heims for d30 crossover..

[gearwhine]

I'd like to go nice and strong for steering but thinking my first thoughts on this is a little too much. 1.5" .25 wall, weld in bungs, 3/4" with 5/8" bolt for heims.

I'm also thinking 1.25" .120 wall (can probabaly get for free, maybe even next step to sleeve it as well), with a 5/8" - 1/2" hole heim...is this too small a bolt for steering? Is 1/2" to small to drill the knuckles out to? Thanks, _nicko_

[Stoney]

thats pretty much what i am runnin! it works GREAT!! and the hemi's work fine! don't listens to these other guys who say they don't work!!

stoney

[gearwhine]

Which size set-up are you running?

I guess the one in the middle would be the .120 with a sleeved tie rod with a 5/8 bolt and 3/4" thread. seems good to me.....

[2xtreme]

I am useing QA1 rod ends PCMR10-12T and PCML10-12T. 5/8 - 3/4 .

Works great for me.
Michael

[Bender]

I think the general rule is that heims work fine in dry areas where rockcrawling is the main type of wheeling. If you do a lot of mudding or live somewhere with snow and salt then they might not last as long.

I've got a heim on my RE trackbar and it died after about 2 years. It has not been over two years and my second joint is still tight so maybe that's not to bad. Two joints in 70k miles.

[ChEwBaCcA]

I had heims on an RE trak bar and it was junk. Thye dont seem to last in a trak bar

BUT

I have heim steering from Inifinte Inc and it works great. I have have had mine on for over a year w/ about 22K on it and the heims are solid and make almost 0 noise, no slop, love it. I think they are selling that kit very soon.

regards
Chewy

[XJ-wheeler]

What I did with mine was a little different. I took 1.25" .250 wall and I drilled out the ends with a 13/16 bit. Then I got a right and left handed 7/8 tap and tapped the ends of the tube. All I did was eliminated the bungs. Works great and I have had no problems with the heims. Just make sure you get good quality heims.

Tyson

[vintagespeed]

If you use 1.25 x .281 wall you dont have to drill and you can tap for 3/4 heims. I'd use 3/4 x 3/4 heim with a 3/4 to 5/8 bolt misalignment spacer. You'll get more misalignment out of them.

[XJ-wheeler]

I used the 3/4 x 7/8 heims because I got them for free from a supplier I know. He couldn't get me the other size for free. That is why I went that way.

[KarmirXJ]

If your using heims for Daily driver, your taking a couple steps backwards;)

[Bender]

I can't help but notice everyone who is using heims is from California. How about someone from Canada, michigan, or someone who runs mud on the east coast?

[gearwhine]

Is it really that bad to use them in a daily driver? I plan on using greaseable ones. My brother got some, but I forget what brand they were, supposedly they are good quality, Ive got to look into that, but I like the greaseable part for steering, then I'll get those rubber boots, can't see how that's any worse than TRE's. I'm in NJ, but try to stay away from mud as much as possible, I never go in a mud hole for fun....so stupid :D

I'd like to stick with bungs so I don't have to buy taps, or pay someone to do it, it'll be cheaper this way. Thanks _nicko_

[xj92]

KarminXJ, why is it a step backward? I'm just wondering, because I'm thinking of doing this too. I thought it might actually make the steering feel better because it would get rid of the inverted y and give a slightly better angle on the drag link. I'm hoping to do something similar to what is shown on this site http://www.bulletproofsteering.com/steeringsystems.html

[vintagespeed]

Bungs are doubtfully as strong as threaded tubing. A bung is only as strong as the weld you lay to mount it to the rod and when you weld you weaken the material just outside the weld area. Not to mention you need a pretty serious welder to lay a nicely penetrated bead in heavy wall DOM tie-rod material. You also get more thread surface by tapping the tubing over what comes in a prefabbed bung. '2 cents.

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by vintagespeed
Bungs are doubtfully as strong as threaded tubing. A bung is only as strong as the weld you lay to mount it to the rod and when you weld you weaken the material just outside the weld area. Not to mention you need a pretty serious welder to lay a nicely penetrated bead in heavy wall DOM tie-rod material. You also get more thread surface by tapping the tubing over what comes in a prefabbed bung. '2 cents.

Not according to some of the various and sundry metal bytches who hang out here.

IIRC, cut threads are weaker than the rolled threads inside a bung. And it's not that difficult to get a good weld in DOM tubing.

ChiXJeff

[Bender]

Does anyone have any pics to one of these Heim joint "boots" that was mentioned earlier. That would solve much of the problem associated with grit getting in the joints and wearing them out.

Also, does Aurora or QA1 supply greaseable heims? I've only seen the non-greaseable version. Are the tolerances just as good on a greaseable unit? Since the non-greaseables have tolerances tight enough to keep 99% of all fine grit out I don't see how grease would actually flow around in there.

[gearwhine]

I forget who makes some of the little boots for them, I will search around soon. The tolerances on the greasable ones are definitely nowhere near as tight as the non greaseable qa1's and aurora. The QA1's I have around are hard to twist the ball with your hands, almost impossible when you first get them, while the greasables ones spin freely.

