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Ball Joint-related venting...

5-90

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Hammerspace
So I'm doing the ball joints & steering linkage on one of my 89's, and I just needed to get this out...

The first one (driver's side upper) came out fine - the stud did. The housing is STILL IN THE DAMN YOKE!

So, I'm stopping to eat, then I'm going to the hardware store to see about fleshing out this damn HF press kit (I know, I know - but I spent a fair bit on parts, and tooling is eating into road trip/vacation money...)

Anyhow - does anyone know anything that would help with popping ball joints loose? I'd like to be able to get this put to bed to-morrow and aligned Monday, since it's my wife's daily driver. That, and I really did need to vent some spleen...

5-90
 
If you do use the H-F press, you'll have to let us know if it worked. I picked one up and it works fine for U-joints. It's crappy enough that I will suggest you use gloves to avoid getting metal splinters.

I used a loaner press from Advance to do the ball joints. If you have a couple Advance in the area, they can look in their computer and let you know which shop has a loaner avail.

Advance is what we have here. I guess you'd have shucks or kragen or checkers in CA?
 
5-90 said:
So I'm doing the ball joints & steering linkage on one of my 89's, and I just needed to get this out...

The first one (driver's side upper) came out fine - the stud did. The housing is STILL IN THE DAMN YOKE!

So, I'm stopping to eat, then I'm going to the hardware store to see about fleshing out this damn HF press kit (I know, I know - but I spent a fair bit on parts, and tooling is eating into road trip/vacation money...)

Anyhow - does anyone know anything that would help with popping ball joints loose? I'd like to be able to get this put to bed to-morrow and aligned Monday, since it's my wife's daily driver. That, and I really did need to vent some spleen...

5-90

Not sure why your playing with the stud, but it will slide out as the top joint is more of a king pin, than a ball joint.

There is no alignment involved in replacing ball joints, you just replace them.

IIRC, you need to remove the top joint to access the bottom one. Clean the area around the top of the joint and remove the zerk. Select a die (or two, or three) from the assortment, so that the joint will slide into it when pressed out. It should only touch the Yoke and the "C" clamp, and not the Joint.

If you are not saving the top joint, heat the yoke with a torch, apply the "C" so that the threads are facing up and when tightened push the joint down, and insert the dies between the other side of the "C" and over the joint so that the dies rest on the Yoke and the "C" clamp, but not the Joint.

Then crank the crap out of the "C" clamp bolt. The heating will expand the yoke but the joint will still put up a fight. It will eventually "POP!".

After you remove the top joint, insert the threaded part of the "C" clamp up through the hole where the Upper joint was, and do the same thing to the bottom joint.

All pressing motion should be down. Be sure the die allows enough room for the joint to move when the pressing starts.

Insertion is opposite of removal. Put the dies on both sides of the joint. One protects the pin, and rests on the "collar" on the ball joint, and the other allows the joint to slide into the yoke. Do Top first then Bottom.

Last couple of these I did, when I remove the Uppers, they were OK, and I re-used them. The bottoms were trash.
Before you insert the axles, but after you install the knuckle, screw in a zerk and grease the bottom ones, then remove the zerk and insert the plug. Don't even try and assemble with a zerk in the bottom ;) Remember to install the zerk in the top joint and lube :)
 
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Damn press bent, so I'm knocking off for now. I'll see if I can get an OTC or similar later. The "flying end" is deflected about 1/8" - damn.

I've got a U-joint press - it just wasn't heavy enough to work on ball joints.

The alignment was due to the repalcement of busings and steering linkage as well - I can get it all close enough to serve me, but I prefer that she has every advantage in traffic she gan get. Besides, it's due, and I'll want it aligned before we get new tyres on it. And, it's our "long-distance" travel rig as well.

I also tried heating the yoke - I don't have a pencil torch, but I was careful to heat the yoke itself, rather than the balljoint housing. I also don't have a wide assortment of dies, but I did have one that fit over the body of the joint (checked on the new ones,) and I have an impact socket to use over the studs.

Advance, Kragens, and pretty much all the other chain stores (with limited NAPA exceptions...) are all staffed by droids, and I'd prefer to have my own tools anyhow, since I've got so many rigs. I never quite trust "borrowed" or "rented" tools, since I don't know what's happened to them before I get them, and Californians in general don't seem to value them as much as I do.

5-90
 
Yah, I figure I pick up about 1 tool a job :D I got this OTC balljoint press from my local autoparts store. He could see I was a DIYer and he hesitated to sell it to me for the retail price of $125, but when I just plain told him I would buy the tool, he let it go for $100. It does exactly what I wanted it to, and it does U-Joints much easier than a hammer and a socket :) I don't use it every day, but it has done 2 XJ Ball-joint jobs, and a number of u-joints. For my money, it has paid for itself a few times over.

You'll get the joints out, it will take time. Just be sure you are not working against yourself. Getting that die so it doesn't sit on the ball joint lip, but rests on the ear of the yoke is the trick there. The other is making sure you have enough headroom on the die to allow the ball joint to move.
I remember when I did my old 86', the pass side upper took just about everything I had to pull that wrench + pipe extension, then "POP!". I landed on my ascii and the joint was out. I don't know what the difference between the Harbour Freight model and mine, but there must be some difference.
 
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Probably heat-treat, since the Chinese never really have gotten that right. Even cast can be heat-treated, normalised, and annealed - it's just not as effective as when it is done on wrought stock.

Granted, I'm already starting ideas on a hydraulic version - just hold it in place, kick a switch, and wait. Reset, and do it again.

