Diesel Engine Swap, Discuss...

[erikrs301]

So my 4.0L has 257K on it and will die someday. I have an AX-15 and NP231 also original. This is a trail rig, but may be driven a few hours to the trails. Questions...

- What all would be involved with swapping in a deisel engine?
- What engine would be best?
- Scrap or keep AX-15/NP231 combo?
- Is it worth it?
- Give some budget and unlimited budget options?

Please keep your, "just get a Stroker" or any other gasoline engine swap related comments out of this. I know just throwing in a new Jasper 4.0L would be much easier and cost effective. ;)

[dave]

my first concern would be the weight of the diesel .. i dont think the unibody psuedo frame would be able to handle it without a whole lot of reinforcement... xj's did come with a diesel at some point but from what i remember it was nothing spectacular and was quite small.. oh and just FYI .. the aw4 doesnt like to shift right with anything other than a motor that once came in front of it ( another 4.0l etc etc )

[CRASH]

I know in CA, from CARB smog perspective, it is right next to IMPOSSIBLE to do put a diesel engine in a gas chassis. The reverse is much easier, but not simple by any means. Don't know about your neck of the woods.

For off-road, diesels are not the best for the type of wheeling we do out here. You need quick throttle response, and a diesel is not good at that at all.

If you were set on one, the one to have would be the VM 4 or 5 cylinder diesels used in UK spec WJ's. From what I've heard, they are quite nice. They are made in Italy to DC specs.

They are, of course, not certified for U.S. over-the-road use, so it would have to be an OHV vehicle for the rest of it's life.

CRASH

[erikrs301]

What about the diesel engine that is going to be available for the KJ?

[rixXJphx]

Basic EPA regulations for an engine swap for a vehicle to be registered for on-highway use:
1. The engine must be complete with all its original US emissions systems.
2. The engine must be same age or newer than the chassis.
3. The engine must have been offered by the manufacturer for that MODEL of vehicle sometime during the vehicle's production run.

Even a new KJ diesel wouldn't qualify, since it was never offered in the XJ chassis.

So, you're screwed on getting a street-legal diesel (unless you go thru the enormous effort and cost of getting an EPA Certification).

[CRASH]

Yes, those are pretty much universal rules. Good post, RixXJphx

CRASH

[juicexj24]

Ya I would say go for it. The frame is going to have to reinforcement to it. I would look at a Turbo Diesel from a Dodge Ram in a juck yard. They are inline 6's. They might measure out to be the same length as the 4.0. Now with this engine would come custom motor mounts, rad. wiring harness. You could get the transmission out of the Dodge truck as well. Super beef. You might have to get a adaptor for the t-case, not sure. But if the only thing your going to use it for is trail use. I would look into it. But first thing is to get all the info needed for the swap from your local DMV. If they would allow a OHV to have a diesel and it can be done within the law. I say hit the bone yards and start figuring out what you need. Also a place to call would be Banks. They do diesel stuff. Juice

[Rev Den]

Interesting. What about a small Mitsu unit, out of a small box truck, or maybe a little 4 cyl Cat? You MAY be able to work around the emissions by classing it as "experimental" or change it to a "truck". Let us know what you do...I am excited for you.

Rev

[erikrs301]

I don't know if I'd actually do this. If my 4.0 lasts a couple more years and I have the CJ done, diesel may be an option. If the engine goes, everything is getting gutted, hacked, caged and re-done.

PA has a Special Construction title, it could probably be re-titled as one after all is said and done. Otherwise I guess I'd have to get a trailer for it.

[CRASH]

Ya I would say go for it. The frame is going to have to reinforcement to it. I would look at a Turbo Diesel from a Dodge Ram in a juck yard.

Have you ever actually seen or dealt with a 5.9 liter Cummins Turbo Diesel? They weigh about 950 pounds, dry. When I rebuilt the one in my brothers truck, it cleared the radiator mount and firewall by exactly 1/8". The engine is also VERY tall, owing to the deep skirt block.

They are a very good engine, bot to put one in an XJ, you would need about 14 inches of lift to clear the oil pan, and one helluva hood scoop to clear the intake manifold and valve covers.

CRASH

[erikrs301]

Originally posted by Rev Den
Interesting. What about a small Mitsu unit, out of a small box truck, or maybe a little 4 cyl Cat?

I'm thinking 4 cylinders is all it should need as long as it's a big enough 4 banger. 6 would be nice bu the weight would probably be killer.

