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Newbie topic; semi-advanced lift/tire question

rgunn1

NAXJA Forum User
Disclaimer: I am a nOOB... when it comes to XJs. I am, however, fully competent about 4x4 vehicles and the fundamentals of modifying them. I'm sure questions very similiar to the one's you are about to read have been presented here but, well... mine are special.

I usually hate these types of posts, but I'm considering purchasing an XJ for a decent DD / mild trail rig and I know NOTHING about XJs. I've been talking to a few people on another forum, but I'm hoping to get a little more input here. I mainly just want to see how your experiences might relate to my line of thinking in this matter.

I want to run the smallest amount of lift possible in an attempt to keep the vehicle as friendly as possible on the road and keep the COG down for on and off road purposes. I'm not sure if I want to run a 33 or a 35... it all depends on how much lift I'll need and how it'll affect the handling characteristics. I plan to do MAJOR cutting (not trimming) front and rear and. I was told there are issues with the fender wells/inner fenders out back, but that shouldn't be a problem that can't be taken care of with a little body work. Here's my dilemma:

5-6 inches of lift: I like the idea of running a long arm kit due to the better articulation and ride characteristics, I'm just thinking this will be too tall for my desire... though with this amount of lift, I'll have no problem clearing 33s or 35s.

4.5 inches of lift: This looks like the best comprimise from what I can tell so far. I know I can fit 33s and I'm pretty sure I can pull off 35s. The problem here is that there aren't any long arm kits (as far as I know) for this amount of lift, and from what I've been told, short arms will make the ride quality absolute crap due to the control arm angle. BUT, will the Rubicon Express long arms made for the 5.5 kit work with a 4.5 (or 3.5?) inch spring? I'm not sure how this system is designed. The issues that may come into play here are 1)Will the length of these long arms push the front end out to the point of causing steering interference with either the trac-bar or the drag link? and 2) if so, what might be the complications of moving the mounting point of the frame/unibody end of the control arms backwards to compensate for this? I have also been looking at the Rubicon Express control arm drop brackets. Would this be a better solution to the problem?

3-3.5 inches of lift: I like this option for several reasons. One being that I can keep the suspension geometry as close to factory as possible... not to mention it will be the cheapest option. This will keep the COG lowest. The complications that arise here only "seem" to involve fitting the tires. I'm almost absolutely sure I can fit the 33s with this amount of lift, but 35s may be difficult. With either tire size, up-travel will be significantly limited... possibly even to the point where the bumpstops get a workout even on the road. I have no problem with cutting back a little on off road articulation with a well designed bump-stop setup, but I will not tolerate any suspension contact under on-road driving conditions, with few if any exceptions.

I have several issues causing me to be indecisive regarding tire size which I'll be more than happy to discuss, but it's not really related to the questions I've presented here. In the past I've always designed /arranged my suspension setups to accommodate a particular tire size. This situation may just require me to run a 33 to fit my best lift option... I'm just really bad about wanting to go bigger.

Once again, sorry for the long post. I just want to figure out exactly what I'm getting into before I decide to take this little project on. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Robie

EDIT:I've been looking at some other threads (on this forum and others) and felt the need to clarify a few things:

1. While it might look "cool," flex is over-rated. Even if articulation IS your thing, it's not my main concern. Lockers will get you twice as far as long arms and squishy springs.

2. When I said "fender trimming," this is to the extent that I had in mind, with the exception that this will be a DD so I'll finish the edges off smoother, add a trim and, if I have to cut as far forward as he did, shave the reflector.