5-90
 
5-90 said:
Probably heat-treat, since the Chinese never really have gotten that right. Even cast can be heat-treated, normalised, and annealed - it's just not as effective as when it is done on wrought stock.

Granted, I'm already starting ideas on a hydraulic version - just hold it in place, kick a switch, and wait. Reset, and do it again.

5-90
Doesn't sound that hard to do. You could probably build a rig out of a short ram and a couple of pcs of angle iron, sort of like a manual press.

When you get it done, you'll have to do a write-up :D
 
Either that, or figure out how to make it low-buck (but still good!) and sell it through WiP. Should bring the cost of the finished product down to what you'd pay for parts individually.

Might also do a pneumatic version as well, if I get this going.

5-90
 
5-90, Check out the right up on http://www.madxj.com/ in the tech section for offset ball joints. Good right up and excellent pics. And if you can get a hold of the angled sleeves made just for our jeeps by Specialty Products, it makes it a lot easier to start the new upper ball joint in straight.

Kyung
 
Ya feel better now Jon? I know a few ppl that have had good luck with HF press, not us, ours bent too. Son is going to get one off the Snap-On truck and try it out, way more $$$ but he figures we can return it no ??? asked .

You might try contacting HF and see if they'll take it back, we are, they have usually been pretty good about returns, think it all depends on who you talk to. My compressor wound up among the mising, the first person I spoke to was of the attitude" we got your money,goodbye" the second was nicer and issued a resend order and did the leg work with UPS so I wouldn't have to wait 30-60 days. Turned out it was dropped off at my neighbors seasonal home....DUH!!!
Will let you know how the S/O press works out.
 
The stud staying in the knuckle from the upper ball joint happens all the time. Just use a hammer and whack the stud out of the spindle, it'll come out pretty easy with one good hit. I DO NOT recommend heating the yoke around the ball joint on the axle, you don't want to risk deforming the axle any. With a good press heat will not be necessary. If you do heat it, make sure you let it sit and get COMPLETELY cold before pressing the new ball joint in there.

Harbor Freight does have a lot of cheap made-in-China tools, as you experienced. A good ball joint press from OTC, MAC, Snap-On, etc is gonna cost you an arm and a leg. That kind of thing is considered shop equipment, and unless you own a shop a rented one will work fine...a backyard mechanic shouldn't need it that often, it's not worth buying. Oh, and there is a power version...it's called a good press with an impact gun on the socket instead of a ratchet, works great :D
 
corbinafly said:
5-90, Check out the right up on http://www.madxj.com/ in the tech section for offset ball joints. Good right up and excellent pics. And if you can get a hold of the angled sleeves made just for our jeeps by Specialty Products, it makes it a lot easier to start the new upper ball joint in straight.

Kyung

Yep - I printed that and took it out to the garage with me...

5-90
 
5-90 said:
Yep - I printed that and took it out to the garage with me...

5-90

Has anybody tried to use a ball joint separator (fork) on the lower ball joint
while beating on the knuckle at the same time?
I believe that the lower BJ is the main part that keeps the knuckle from coming off. If a fork will fit the lower knuckle, it would help if you hit both.
Last time I replaced ball joints I dropped the knuckle by hammering it only.
There must be a better way.
 
I used a 3# cross-peen hammer on the "strike surface" of the knuckle (with the cross peen on the knuckle, just to concentrate the striking) and then used a 4# drilling hammer (think: shorty sledgehammer) to whack the thing. I'll put it back together using copper-based anti-seize so I don't have to fight so much with it next time.

On a side note, I talked Purchasing (hint - she wears the other ring in this set) into ordering an OTC press, which came in yesterday. I've got to finish some coursework over the next couple afternoons, but I anticipate it suddenly being rather easier to press the joints in and out... Got it through Amazon.com for about $90, including shipping.

5-90
 
One thing that really helps is to be able to cut some sleeves at an angle.The knuckle casting isnt square to the ball joint,after that the tool will settle right in.
 
got a pep boys close? They rent/return a really good ball joint press and they have the adapter kit for XJ's with the angled sleeves. If I had the cash I would have kept the whole shebang. John
 
Matthew Currie said:
I guess I should be glad I bought that OTC press a couple of years ago at a tag sale for 5 bucks.

Ghod, you suck.

Well, having gotten the OTC in and been able to put it to work, I can honestly say that it's a MARKED improvement over the HF (yeah, like I expected OTC to suck...) and I've finally got one side done. I'll probably do the other to-morrow afternoon, and then it's just put the steering linkage together and get it aligned. Finally. Damn.

Here's the trick - get the thing set up, put a 1/2" ratchet and 7/8" socket on it (I broke a 3/8" drive...) and a 1"x3' pipe "cheater bar." Use a smooth, even rowing motion to break loose - don't jerk, just a nice, even pull. It also helps to heat the knuckle up to several hundred degrees using a torch, if the thing is REALLY sticking!

The lower joint comes out FAR easier than the upper!

Take a small wire brush in a drill, and clean the bores. Lubricate the bores and the ball joint housings with never-seez (I used copper-based, rather than nickel/aluminum-based, but I have the stuff handy) and press in smoothly. Again, an even rowing motion gets the job done, but you shouldn't have to use the cheater bar to get them in. Both joints go in FAR easier than they come out!

One more once - DO NOT waste your money buying Harbour Freight for this job! New shop rule - if I expect to put more than my own weight on the thing in terms of force, HF just won't cut it. I didn't bend the back beam (that would have been easier on my back,) but I bent the short beam on the end, and bent the other short beam enough to loosen thread engagement for the ram. Damn thing hardly fits back in the case.

Note to self - don't bother buying anything steel/iron that hasn't been heat treated...

5-90
 
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