Chevy Small Block

[90red]

How hard would it be for me to install a Chevy small block in my 90 XJ? I would probably go with a carbuerated motor with a 700R4 overdrive transmission. Is there a site that I can go to and get some instructions and a list of the things I would need to make the swap? Thanks for all your help guys.

90red

[BILLXJ]

..I assume you mean as in "hard",as in dollars and cents?- The choice of a small block Chevy 350 V-8 will start somewhere at $2,000.00-up depending on what your additional preferences are.-In my own personal choice of a engine for the Jeep Cherokee XJ 1985-86 I have elected to go with a 1995 Chevrolet LT1 350 V-8 5.7 liter carbureted engine
and a Chevy 700R-4 transmission .For additional details,see the information available at Advanced Adapters and in the archives at NAXJA . The subject and choice of an suitable engine swap/replacement seems to come up here at the NAXJA Modification forum about every other month,so you should be able to comb the archives for more information. There is a aluminum Be Cool manufactored radiator that you will in all probablility need and use for the additional cooling with a larger V-8 engine and here is some of the specifications. to be about 1.5 gal for the rad. The cooling surface is 30.75 x <11.25
Thickness is 3" Tanks are 2.75 wide
Passenger outlet just short of 4 from bottom, 7.5 from top Drivers side outlet 3.875 from top, 7.5 from bottom.
( cost $600.00 ) dollars !!
Griffin radiator or Superior Radiator,Be Cool Radiator can also supply this for you at different costs from $500.00- $700.00 dollars .
There is an optional intake setup that I chose rather than the more powerful stock fuel-injected system .This carbureted intake manifold can
be purchased from either your local Chevy dealer or though PaceParts online if you so chose. I am at the present time installing/refineing a 1997-Ford Explorer 8.8 rear-axle with disc brakes ($500.00-$600.00) All in all,..Not too much of a problem.
Also since many of the American made components( Chevrolet+Ford,etc.) are so widely abundant(..and CHEAP..) and Jeep Cherokee XJ parts are so interchangeable and abundant with other vehicle components ,both foriegn and domestic ,that..in this particular
engine swap that this is really a very good cost efficient project. In this instance and with many others at the Modification forum I did/do most of the mechanical work on my ole 1986 XJ 2.5-2.8 liter to go to about triple the horsepower with the small block Chevy 5.7 liter.The value of this engine swap rises in some inverse econonmic proportion to what you personally do.
any case with your choice,
Good Luck
-BILLXJ

[THE_OWL]

why wouldnt u keep the fuel injection?
gas mileage
angle of operation
maintenance
emissions
hood clearance.

Fuel Injection rox!

[dave]

you wouldnt keep the fuel injection because of the optispark distributor that is allergic to water, the horrible intake location , and because it makes the electrical work that much easier...

that being said.. i did stick with the FI . i'll be fabbing a snorkel and perhaps going to a distributorless system that electromotive makes....

[M. Lake]

What about motor mounts?

[dave]

motor mounts - use the cradle type... novak and advanced adapters both manufacture them

[THE_OWL]

I guess Im the lucky one. I have my distributor in the back, throttle body on top (facing up). and a fully programmable ECU with in dash adjustments.
I dont think the intake on a TPI/LT1 is in a bad spot. its especially easy to add a snorkel to.

I would think a crate motor would be a better project to start with if you plan on going Carb. the LT1 isnt that strong of a motor
Rods/pistons and 2bolt make it less desirable (and ironically more expensive) than the older engines
just 2cents worth of ascii
\\hoot

[dave]

owl .. seriously SPOBI.. as you know police package caprices and corvette came with 4 bolt main LT1s.. only f body cars and impalas got 2 bolt mains.. as for strength.. 350 hp and 475 ft / lbs of torque is plenty of motor for me. if you dont think the intake or distributor are in a bad spot.. try running mud with one. i'm happy you have in dash this and programmable this thats really wonderful. some of us dont have the cash for a crate motor and a salvaged v-8 is what works and fits the budget... just do a little homework before you tell everyone that lt1's are " weak"

[BILLXJ]

,..my crate motor from off Ebay $750.00 shipped from Dallas.-LT1 or LT4 carbureted manifold from Pace Performance online $240.00-Be Cool radiator $600.00- Mallory rear-mounted electronic distributor $209.00-The rest of the items(exhaust manifolds,Chevy 78-88. etc..I forget..) can be procured at your own timely pace.(..shop around in your local pick+pull "bone-yards..) and of course the FOR SALE items here at NAXJA.-Oh ,..and Owl,..even with the "de-tuned" carbureted version the Chevrolet LT1 350HP/475ft/lbs V-8 is light and "very strong" indeed!
BILLXJ