TXJ_2.jpg




:bigthumb
 
I run a 3 inch kit with spacers and oem control arms. the ride is fine and i could run 33s if I wanted to. I personally think long arm kits are over rated. Mine flexs more than any of my leaf spring buddies with my setup. The key is the sway bar. I have mine removed. As a daily driver these trucks are great. With mild lift you should be able to trail it and drive it to work. The only real worry is that some parts do not hold up to trail use as well as some other trucks I have owned. I have gone through one engine, two trannys, one transfer case and two diffs. And I really don't beat on mine too bad. I did however rolled it and drove it home two days later without any problems.
 
rockjock said:
I run a 3 inch kit with spacers and oem control arms. the ride is fine and i could run 33s if I wanted to. I personally think long arm kits are over rated. Mine flexs more than any of my leaf spring buddies with my setup. The key is the sway bar. I have mine removed.

Long arms really don't give you more articulation, especially compared to OEM arms w/rubber bushings or any sort of flex-jointed short arm. It has more to do with wheel recession, geometry (things like anti-dive, unloading, caster angle), and overall ride quality.

Going from short arm to longarm on mine with everything else staying constant (about 4.5" lift) shock extension was still by far my limiting factor for droop. I ran 33's on that setup as a DD for over a year (with stock upper arms and TeraFlex lowers) and could have definitely fit 35s easily:

trxus1.jpg


In the case of the original poster, I would shoot for somewhere around 4" or so, keep the short arms for a while, and see if it's worth the time/effort/money to upgrade for what you're using it for. I only upgraded mine because I built everything myself fairly cheaply and I wanted to experiment. It'll definitely "work" with the shorter arms and it'll give you a good opportunity to learn the vehicle and what changing all the components does for you.

Beware of stock hardware with those tires though. Fully locked I was blowing up front u-joints with 33s at the rate of every other wheelin trip. You can "make it last" but I'd rather go wheelin. With a C8.25 rear (late-96 or newer) you should be fairly good to go from the start.

While it might look "cool," flex is over-rated. Even if articulation IS your thing, it's not my main concern. Lockers will get you twice as far as long arms and squishy springs.

which is why I've got 39.5s on mine now with really not much more lift. :roll:
 
Last edited:
Drop brackets sound like the compromise you want. 4-4.5" lift with drop brackets will give you a very nice ride. With the right trimming 35's will fit nicely, although i would stay at 33's if you have stock axles. Bump stops will be minimal with 33's.

DB's will hang up on rocks with that low amount of lift and smaller tires. That is the only drawback. But the ride will be like stock.
 
Hey, I'm new to XJ's too, but had CJ's and even a Jeepster for years, running up and DOWN the Rubicon. I'm planning a build too of an XJ, very soon, and have many of the same ideas as rgunn1. I'm in touch with lots of crawlers, pre-runners, and Jeepspeed racers, and trying to boil it all down. Here's where I'm at:

RE 3.5" suspension system
32's with whatever trimming is needed, BFG 6-plys which are actually 31.8"
Bilstein 7100 with reservoirs and valving specifically for this XJ.
Lockers front and rear with probably 4.11's
Lightest winch I can find, and hitch mount it for front or rear use.
Lowrance or Garmin GPS, CB radio, maybe race radio.
Stock alloy wheels unless I run into 'issues'.

I'm learning most from this forum, although the Jeepspeed guys are super helpful too.
 
I'm still playing over these possibilities and I think the best way to approach this, will be to cut off as much metal as I can, and then decide from there if I can get away with the 3.5 inch kit and, if not go for the 4.5. I've never actually purchased a complete "kit," so this will be a new experience for me. I'm used to "mix and matching" the best components I can find from different kits, but with this I think I'm going to just go with the RE.

Thanks for the replies,
Robie
 
Looking at the RE kits again, it looks like I can go with the 3.5, and if it's not enough, add in an adjustable coil spacer (to allow for fine adjustments), upper control arms, a trac bar, rear shackles and I'd have the 4.5 inch lift. Everything else looks the same... lower control arms, bump stops, rear springs etc. The 4.5 kit comes with the t/c drop but that'll be SYE'd anyway...

