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Wiring house for a Hobart 180?

L

LynchMob

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Southern Alberta
I finally convinced the boss and am getting one for xmas. I'm looking for information on what would be involved in getting my house wired up for this; I don't need step-by-step details, just the basics.

I'd like to have a permanent outdoor receptical to plug into. I have a cement pad in the back yard; the breaker panel sits just inside of this wall. From what I can tell I have single phase, 100amp Federal panel. I have two open slots that are side by side and had been used to run a 50K BTU a/c unit. I'm thinking I can simply run into these.

Does this sound feasible or am I looking at major upgrades to the panel?

TIA

Darren
 
Single phase what?As long as youve got 208/220/230/240 and 2 adjacent slots your good to go.Just pick up a 50A 2pole breaker and some wire.
 
what is the operating inpout voltage on the hobart?
Size your breaker and wire one size up from the load.
I'd probably run 10 or possibly 8 guauge wire, with a ground, and the appropriately sized breaker.
 
My 175 recommends a 30 amp breaker with 10 ga wire, best to check with hobart for the particulars. Probably be able to download the manual and look in there for the requirements.
What happens when it rains? I like being able to plug mine in the garage.
 
It comes with a 50A cord for a reason,amperage/voltage drop.You need a minimum #8 copper on a 50A breaker for proper performance/safety.
25yrs IBEW/IAEI Electriacl Inspector
 
Thanks for the reply's...sounds good (easy and fairly inexpensive). Here are specs of Hobart's website for the 180:

Rated Output: 130A, 20VDC at 30% Duty Cycle on 60Hz
Current Range: 25-180 A
Max. Open Circuit Voltage: 30 V
Amps Input at Rated Load, 60Hz:
230 V = 20
KVA = 4.6
KW = 3.75


To answer a few questions...I won't be welding in the rain; I planned to simple use an outdoor/waterproof outlet box...they surely make these for 220, no? I've seen enough exterior boxes at Home Depot that something will work.

I'd like to be able to use it in my garage, but I need a garage first. Another year or two of me storing my toys in the boss's laundry room should move the garage build up on the priority list.
 
for a 20 amp load I'd run 10 gauge wire with a 30 amp breaker.
Of course this also depends on your future plans.
I'd really consider 8 ga wire and a 50 amp breaker, but it depends on your particular electrical panel and your service.
 
87manche said:
I'd really consider 8 ga wire and a 50 amp breaker, but it depends on your particular electrical panel and your service.
Click to expand...

What about my panel or service would prevent this? Mine is a 100 amp Federal panel...there is room for two breakers, side by side. Is there anything else I need to check into?
 
From what I've seen, Code calls for exterior outlets to be GFI-protected . You may want to check into this for Alberta/local.
 
Lou said:
From what I've seen, Code calls for exterior outlets to be GFI-protected . You may want to check into this for Alberta/local.
Click to expand...
Thats only for 15 and 20 amp receptacles.
 
87manche said:
for a 20 amp load I'd run 10 gauge wire with a 30 amp breaker.
Click to expand...
Thats a Code violation,so as long as you dont mind having your insurance company deny your claim after the fire....
 
87manche said:
why is this a code violation.
is a 10 gauge wire not rated for 30 amps?
Click to expand...
For obvious reasons,Code requires at "minimum" that the circuit feeding a "receptacle" shall be at least equivilant to the receptacle rating,example:
1-You can install a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit,but
2-you CANNOT install a 20A receptacle on a 15A cicuit
Try to plug a 20A cord into a 15A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Try to plug a 30A cord into a 20A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Try to plug a 50A cord into a 30A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Starting to see the picture?
Welders like all electrical products are required to be "Listed" or "Certified" by an NRTL(UL,CSA,ETL,etc).If the welder was "Designed/Listed" to be on a 20A cord it would have come with one.The manufacturer is already "complying" with code(and its "Listing Agency") by selling the product with the proper "cord configuration" it was intened for.
 