[erikrs301]

Originally posted by CRASH
Have you ever actually seen or dealt with a 5.9 liter Cummins Turbo Diesel? They weigh about 950 pounds, dry. When I rebuilt the one in my brothers truck, it cleared the radiator mount and firewall by exactly 1/8". The engine is also VERY tall, owing to the deep skirt block.

That's why I'm thinking a 4cyl...although a custom 10" high cowl hood would be, uh, interesting to say the least :D

[CRASH]

Have you looked for an 84-85-86 XJ diesel? they are not horrible, but they are underpowered. It's easy to "massage" a diesel, though.

CRASH

[seanR]

Look in to a four cyl. Cummings. Case uses them in construction eq. skid loaders etc. I looked in to putting one of those into my 88 xj, but it was too much fab work, motor mounts tranny adpters and the like. A friend of mine put a TB6 industrial engine (the 6 cyl version) into a '79 F-250. He fabed all f the mounts and adapters himself took all winter, but it worked out very well. 45 mpg over the Divide in overdrive!

[HossHoffer]

I think that as someone suggested the mitsubishi truck might work well. I would steer clear of the VW diesels as they severely lack torque (I drove a diesel Rabbit for years). I know that the 4 cyl cummings are good but don't have any advice as to what tranny would make a good match. Good luck and show us the finished product!

[aueaglexj]

A Friend of mine talked about putting a diesel in his TJ just to make it one of a kind. He was looking into a 3 cylinder motor, the way he talked they make adaptors for tranny, etc. BUT that was a TJ, I'll ask where he got his info tomarrow, but I would think you would be able to find info doing a search on the net.

[CRASH]

The 3.9 liter, 4 cylinder cummeins is shorter than the 6 cyinder, and it would fit into the engine bay, lengthwise. However, they are just as tall as the 5.9.

They weigh ~625 pounds, dry, depending on accesories. They can be massaged to make 500 ft lbs of torque, so they would really scoot your cherokee around.

Last time I checked at a Cummins dealer, they were $6,200 for a re-manufactured unit, plus core.

They can be found in some UPS and Fed-Ex rigs, and also some E-350 Ford box vans from the 1980's.

CRASH

[yellowxj]

Dreaming you say.....always wanted a 2.3 ford turbo cause the 2.3 is super cheap and easy to build (friend of mine races ministocks and turns 8k every weekend makes est. 200hp, you wouldnt need anything that wild but stock with turbo makes ok power. What I really want to do is go full electric motor. Looks like it would cost up to $6-8 grand but that would be full torque as soon as you hit the throttle. Never add gas or oil and you could always hear your spotter.

[RINGKONG]

Originally posted by yellowxj
Dreaming you say.....always wanted a 2.3 ford turbo cause the 2.3 is super cheap and easy to build (friend of mine races ministocks and turns 8k every weekend makes est. 200hp, you wouldnt need anything that wild but stock with turbo makes ok power. What I really want to do is go full electric motor. Looks like it would cost up to $6-8 grand but that would be full torque as soon as you hit the throttle. Never add gas or oil and you could always hear your spotter.

I have one of those in my 79 mustang pace car(had it since I was a teenager) ... :D

it is a dog... I remember geting beat of the line by escorts... :D :D

but that could be because my number one piston skirt was laying in my oil pan.. drove like that for 30k miles :D.

I don't think that would be a good option for the XJ..

[andyr354]

suprised nobody has brought up mercedes. An old 5cyl mercedes might fit well.

[CRASH]

The Mercedes would work well, but adapting it to an AW4/AX15 might be a biatch.

If you used the Mercedes trans, you could go with a divorced NP-205 to solve the t-case issues.

CRASH "Where there is a will, there is a way"

[juicexj24]

Advance Adapt. Doesn't even make a one for the AW4. They don't recommend it behind anything. Juice

[dan f.]

too bad DC can't come up w/ a way to merge mercedes engines with jeep parts. there'd be a ton of ways to make a james bond jeep.

[Jerm S.]

I Vote for the B4 cummins. They have the same bellhousing pattern as the B6 (dodge diesel engine) so a NV4500 will bolt right up to it. However you do still have the hieght problem. But it would be worth it because those engine can make up too 300 HP and 500 Ft-lbs. I would like to see it done. keep us informed if you give it a go.

Jerm S.