So basically I can upgrade from the 3.5 to the 4.5 without "wasting" any parts... sound right?
 
rgunn1 said:
Disclaimer: I am a nOOB... when it comes to XJs. I am, however, fully competent about 4x4 vehicles and the fundamentals of modifying them. I'm sure questions very similiar to the one's you are about to read have been presented here but, well... mine are special.

I usually hate these types of posts, but I'm considering purchasing an XJ for a decent DD / mild trail rig and I know NOTHING about XJs. I've been talking to a few people on another forum, but I'm hoping to get a little more input here. I mainly just want to see how your experiences might relate to my line of thinking in this matter.

I want to run the smallest amount of lift possible in an attempt to keep the vehicle as friendly as possible on the road and keep the COG down for on and off road purposes. I'm not sure if I want to run a 33 or a 35... it all depends on how much lift I'll need and how it'll affect the handling characteristics. I plan to do MAJOR cutting (not trimming) front and rear and. I was told there are issues with the fender wells/inner fenders out back, but that shouldn't be a problem that can't be taken care of with a little body work. Here's my dilemma:

5-6 inches of lift: I like the idea of running a long arm kit due to the better articulation and ride characteristics, I'm just thinking this will be too tall for my desire... though with this amount of lift, I'll have no problem clearing 33s or 35s.

4.5 inches of lift: This looks like the best comprimise from what I can tell so far. I know I can fit 33s and I'm pretty sure I can pull off 35s. The problem here is that there aren't any long arm kits (as far as I know) for this amount of lift, and from what I've been told, short arms will make the ride quality absolute crap due to the control arm angle. BUT, will the Rubicon Express long arms made for the 5.5 kit work with a 4.5 (or 3.5?) inch spring? I'm not sure how this system is designed. The issues that may come into play here are 1)Will the length of these long arms push the front end out to the point of causing steering interference with either the trac-bar or the drag link? and 2) if so, what might be the complications of moving the mounting point of the frame/unibody end of the control arms backwards to compensate for this? I have also been looking at the Rubicon Express control arm drop brackets. Would this be a better solution to the problem?

3-3.5 inches of lift: I like this option for several reasons. One being that I can keep the suspension geometry as close to factory as possible... not to mention it will be the cheapest option. This will keep the COG lowest. The complications that arise here only "seem" to involve fitting the tires. I'm almost absolutely sure I can fit the 33s with this amount of lift, but 35s may be difficult. With either tire size, up-travel will be significantly limited... possibly even to the point where the bumpstops get a workout even on the road. I have no problem with cutting back a little on off road articulation with a well designed bump-stop setup, but I will not tolerate any suspension contact under on-road driving conditions, with few if any exceptions.

I have several issues causing me to be indecisive regarding tire size which I'll be more than happy to discuss, but it's not really related to the questions I've presented here. In the past I've always designed /arranged my suspension setups to accommodate a particular tire size. This situation may just require me to run a 33 to fit my best lift option... I'm just really bad about wanting to go bigger.

Once again, sorry for the long post. I just want to figure out exactly what I'm getting into before I decide to take this little project on. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Robie

EDIT:I've been looking at some other threads (on this forum and others) and felt the need to clarify a few things:

1. While it might look "cool," flex is over-rated. Even if articulation IS your thing, it's not my main concern. Lockers will get you twice as far as long arms and squishy springs.

2. When I said "fender trimming," this is to the extent that I had in mind, with the exception that this will be a DD so I'll finish the edges off smoother, add a trim and, if I have to cut as far forward as he did, shave the reflector.

TXJ_2.jpg




:bigthumb

with this amount of trim 3 inches and 35's will be no problem, however this type of trim in the rear will require some fab work. This is mine with Rusty's 3 inch kit and 35's

PICT0075.jpg
 
Looking further, upgrading from the 3.5 to the 4.5 isn't cost effective at all. Just the cost of adding the UCAs raises the total investment higher than if you were to just purchase the 4.5 from the get go. It looks like that will be the way to go.
 
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