handed to us is because very few people in the off-roading community take the time to get involved. Too many people want to run the trails an get pissed when they get closed.

JohnX

February 14th, 2007, 07:43

So you gonna show up or roll over and play dead?

I can probably make this one if nothing else comes up. The rest are just too far away.
Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:00 - 9:00 pm
San Bernardino National Forest Supervisor's Office
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA.

You don't have to go to the meetings to be heard.

Yep...I think letters are a lot easier for most of us, but I just don't believe they are always read?

The maps can be viewed online. A well composed letter can be sent to the program director for the OHV trail plan.

Couldn't get there website to load the maps, I'll have to try back later.

The reason we are getting our asses handed to us is because very few people in the off-roading community take the time to get involved. Too many people want to run the trails an get pissed when they get closed.
AMEN! Show some support guys! Maybe we should make these meeting into Meet'n'Greets?

Gerr

February 14th, 2007, 09:27

I will be at the one in hesperia and I like the idea of doin a meet and greet type of thing for the meeting maybe dinner after or something

karstic

February 14th, 2007, 09:37

I can probably make this one if nothing else comes up. The rest are just too far away.
Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:00 - 9:00 pm
San Bernardino National Forest Supervisor's Office
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA.

Couldn't get there website to load the maps, I'll have to try back later.

AMEN! Show some support guys! Maybe we should make these meeting into Meet'n'Greets?

Here's the link to the map index. If you click on a pink square it should open a PDF file of that quadrangle with the proposed changes.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/projects/ohv_map.shtml

mikeyl

February 14th, 2007, 14:40

i agree that having a contingent of off roaders at the meetings helps. unfortunatly in the late 80's i was involved in mtn bike access rights (pre-imba) at the state park level . there were about 30 of us mtn bikers at an "public access meeting" at the stables/equestrian center off of carbon canyon. and maybe 6-8 equstrians. after we all had our say in a polite, concerned, and thoughtful manner (several of the horse riders would constantly try to interupt us) the district manager for state parks parks actualy told us "you all (mtn bikers) have some very valid and genuine claims, but the state has already made its decision to close most of the trails you use here at chino hills state park. the meetings were just being held so they could say there were public meetings. what i found out afterwards from one of the younger park guys was that ,in sacramento, it was decided that it would cost too much to do a impact report on each trail, it was easier and cheaper to just close them if possible. what made the issue hard was that as a group we were the ones doing a lot of the tail maintanance on a volunteer basis. a lot of what happens is driven by money. equestrains and sierra club have lots of money to throw at politicians. we need to keep up the fight to our public land!

JohnX

February 15th, 2007, 19:36

I can probably make this one if nothing else comes up. The rest are just too far away.
Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:00 - 9:00 pm
San Bernardino National Forest Supervisor's Office
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA.

Sitting here kicking myself. I just got home after 3+ hours on the freeway....cant force another hour for this. Hope someone else made it.