Last edited:
RCP Phx said:
For obvious reasons,Code requires at "minimum" that the circuit feeding a "receptacle" shall be at least equivilant to the receptacle rating,example:
1-You can install a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit,but
2-you CANNOT install a 20A receptacle on a 15A cicuit
Try to plug a 20A cord into a 15A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Try to plug a 30A cord into a 20A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Try to plug a 50A cord into a 30A receptacle,it wont fit,wanna guess why?
Starting to see the picture?
Welders like all electrical products are required to be "Listed" or "Certified" by an NRTL(UL,CSA,ETL,etc).If the welder was "Designed/Listed" to be on a 20A cord it would have come with one.The manufacturer is already "complying" with code(and its "Listing Agency") by selling the product with the proper "cord configuration" it was intened for.
Click to expand...

Where do you get that the cord is a "50 amp" cord?

The owner's manual for the Hobart 180 recommends a 30 amp breaker with minimum 14 ga wire with a maximum input conductor length of 67 feet.
I would use what the manufacturer recommends, not whatever number is etched into the receptacle. I would think that the number the receptacle has would be an "absolute maximum" for the amp size of the circuit you're applying it to.
 
RedHeapOjeep said:
Where do you get that the cord is a "50 amp" cord?

The owner's manual for the Hobart 180 recommends a 30 amp breaker with minimum 14 ga wire with a maximum input conductor length of 67 feet.
I would use what the manufacturer recommends, not whatever number is etched into the receptacle. I would think that the number the receptacle has would be an "absolute maximum" for the amp size of the circuit you're applying it to.
Click to expand...
precisely, hobart recommends a 30 amp breaker, so if the wire is sized larger than the breaker the breaker will trip before the wire catches fire.
I don't see the problem.
 
I don't either. I understand that ratings for plugs and receptacles are the maximum allowed, but not the mandatory usage rating.
I wouldn't put a 20 amp receptacle on a 50 amp circuit, but I can put a 50 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.
I would always build a circuit with wire larger than necessary, for obvious reasons, so if the guy runs 10 ga on a 30 amp circuit, there should be no issue.
 
Theres a reason for everything."Code" is the "Minimum" requirements for an electrical installation.Your not required to understand it,But you are required to comply with it!Heres 2 examples I see all the time!

1-house burns down,cause of fire is determined to be a 'Non-compliant" electrical installation.Insurance company denies your claim,so now you have no home or no equity.

2-your neighbor backs into your electric meter.Inspector comes out to get your power back on.Finds a "code violation",writes you a red tag and your power stays off until the corrections are made.

Where you going with this??
 
RCP Phx said:
Thats a Code violation,so as long as you dont mind having your insurance company deny your claim after the fire....
Click to expand...

I really hope you are just thinking backwards. He said for a 20 amp load he would use 10 guage and a 30 amp breaker. What is the code for 10 guage is AZ? 30 amps is ok here. He's running about 67% of max which is pretty decent.

For the record I run 6 ga. on a 30 amp breaker. I just have a habbit of overwiring for easier upgrades later and less voltage drop.

This site show's 10 ga is fine to 30 amps.
http://www.electrical-online.com/cableandwire.htm

Tell me you were smoking dope.
 
Lincoln said:
I really hope you are just thinking backwards. He said for a 20 amp load he would use 10 guage and a 30 amp breaker. What is the code for 10 guage is AZ? 30 amps is ok here. He's running about 67% of max which is pretty decent.

For the record I run 6 ga. on a 30 amp breaker. I just have a habbit of overwiring for easier upgrades later and less voltage drop.

This site show's 10 ga is fine to 30 amps.
http://www.electrical-online.com/cableandwire.htm

Tell me you were smoking dope.
Click to expand...
Its correct if your using a 30A receptacle and not a 50.
 
I don't understand where you're coming from.

Why would it be ok to use 10 ga wire on a 30 amp circuit, because the 10 ga is rated for a higher load than 30 amps, but it's not ok to use a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp circuit?

I don't need a lecture on the results of a bad electrical installation, just explain what you mean. Why is it wrong to use a receptacle rated at a maximum of 50 amps on a circuit rated at a maximum of 30 amps? The receptacle is not the limiter in the circuit, the breaker is.
 
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