[KarmirXJ]

since you guys talking about I6 diesels well F&*^ that might as well just skip it and go to the Ford POWER STROKE V8 it only weighs in at 1200 lb dry:D. Common try it its a good engine. with a little hacking im sure it will fit like a glove, and it will have like 10000 lbs of torque, and all the WOW factor.... isnt that what you need? then at the mall people will ask whats that 'clacking' under the hood, then youlll pop the hood and pimp your sh|t, then everybody will be like :eek:.

no flamers now:D

sooner or later some dipstick is going to recommend this. might as well get it out of the way.. and later some moron will even think of doing this:rolleyes:

point is.... you say your junk is not a Daily driver... so you dont need a deisel to get you high MPG. IF your anal about a different engine, stick a SBC, its the only way to go for for a unibody, IMHO, people that go with engine swaps in a unibody (XJ) have nothing better to do.

If I where you I build myself a nice budget stroker and enjoy life as it is.:)

[erikrs301]

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
If I where you I build myself a nice budget stroker and enjoy life as it is.:)

Probably what I'll end up doing someday, but for some reason a diesel has always been on my mind. Well I could always throw one in the CJ :D

[Drewlee77]

The new Benz CDI motors are supposedly fantastic. If you want to dream - aim for the 4 or 5 cylinder versions of this engine. It supposedly (I'm poor, I've never driven a Benz, much less a brand new one) has a good throttle response and are lighter. They put them in small cars, so they can't be too heavy. They also put them in big trucks and they still get great mileage. no idea on cost or availability though.... just a thought....

[KarmirXJ]

2 problems.... 1-its euro motor, not available in US...

2- $... thing is worth more than your rig...:rolleyes:

[TOZOVR]

http://www.nav-international.com.br/Motores_Menu.asp?Tipo=1&Idioma=2

take your pick...I'd suggest a nice 2.8 POWERSTROKE?

[2drezq]

Isuzu diesel & tranny out of a dead LUV, only problem is the LUV t-case is a passenger side unit...

[Fergie]

Isuzu diesel & tranny out of a dead LUV, only problem is the LUV t-case is a passenger side unit...
Damn, someone beat me to it. This option would get my vote. The engine bay for a Luv is small, so the engine would fit in the XJ. You could cobble together some Chevy parts and have it that way. Be careful though, it can get expensive. When we replaced the diesel in our Luv, the rebuild kit was more expensive than an engine. We ended up getting an engine from Japan, for super cheap...less than $500. The mechanic that installed it said he would pay us more for the engine alone than the whole truck, and couldnt beleive we found one. Great engine though. 27mpg everywhere, enough torque, and gear driven camshafts. GL in your ponderance.

Fergie

[2drezq]

Damn, someone beat me to it. This option would get my vote. The engine bay for a Luv is small, so the engine would fit in the XJ. You could cobble together some Chevy parts and have it that way. Be careful though, it can get expensive. When we replaced the diesel in our Luv, the rebuild kit was more expensive than an engine. We ended up getting an engine from Japan, for super cheap...less than $500. The mechanic that installed it said he would pay us more for the engine alone than the whole truck, and couldnt beleive we found one. Great engine though. 27mpg everywhere, enough torque, and gear driven camshafts. GL in your ponderance.

Fergie
Tell me more about getting the engine from Japan. I've got a 4wd diesel LUV, and an option on an XJ that has no powertrain except the axles.

[Fergie]

The engine was bought from an import/export salvage business in CA. The engine was from some wrecked vehicle in Japan that the salvage business had bought. I'd have to ask my father about it to get more info. Keep in mind too that we looked for close to 3 years to find an engine. I'll PM you later when I speak with my father.

Fergie

[HossHoffer]

Japanese engines by law have to be replaced or rebuilt every 30k miles. Removed engines are sold here in the US and imported under scrap metal tarriffs, that's why they are so cheap. I have swapped about 20 of them into various cars and they have been great. The import companies are all over in CA, just consult your yellow pages. They can look for a specific engine for you and usually give you a one year warranty.

[REDXJ4FUN]

No one has mentioned the nissan oil burner that cam in scouts and CJ-10s. they are similar in size to the 4.0 andmake decent power with very little work most of witch you will have to do just to put it in an XJ.

[Heep]

http://www.canev.com/Jeep.html

[2offroad]

Maybe you could find a engine out of one of the Sprinters both Dodge and Freightliner sell the MB van in the states now, it is a 5 cylinder inline.