[THE_OWL]

actually I own a LT1 powered car. SPOBI
they NEVER EVER EVER came with 350HP. Never
. The 9C1 package is the same motor, tranny, HD cooling and alternator as the Impala SS.
F-Body and Y-Body used the aluminum heads and here rated at 285 for z28 and 305 for SS. 1997 had the 310HP rating
Heres some
Research Tools (http://www.google.com)
for your next thread.
Are we talking the old LT1 bill or the new, Because the 1990s LT1 didnt come carbed

[dave]

who said it was stock? the motor is " massaged " gently... The motor i have is from a 95 caprice with the police package.. so yes it is a 4 bolt main and yes it was rated stock at 300 hp or so.. its worked slightly. with light engine mods and computer work. my motor with all the accessories with a trans and adapter under what most crate motors with their accessories cost by themselves. i will not be making this a pissing match as to " my motor is better than yours " .. just dont give out jaded opinions to people who just want information.

[LT1XJ]

I agree with the optispark being allergic to water, however I don't see a problem with the intake location on the LT1. And the electromotive distributorless setup, it is supposedly a project that was terminated. There are a few out there, but good luck finding one. I have yet to find one that someone will part with. I try to keep my eyes open on the LT1 and ss forums. I think in all actuality a tbi setup is a lot easier to deal with. or an LS1, but I won't get into that. LT1's are pretty common now, I paid 2g for mine with the tranny and everything from the camaro. But I pulled it all myself. Now you can get it all for a lot less. Or that LS1 sounds tasty. That is my next plan, I'll just add it to my 500 other projects. PM me if you want some info from my swap.
Dustin

[THE_OWL]

so me saying its weak is jaded, but you saying its the stronger than crate isnt? Your opinion is the optispark sux, intake location sucks and the Electrical is a nightmare. To me that seems a tad more "jaded"
350HP is only going to come with modified hard parts. cam, head work, lower end
not "air intake" and headers. And that gets to my point about "BUILDING" as opposed to "pulling"
As for your fabbed snorkel, if you have ever tried to "fab" one for a 5-1/8" carb, then you would appreciate the location and design of the throttle body on a LT1. It doesnt even need to be fabbed, you can use a stock elbow and factory airbox with about $5 worth of parts from the Home Depot.
And if it is a pissing match on engines , my LT1 did 374HP and 515ft/lbs :D at the wheels.
My point of this whole thing was, if you plan on going Carb, its better to start or build an engine that was designed for carb.
Vice versa on a Fuelie
9C1 had Iron Heads and is rated at 260HP. Our dyno Days for the B-Body club showed stock numbers of 225-231 at the wheels calibrated
Dyno Results (http://www.swcp.com/impalass/Dynodays.htm)

[90red]

Okay guys, I was looking more for instructions, or where to get instructions, rather than my engine can beat up your engine. The engine I will be using will be one I rebuild. It will more than likely be an early to mid 70's block. What kind of exhaust problems am I looking at here. Also, what about all of the sensors for the 4.0 that wont be used on a older chevy small block. Will the truck still run with the sensors not in use. I am assuming I will have to run my own wires for the ignition. I would really appreciate it if you guys could direct me to some info on this. Thanks for all your help. NAXJA rules.

Thanks guys
90red

[THE_OWL]

I persoanlly dont know of any write up about the details.
But I can give you some pointers on problem areas.
Exhaust Manifolds will be tight. AA makes some crappy ones, rams horns work well and can be as good as headers if ported. I hear Impala SS headers will fit, but your 70s block will have different ports on the heads.
Oil filter will need to be relocated, hood clearance for carbs is very close.
No sensors will be needed that I can think of.
I believe your year of Jeep has only one wire that truly goes hot on key on, so a solenoid or heavy duty relay will be needs.
Front diff and track bar will be really close to oil pan, so higher the lift the better. Exhaust running is also tight, you will need to remove your iin tank fuel pump and get a regular 10psi or so pump.
your tach will be off, and voltmeter may be off as well.
clutch fans will be very tight fit as well. Most run electrics.
you will need an adaptor for you T-Case also.
Im sure there is a lot im forgetting.

