Non-Jeep FSM question...

[5-90]

Has anyone had to get FSMs for a Suzuki car? We just picked up a 2005 Verona (former dealer loaner, ~350 miles!) and I'd like to have one handy.

My wife loves the thing (it's hers anyhow,) and it gives me more time to get Jeep work done without worrying about how she's going to be getting about the next day - but I've always had FSMs for vehicles I've had to deal with, and I see no reason to stop now...

I'm sure I can manage to dig the thing up on my own, but there's no reason to reinvent the wheel, so I thought I'd ask here first...

5-90

[sw_mi_xj]

we just had a verona traded in at work , i did the used vehicle inspection on it .
seemed like a nice car , the little transverse inline 6 looked a little odd though.
oh , and sorry no fsm ( not a suzuki dealership )

[DrMoab]

My father just bought a FSM for his Sidekick. It seemed like they were about the same price as one for a jeep.

[warpigxj]

Verona is a mix of Suzuki, GM, and deawoo. they like to pop codes and when checked there is nothing there. also when checking the codes you might get one for the brake light switch fault but if you hit the brakes it goes out, Zuki has no idea why it does that. also that motor is big bucks, I work a zuki/mitsu dealer for 2 years. before i got layed off we got a motor that failed due to the cat breaking down and the "dust" getting sucked back in to the motor and damaging the cylinder walls. for the motor and the cats(2) the cost for the dealer was over 10K and they were on big time backoder. it was ordered in the begain of oct and they just got the motor in the middle of Dec.
I'm still talk to all the guys that work there so if you have question PM

[red91]

We just picked up a 2005 Verona (former dealer loaner, ~350 miles!) and I'd like to have one handy.

My wife loves the thing ...
5-90

Sorry to hear about your luck...

;)

There has always been something about suzuki bikes and cars that just don't do it for me.

[DrMoab]

There has always been something about suzuki bikes and cars that just don't do it for me.
Just cars? Or SUVs too. I used to make fun of my dad for buying that Sidekick until I helped him work on it a few times. Talk about a stout drivetrain! Puts Jeep to shame in so many ways.

[Rob Mayercik]

Maybe call the customer care number in the owner's manual and ask them? (assuming you got one)

[5-90]

Sorry to hear about your luck...

;)

There has always been something about suzuki bikes and cars that just don't do it for me.

Actually, I've gotten quite a few helpful backchannel responses - I'll just have to accumulate the ton-fifty or so to buy the thing (damn...)

I've handled quite a few Suzuki bikes and small-engine-powered goodies, and their cars aren't too badly built, either. I'm not a huge fan of the Samurai (too damn small to be useful, y'ask me...) but it's also rather well-built.

The transverse 2.5L I6 (kinda puny, too...) did look odd, but I do like the fact that it's driven by a timing chain, and not a belt. Belts are for accessories and for holding yer pants up - they don't belong inside an engine.

Anyhow, this is good because it saves me having to deal with things on Sunday night, and having to have the thing run Monday morning... Now, I can take the time to fix a number of things properly!

5-90

[GSequoia]

Sorry to hear about your luck...

;)

There has always been something about suzuki bikes and cars that just don't do it for me.

I still lust after a Bandit 1200S here. GSXR's dont' do it for me, I'm too tall (over 5'5" :D)

[motorcityxj]

Actually, I've gotten quite a few helpful backchannel responses - I'll just have to accumulate the ton-fifty or so to buy the thing (damn...)

I've handled quite a few Suzuki bikes and small-engine-powered goodies, and their cars aren't too badly built, either. I'm not a huge fan of the Samurai (too damn small to be useful, y'ask me...) but it's also rather well-built.

The transverse 2.5L I6 (kinda puny, too...) did look odd, but I do like the fact that it's driven by a timing chain, and not a belt. Belts are for accessories and for holding yer pants up - they don't belong inside an engine.

Anyhow, this is good because it saves me having to deal with things on Sunday night, and having to have the thing run Monday morning... Now, I can take the time to fix a number of things properly!

5-90

hmm really i thought all the small jap cars were belted. Thats very cool. Any idea why so many makers went to timing belts, was it purely cheapness to save a few bucks on steel? Especially with many of the 4 valve ohc jap engines being interference engines i dont understand the advantag, except maybe its "timed" to break on you after the warranty expires and bend your valves.

5-90 i get my service manuals from a guy on ebay he has them to everything.

Ill dig up an old receipt for one last year i ordered for a astro van. I think it was $32 bucks shiped.

[5-90]

hmm really i thought all the small jap cars were belted. Thats very cool. Any idea why so many makers went to timing belts, was it purely cheapness to save a few bucks on steel? Especially with many of the 4 valve ohc jap engines being interference engines i dont understand the advantag, except maybe its "timed" to break on you after the warranty expires and bend your valves.

5-90 i get my service manuals from a guy on ebay he has them to everything.

Ill dig up an old receipt for one last year i ordered for a astro van. I think it was $32 bucks shiped.


