• NAXJA is having its 18th annual March Membership Drive!!!
    Everyone who joins or renews during March will be entered into a drawing!
    More Information - Join/Renew
  • Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

How to tell when tie rod ends, etc, are too far gone to grease?

DonkRado

NAXJA Forum User
I'm going to sound completely noobish here, but I just am not sure when they are 'too far gone'. I've never dealt with greasable joints before, so I'm not sure what to look for. I don't see any ripped dust boots, but there is plenty of play in the connections. I'm starting to hunt down a death wobble issue, and expect to need to change the ball joints. It would be great if some life (or grease) could be breathed back into some of the other steering components. I don't even own a grease gun as of now, and from my research it looks like I'll need one even to install new balljoints and plenty of other components. It shouldn't hurt to peel back the dust covers a bit, clean out any grime, and then regrease until I see some seeping back out, right? I also don't think that a lot of the castle nuts have been torqued even close to spec, so that will likely contribute to my DW. I just recently picked the XJ up and I'm working my way through all of the problems that I'm discovering.
Additionally, is there anything in particular that I need to look for or avoid when buying a grease gun? Thanks.
 
I was always told that when you can jiggle them and there is a lot of play, they're toast. I recently did mine, and let me tell you the upper and lowers are a PETA if you dont have the right cup press. The other ones went like cake though. good luck if thats what you choose to do. In the end i didnt end up spending much either.
 
The way we always checked tie rod ends or any other ball and socket joint back in the day was simple.

Grab a big channel lock pliers

Adjust it so you can have one jaw on top of the nut / stud , and one jaw on the flat bottom (don't put it on the zerk)

Then squeeze the pliers.

If you get any up and down movement at all it is bad and should be replaced soon.

If you get a lot of up and down movement it is ready to fail completely, best not to drive it because it will come apart. :repair:
 
Yeah.
After thinking about the additional wear and tear put on any new ball joints/tie rods ends when leaving any worn components in place, I decided to bite the bullet and do the full set.
So, I'm looking at:
2 Lower Ball Joints
2 Upper Ball Joints
3 Tie Rod Ends
1 Drag Link

The track bar seems to be nice and snug, so I'm hoping that I've somehow escaped that one. I already picked up a grease gun at NAPA (rated to 10K PSI) and some Lucas Red N' Tacky Grease:
Redntacky_cartridge.jpg

I'm going to rent the balljoint press from NAPA for the job, but I didn't see any special angled sleeves for the upper balljoint install. Don't I need one? I've read the MADXJ writeup on balljoints and a couple for tie rod ends. Any other special advice or tools I should get? Where can I find the angled sleeve that MADXJ mentions? The folks at NAPA didn't have any idea what I was talking about. Should that Lucas grease work for the job or would it be a bad idea for any reason? Thanks!
 
You can suit yourself of course, but I would not go to the trouble of replacing ball joints if they are not worn out. It's not uncommon for original ball joints to go over 200K miles if the vehicle hasn't had a lot of rough off-road use and has been regularly maintained. My 95 has no play at all at 261K, and the 99 is fine at 163K. My old 87 had one upper joint go somewhere in the 175K range, but the other three were fine.

I suggest that for ball joints you do the following test: Jack one wheel up by the axle tube or the pumpkin, just high enough to get a big lever (crowbar, 2x4 or whatever) under the tire. Now push the tire upward hard enough to take some pressure off the jack, and look for vertical movement. Clean the grease off the seal on the upper joint because that's often the best place to detect movement. No movement at all is permitted. You should also try yanking the top and bottom of the wheel back and forth, but usually the vertical movement will show up earlier than lateral play.

You can usually spot any unwanted movement in the steering linkages by having someone wiggle the wheel back and forth with the wheels on the ground, and observing each joint for lost motion. Again, any play at all is too much. Tie rod ends and drag links are much easier to do than ball joints.

Because fresh grease tends to cushion things a little, it's sometimes easier to spot a bad joint before you grease it.
 
OldFarts4X4 said:
The way we always checked tie rod ends or any other ball and socket joint back in the day was simple.

Grab a big channel lock pliers

Adjust it so you can have one jaw on top of the nut / stud , and one jaw on the flat bottom (don't put it on the zerk)

Then squeeze the pliers.

If you get any up and down movement at all it is bad and should be replaced soon.

If you get a lot of up and down movement it is ready to fail completely, best not to drive it because it will come apart. :repair:

I was probably taught a little differently - because tie rod ends are slightly springloaded, and my instructor had probably taken a few apart to see how they worked (that would be in keeping with the way my granddad thought...)

Use the pliers, as above, but you should see not more than 1/16" of movement upon compression. When you remove the compression, the joint should fully recover.

Then, you take the rod end and twist - it should move, but there should be some resistance (not so much you can't move twist it noticeably with one hand. Use your hands for this - the pliers should be back in your pocket.)

The first test makes sure there is operational clearance between the parts, the second makes sure there isn't too much clearance. You can grease either before or after these tests - it doesn't make any difference, based upon my experience.

I do quarterly inspections - with a detailed inspection once a year (replacing a quarterly.) This gets my linkage checked and greased once a quarter - and sooner, if I note something awry. Since my wife does a very good job of paying attention to her vehicle, I've found that it saves me hours of troublehsooting and working every year (gawd, did I ever get lucky!)

5-90
 
Yep. I won't have another dime to spend on it until Friday, so I'm going to spend some time Thursday doing the inspection/troubleshooting routine. I'll check out the balljoints with the old breaker bar under the wheel, and I'll put the channel locks to the tie rod ends. I've already tested the tie rods by twisting them, and they certainly do give some movement. I'm not sure where the line between acceptable and unacceptable is in the resistance department, but I suspect that the first test will give me a good idea how they are. Of course, if any of them check out within the acceptable limits of operation I'll probably leave that part for another time. I've still got to get money together for tires after all of this is fixed.
I know there is some looseness in the steering linkages as I'm getting a bit of loose grinding feeling when straightening out the wheels as I slow to a stop in a parking space. I've also noticed a single pop as I slowly turn on a slope. I am suspecting an undertorqued control arm bolt on that one. Of course, the first order of business on Thursday will be going through the entire front end and torqueing everything down to spec. Oh.. and I did have a bad u-joint (see: broken with a cap barely hanging on) in the drivers side wheel joint, replacing that fixed a lot of the popping that I was hearing/feeling.
Thanks for the help guys. I can't wait for exams to be over and to spend a long weekend under the Jeep.
 
Resistance to twisting in the tie rod ends should just be felt, not "experienced." If you ever have the chance to handle a new one, you'll get the idea - but if you don't feel any, it's shot (the spring has had it.)

If you're getting some grinding, I'd also check to make sure there isn't excessive play in the Pitman shaft - grab the Pitman arm with your big Channellocks, and try to turn it (in the normal direction - like you're steering.) It should not move perceptibly - if it does, and you've got grinding, you may be in line for a steering box (if it moves but doesn't grind in normal operation, it's probably just an adjusment wanted.)

Also, check your front track bar bolts for that "pop" - they may also be getting loose on you, and that's a fairly common noise source for the front end.

5-90
 
Back
Top