[dave]

90 red.. sorry for the " pissing match" .. in my case the headers had to be chopped up to clear the framerails, however mine is an 87 and my friend has an lt1 in an 89 and did not have to modify his headers at all. apparently 89 + cherokees have a tiny bit wider framerails. headers designed for an impala ss were what we used. you're a manual trans so a trans computer doesnt matter. the electrical work will just take a little time.. but look at it this way.. you can cut the idiot lights out of the dash and mount all the switches for you accessories in a handy location now :D

[dave]

oh i'll also recommend running dual spal fans.. they work awesome. there is a company that makes steel cowl hoods for xj's now , that may help you with your hood clearance problem.. something i'll also say is when you get the adapter for trans to tcase.. if its the AA one there are weeps holes and clocking holes in them that leak a little bit... once you have the adapter lined up fill those weep and other clocking holes with some silicon or something.. the two xj's i know of with lt1s and this adapter both leak and i'd assume you'd use a th350 or 400 which is pretty much the same thing as a 4l60. if you are using an older block and the distributor is int he back you might have to clearance the firewall with a BFH.. if i think of anything else i'll post it...

oh and i'm not a fan of the build your own header kits either <<< jaded opinion

[THE_OWL]

your adaptor leaks too?
owl thought he was the only one :D
He mentioned he was going to use 700R4.
Careful about spline counts.
My NP242 is/was 21 spline and I had to get a $300 output shaft.
Now im going to an Atlas and I have to order a special T-Case thats weaker, cuz Im not about to rip my Trans apart again.

[dave]

yeah the stupid weap holes leak.. i've just been too lazy to pull them apart and silicon the holes. AA says that they are all made like that and its a design flaw.. that they arent going to change.. Lovely isnt it :D i'm doing the whole atlas/dana 300/ np205 debate in my head right now.... i'm leaning towards the 300 cause its smaller than the 205, and i can flip it and clock it , get it in.. then put the 4 to 1 kit in it once i get the cash for it, instead of dropping 2 grand i dont have to do an atlas.

[LT1XJ]

Man, my transmission and AA adapter are the only things on my jeep that don't leak. Theya have a few different adapters. Also Novak has some. Don't get me wrong, I love the LT1 in my XJ, It is just difficult to gauge how serious you are. I figured bolting a carb on my FI jeep would be downgrading even if it was a 350. I was intent on not giving anything up that was currently on my jeep, except the lack of power. ;) So I kept FI, A/C, Cruise, etc. So if you want to be up to date, the things to swap are 4.7's or LS1's. You want a good solid motor an LT1 is a good choice. If you are a carb man, go buy a ZZ4 crate motor, throw a carb on and forget about it. For the transmission, I really can't see going with anything other than the 700r4. Again, I was not going to go from an overdrive auto to a 3spd. I know its reliability is argueable, but they can be built pretty tough. My second 700r4 is up to the task apparently. And lastly, An engine swap is by no means a cheap way to get more power, it will however make you smile.
That has to be about a nickels worth.
Dustin

[chadc]

I may have no right here, I still have the 4.0. Personally I don't think it can be beat. I have thought about an 8, and it would be fun to say I had one. But my thoughts are why get rid of a good pulling engine that will give you 300,000 miles with no complaints. I almost wonder if it wouldn't be better to beef up the 4.0. Yeah the brighter the light the shorter the burn, so a modified 4.0 could get 200,000 miles. I'am far from an engine builder but in my personal opinion the staight six is a damn relible motor with good pulling power, I can't say that when it's time for a motor I won't go 8, but dang I love the six.
just my thought's, probably not even 2 cents worth
chadc

[THE_OWL]

did you say "dang" ?

[chadc]

dang I did say dang, dang it

[BILLXJ]

,..with all due respect to the passionate comment by chac about the tried and true 4.0 ,I used to feel the same way about my ole underpowered 2.8 liter. I replaced the complete engine at some enormous expense exactly three times based on just that type of sentiment and the prevailing local myopic advice "that it would no longer be a Jeep Cherokee with a small-block engine".I thought this was my only option,..until I found my way unto the Modification forum and a more reasoned view of the benefits of the use of the small-block.-

[xjjunkie]

if you are worried about the optispark, just do like we do and convert the optispark to the individual coil packs from a ls-1.


scot

[dave]

i actually found a local guy around here that uses an lt-4 in a mud bog racer and he is going to help me with a pretty ingenious setup that he uses on his racers...

as for the 4.0L deal.. my room mate built up his 4.0L its now a 4.6 .. balanced , blueprinted etc etc.. its maxed out now cept for a SC and he isnt making what my motor made stock... if i did just an lt4 hotcam kit... i'd be making ungodly hp. ungodly torque and i'd still come in under what he did.. and i could still hook my motor up to my snapon scanner and it would still tell me what was wrong with it if i was having a problem :D

-Dave aka the guy with the mutt jeep chevy motor and trans, jeep tcase, ford axles and seats out of a honda :D

[chadc]