Hey, if you can save me a few bucks on the thing, I'll put you on my list of "people to be nice to someday..."

I don't know either - probably cost-cutting. Y'ask me, belts are for accessories and pants - not internal engine parts. They may also have done it for NVH reasons - but I don't fully understand NVH complaints. If you want something that doesn't make any noise while it's running, go buy a rock! Hell, I like being able to hear my engine at stoplights anyohw (nothing overpowering, just letting you know it's there...)

5-90

[motorcityxj]

Hey, if you can save me a few bucks on the thing, I'll put you on my list of "people to be nice to someday..."

I don't know either - probably cost-cutting. Y'ask me, belts are for accessories and pants - not internal engine parts. They may also have done it for NVH reasons - but I don't fully understand NVH complaints. If you want something that doesn't make any noise while it's running, go buy a rock! Hell, I like being able to hear my engine at stoplights anyohw (nothing overpowering, just letting you know it's there...)

5-90

it was last januaury $32 for the auction 7 bucks for shipping he had dozens of different makes and models up for auction , i pmd ya with his ebay seller name and his email.

[bajacalal]

hmm really i thought all the small jap cars were belted

Not all. The Toyota 22R, Nissan ka24de (240sx) have chains just off the top of my head. Some of the Asian chain driven OHC motors have issues where there are complicated tensioner parts that break. But yes the majority have belts.

Any idea why so many makers went to timing belts, was it purely cheapness to save a few bucks on steel?

NVH issues were/are a bigger concern than they used to be and belts tend to be quieter. With a pushrod motor a timing chain works and is cost effective because you just need a short chain and 2 sprockets. The Japanese moved to OHC and DOHC. If you run a chain on an OHC engine you have to engineer a way to get it up to the cylinder head and still have it oiled. Plus a longer chain is required which may require tensioners and for a DOHC motor possibly 2 chains, an extra sprocket and associated hardware to keep everything in place. I would actually rather have a belt on a DOHC motor.

So its much more cost effective and I think more reliable to have a timing belt on a DOHC engine. Plus a belt won't stretch (just break if its not changed) and can usually be replaced easier than a chain. I just wish manufacturers wouldn't make it so hard to change the belt.

maybe its "timed" to break on you after the warranty expires and bend your valves.

I think you have a good point there. Sadly I think many OEMs would rather have people think of cars as disposable. One other thing I do like about timing belts on interference engines- people are encouraged to do regular, scheduled maintenance. Even if they are not servicing the belt themselves, a mechanic goes through the car at scheduled periods. Any mechanical problems have a better chance of bieng discovered before a major breakdown occurs. Also, they punish the ignorant and the irresponsible. I know you can agree with that, 5-90.

[5-90]

Not all. The Toyota 22R, Nissan ka24de (240sx) have chains just off the top of my head. Some of the Asian chain driven OHC motors have issues where there are complicated tensioner parts that break. But yes the majority have belts.



NVH issues were/are a bigger concern than they used to be and belts tend to be quieter. With a pushrod motor a timing chain works and is cost effective because you just need a short chain and 2 sprockets. The Japanese moved to OHC and DOHC. If you run a chain on an OHC engine you have to engineer a way to get it up to the cylinder head and still have it oiled. Plus a longer chain is required which may require tensioners and for a DOHC motor possibly 2 chains, an extra sprocket and associated hardware to keep everything in place. I would actually rather have a belt on a DOHC motor.

So its much more cost effective and I think more reliable to have a timing belt on a DOHC engine. Plus a belt won't stretch (just break if its not changed) and can usually be replaced easier than a chain. I just wish manufacturers wouldn't make it so hard to change the belt.



I think you have a good point there. Sadly I think many OEMs would rather have people think of cars as disposable. One other thing I do like about timing belts on interference engines- people are encouraged to do regular, scheduled maintenance. Even if they are not servicing the belt themselves, a mechanic goes through the car at scheduled periods. Any mechanical problems have a better chance of bieng discovered before a major breakdown occurs. Also, they punish the ignorant and the irresponsible. I know you can agree with that, 5-90.

Especially that last bit - too many ignorant and irresponsible people out there with motor vehicles, y'ask me...

5-90

[Matthew Currie]

Maybe they've gotten better, but I seem to recall that the Mitsubishi chains used in the early Mopar vans were pretty notorious not only for breaking but for being prohibitively expensive to fix. I prefer chains too in principle, but a well-designed belt can be pretty good. There's a big difference, for example, between the belt on a Honda Civic (take half engine apart, including at least one mount, and then hire a midget to put it in) or a Colt Vista (same as above, but two belts, and a timing scheme that requires 8 rotations of the engine, and lining up three separate shafts with pins and notches) and, say, a Volvo 240 (Take off cover. Flip belt off. Flip belt on. Check the marks. Put cover back).

The problem with belts on interference engines is that often the service interval is not officially scheduled, and often the original owner doesn't keep the car long enough to see that it's done the first time. After that, nobody knows what's been done, so some people end up replacing a belt with 5K miles on it, while others end up with it snapping.