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff
Not according to some of the various and sundry metal bytches who hang out here.

IIRC, cut threads are weaker than the rolled threads inside a bung. And it's not that difficult to get a good weld in DOM tubing.

ChiXJeff

So you're saying that it's easier for the amateur builder to produce a quality weld (lol) than it is to cut threads? You recommend that the average hack with a 110v buzz box weld on .250 wall tubing? dude.... :rolleyes:

[Stoney]

well on my steering i am not using a stablizer and heim joints on my DAILY DRIVER and i have run off the road yet or broken down?? maybe i am jsut a good driver? o yea and no death wobble!!!!!!!!:D

stoney

[Flowers]

Originally posted by vintagespeed
So you're saying that it's easier for the amateur builder to produce a quality weld (lol) than it is to cut threads? You recommend that the average hack with a 110v buzz box weld on .250 wall tubing? dude.... :rolleyes:

Jeff didn't say anything about the average hack welding in his own bungs. What he said was "Cut threads are weaker than the rolled threads inside a bung. And it's not that difficult to get a good weld in DOM tubing." The "average hack" could take it to their local weld shop or over to their bud's house and have a bung welded in at minimal cost.

HTH,

Flowers

[Flowers]

Originally posted by vintagespeed
If you use 1.25 x .281 wall you dont have to drill and you can tap for 3/4 heims. I'd use 3/4 x 3/4 heim with a 3/4 to 5/8 bolt misalignment spacer. You'll get more misalignment out of them.

Drill out to a 3/4" on a D30? OUch!

Flowers

[Flowers]

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
If your using heims for Daily driver, your taking a couple steps backwards;)

Please explain!:confused:

[gearwhine]

Originally posted by Flowers
Drill out to a 3/4" on a D30? OUch!

Flowers

That's what I was wondering... 3/4" would probabaly take too much meat out of the knuckle, correct? So 5/8" woudl be teh better choice, plus they have about 12k more radial load strength than the 3/4".

[Flowers]

Gearwhine,

You speak the truth.

Flowers

[Bronco]

In theory rolled threads are stronger (external thread must also be stronger to get the benefit), but there is no reason to let that stop you. All you have to do is get a thread forming tap rather than a cutting tap. They are widely available and not really much more expensive. http://www.mcmaster.com/ part number 2534A18 for example. MHO is that the welded bung just adds one more failure mode, one more possible weak link, plus as was previously said you don’t get the thread depth (a bigger factor for thread strength than cut vers rolled).

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by Flowers
Drill out to a 3/4" on a D30? OUch!

Flowers

Knucklehead, I said 3/4 x 3/4 heim with a 3/4 x 5/8 bolt misalignment spacer. Thus you drill the steering arm to 5/8. Drilling any steering arm other than a Rockwell to 3/4 would be silly......jeez. :rolleyes:

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by Flowers
Jeff didn't say anything about the average hack welding in his own bungs. What he said was "Cut threads are weaker than the rolled threads inside a bung. And it's not that difficult to get a good weld in DOM tubing." The "average hack" could take it to their local weld shop or over to their bud's house and have a bung welded in at minimal cost.

HTH,

Flowers

What I was saying is that it IS NOT easy to weld heavy wall DOM correctly. I've been welding for 7 years and it's taken alot of time to learn how to sink a bead in correctly on heavy wall tubing. So yes, the 'average hack' should take it to someone that knows what they're doing. I try not to recommend people doing things that will kill themselves & their families if/when they do it wrong. Therefore, like I said, it's easier for 'Joe Mechanic' to tap some DOM for heims than to weld bungs or take it somewhere to have them welded.......sheesh tough crowd. :D

[ChEwBaCcA]

Chi X Jeff and I live in the rust belt and run the same set up , I've had no problem w/ the salt a crud.

Chewy

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by vintagespeed
What I was saying is that it IS NOT easy to weld heavy wall DOM correctly. I've been welding for 7 years and it's taken alot of time to learn how to sink a bead in correctly on heavy wall tubing. So yes, the 'average hack' should take it to someone that knows what they're doing. I try not to recommend people doing things that will kill themselves & their families if/when they do it wrong. Therefore, like I said, it's easier for 'Joe Mechanic' to tap some DOM for heims than to weld bungs or take it somewhere to have them welded.......sheesh tough crowd. :D

That's nice, I picked up a stick welder for the first time 25 years ago. Okay, so it's farm use, but don't toss something like a 7 year number out at me, I am NOT impressed. I'm finding that time in grade (regardless of skill) doesn't necessarily indicate competence.

You're probably right about penetration, though. I generally have the opposite problem, I tend to blast holes in stuff.

ChiXjeff

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff
......I picked up a stick welder for the first time 25 years ago..................I'm finding that time in grade (regardless of skill) doesn't necessarily indicate competence........................."
Um, isn't that what I was saying? I've seen plenty of old guys with old welders that lay nasty old booger welds, it doesn't matter how long ago you picked it up but what you're doing with it. :D