Damn it guys, know you got me thinking. I intend to run my 4.0 into the ground before swapping, or modifying. it has a 120000 on it so it's gonna be a day or two before a swap. Chevy seems to be the common 8. Has anyone done an amc 8, yeah they are a dinosaur, but it will mount to the aw4, ax15 etc. The cps would need to be relocated, and the tps would need to be addressed, a friend of mine said he has that figured out. Or the amc t400 could be run behind the amc 8. And I don't feel a v8 swap doesn't make it an xj. When I go to the parts store I might need parts from an xj, an isuzu, a chevy, or a dodge. I'm almost at the point I need to right down makes and years down to keep it straight. But it's still an xj.
chadc

[THE_OWL]

Just a Lt4 hotcam wont cut it. Unfortunatly u need to do the rockers and Torque Converter or you lose ALL bottom end.
Although the whole kit together which some Goodwrench shops sell, will give you amazing results without a lot of money.

chadc if you're do a big motor swap, you will want to lose the XJ tranny. If I had to do it again and wasnt worried about doing 70mph on the freeway. The Powerglide Iron cased Tranny is the strongest out there, but its a 2speed :D
As far as the parts issue at Autozone, If it isnt bolt on from the manufacturers, you will need to order parts from ALL kinds of vehicles.
The D44 front swappers usually do Chevy Brakes and such.
yeah its a nightmare sorta. My fuel injection setup uses mostly all TPI parts from late 80s and a few ford sensors and stuff. And we all know the guy at PepBoys can only lookup parts for your year/make/model. :(

[rixXJphx]

Originally posted by chadc
.....And I don't feel a v8 swap doesn't make it an xj. When I go to the parts store I might need parts from an xj, an isuzu, a chevy, or a dodge. I'm almost at the point I need to right down makes and years down to keep it straight. But it's still an xj.
chadc
That's the way all AMC's were built from the sixties onward: somethings from Lansing, somethings from the Rouge, as little as possible from Toledo.

Recall that the original WWII Jeeps were invented by Bantam, who wasn't allowed to build them. Ford and assorted others built them, with a sh!tload of parts that interchanged regardless of who did the assembly.

[LT1XJ]

I am all for staying jeep with the amc motor. I just think that an XJ is not the best platform for it. My GW has a 360 and I would not really think of swapping to something else, ok well maybe a little bit. I might consider a 360 in an xj with a nice FI setup. But again a 350 is going to be a lot easier and cheaper. And don't get me started on the pepboys guys, they are the worst of all of them. Just give me the darn keyboard or the book and I'll beat you with it when I am done finding my part.
XJjunkie- have you actually swapped an optispark for LS1 coilpacks. I have heard of it, but figured it was one of those things. I was really looking into the electromotive kit, but they pretty much axed it. Or I could just forget about it and upgrade to an LS1. But, I figure eventually an LT1 in an XJ will be as cool as it was when I first did it.
Dustin

[BILLXJ]

..rixXJphx ,..hits the point right on the head ,when he says "Ford and assorted others built them, with a sh!tload of parts that interchanged regardless of who did the assembly."- Any good student of history will remember when the old Chrsyler manufacturer was in bankruptcy,.. various other vendors/suppliers loaned them parts/assistance etc.,as and as a former automotive assembly worker I can personally testify to the fact that GM engineered products,..(2.8 liter V-6,-transfer cases,etc)to construct the XJ.- By default or deliberate design,.. to me this represents the unique Yankee ingenuity of the XJ ,that it is a light-weight modular platform that lends itself to be inexpensively modified/re-engineered with many interchangeable parts,.. unlike many other vehicles.-..okay maybe I'm gushing here,..but anybody up for the "new and improved Jeep KJ " from the Damiler-Chrsyler-Mercedes wunderkinder..?
BILLXJ

[THE_OWL]

Whos gonna do the Caddy Northstar swap. thats the one I want to see. with a TH400. thats a combo that will save some serious weight and net 300hp
About the parts issue. I tried to get a set of timkens for my D44 "factory" rearend at the "Zone" and the guy told me Cherokees never came with a 44, according to his computer. He told me to go home and double check that it isnt a D35
Needless to say the cops were there 10minutes later and I have a 500ft restraining order now. No Not really, it was just a quick daydream while he was ringing me up for my new set of Fast and Furious seat covers

[rixXJphx]

Originally posted by THE_OWL
Whos gonna do the Caddy Northstar swap. thats the one I want to see. with a TH400. thats a combo that will save some serious weight and net 300hp.
Yeah, this makes me drool during my daydresms, too. :D

BUT, the facts of the matter are that a dumb ole cam-in-block OHV iron engine, whether I-4, I-6, or V-8 (note the exclusion of the GM V-6) is infinitely more dependable in the backwoods than some multi-cam aluminum screamer.