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OVER MY HEAD.

Ben H

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fresno
Basics: 2000 XJ, 4.0, AW4, NP231, No significant engine modifications.

It all started about 4 weeks ago when I threw a Check Engine Light (CEL). I started a thread here about oxygen sensors:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85229

I had figured that was the end of my electronical trouble for the time being. At the same time I had been stalling at idle, so I replaced my Idle Air Control (IAC) with a trail spare that I keep. Worked well as the stalling stopped. I also replace the MAP, and Throttle Posistion Sensor (TPS) while I had the throttle body off for cleaning. I threw on a spare TB and it had been running fine. Last week the CEL came on once again, and the same problem as in the thread above refering to oxygen sensor problems. So I took my 3 week old OS2 sensor back and exchanged it for a new one. Then I drove it up to the San Jose Basin just outside of Fresno for some mild wheeling (turned out to be pretty hard in places. One place in particular I had come down into what looked like a small mud puddle but turned out to be 3' deep. This might me part of the problem, but I doubt it because it ran fine for the next 2 days). Anyway back to the problem at hand. After the trip up to the mountains, I drove 180 miles to the coast to go to work. This morning I start it up and get about 2 miles off the ranch, and it starts to stumble and then dies, and throws a CEL. I start it back up and figure it is my Crank Posistion Sensor (CPS) or my TPS. I limp it home 10' at a time, every time I touched the gas pedal it sputtered, droped RPM's, then died. Once I get back to the shop, I changed out the TPS, IAC, and the MAP sensors one at a time to try to isolate the problem. No solution and now it wont start at all. So I order a new CPS and it will get here tomorrow. A good friend and a 30 year mechanic was out here working on one of the vinyard trucks offered some assistance. We hooked up the scanner and it returned these codes:
P1391: Intermittent Loss of CMP or CKP(Crank Shaft Sensor)
PO700: EATX Controller DTC Present
PO353: Ignition Coil #3 Primary Circuit
PO352: Ignition Coil #2 Primary Circuit
PO351: Ignition Coil #1 Primary Circuit
PO123: Accelerator Posistion Sensor (APPS) Signal Voltage too Low

At this point I am freaking out (what the *&%)!
We Start with the TPS and find that the computer is reading it at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). We check the wires that lead from the TPS to the PCM are fine and have no fluxuation when seperated from the PCM. We then come to the conclusion that the computer is shorted or fried. I take the PCM apart and it looked fine. All of the pins were clean and in shape. Then its Corona time to think. Then I want to check the TPS voltage (which should read at 5 volts, but had been reading at 5.94 volts) with the CPS disconnected. And low and behold it was reading dead on 5.0 volts. When I plugged the CPS back in the Shut down relay started to click over along with the electric fan. Then I quit messing with it until tomorrow. I guess my question is can a CPS cause all of this or is the motherboard toast? Anybody want to buy or trade for a well built 2000XJ as is? J/K. Any help on this would is greatly needed as this is a little much for a simple shade tree mechanic.
 
Ben, a shorted crank sensor could very well be causing your problem but usually it won't fire at all if it is shorted and you can't pull codes or have anything work while it is connected. Replacing it might not be a bad idea at this point. Because it is a 2000 with the rail coil ignition system, there are known problems with the oil pump drive/cam sensor assy(it goes in where the distributor used to go). Again, that will usually cause a no-start or stall condition. The sensor connector should be sitting at I belive is the 3 o'clock position, make sure it hasnt moved. Sometimes you can see where it moved by looking at where the hold down bracket touches the drive assy, there will be fresh scratch marks visible if it has moved. If this is the case, get yourself the oil pump drive and maybe even a cam sensor too. You will have to time it too so be careful or you won't ever get it to start again.
 
Thanks Bryan. I will look into that if the CPS doesnt fix it. If it has the Cam sensor has moved, is it servicable? Or should I pony up for a replacement?

Flip94ta, $100 bucks on average of the 5 parts places, I called. Its not so much the $100, its the $100 spent on somthing that may or may not make it run. I find this kind of problem a royal PITA, just for the uncertainty of it all. I just hope it isnt the circuit board $610 listed, ouch!
 
Ben H said:
Thanks Bryan. I will look into that if the CPS doesnt fix it. If it has the Cam sensor has moved, is it servicable? Or should I pony up for a replacement?

Flip94ta, $100 bucks on average of the 5 parts places, I called. Its not so much the $100, its the $100 spent on somthing that may or may not make it run. I find this kind of problem a royal PITA, just for the uncertainty of it all. I just hope it isnt the circuit board $610 listed, ouch!

The bearings in the oil pump drive unit go bad and cause the whole assembly to move out of time. The sensor is probably OK.
 
Bryan C. said:
The bearings in the oil pump drive unit go bad and cause the whole assembly to move out of time. The sensor is probably OK.

Are there any symptoms of the bearings wearing out? Or do they just give? I just got my CPS and am going to swap it now. We'll see.
 
CPS was not the problem. I looked really hard at the Cam sensor, and it has definatley move. I am assuming that if the bearings seazed up then that would torque the sensor out of posistion. On to the cam sensor.
BTW that crank sensor needed to be replaced, but what a royal PITA, extra set of hands finished it.
 
Bryan C. said:
The bearings in the oil pump drive unit go bad and cause the whole assembly to move out of time. The sensor is probably OK.

The distributor (or cam position sensor on DIS models) is driven by a gear that meshes with the gear teeth on the camshaft, and the oil pump shaft has a fork that meshes with the distributor (or cam position sensor) shaft. Therefore both the dizzy (or cam PS) and the oil pump depend on the dizzy drive gear meshing properly with the cam gear in order to work properly.
If the dizzy (or cam PS) drive gear wears out, the result is too much rotational play in the dizzy and this throws off the injector pulse timing. Remove the cam position sensor and check the condition of the drive gear teeth.
 
I pulled the oil pump drive and the bearings are shot. It had twisted with some heavy force as the block side of the drive was marred up from the retaining clip. New drive and sensor will be here tommorrow.

I dont have a DRB tool or a good snap on scanner at my disposal. I don't have my FSM. I have left most of my tools and FSM about 4 hours away at home. I am stuck about 30 miles from the nearest gas station. I had my best girl fax me the section out of the FSM on replacing the oil pump drive. Bryan had mentioned that it needed to be timed, but the FSM says to not adjust the ignition timing and the DRB reading is only to adjust fuel synchonization.

So if I install the new oil pump drive and dont scan it, will it run well enough for me to get it to a mechanic with a DRB scanner to adjust he fuel synchonization, or will I have to get a mechanic out to the ranch? The FSM states that the scanner is used to "verify the correct rotational posistion of the oil pump drive". Will I mess somthing up if I dont "verify", or just get it close?
 
I have started a new thread moving away from the crank sensor to the cam sensor and oil pump drive for lack of confusion and to get some good info on this forum for this problem as I havent found any information on here regarding this on late model xjs:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87103

Thank you all for your help.
 
voltage voltage voltage can cause strange thing in the later stuff. disconect the alt and try a new battery. let me know if that helps.
 
jcjeepnut said:
voltage voltage voltage can cause strange thing in the later stuff. disconect the alt and try a new battery. let me know if that helps.


that is not the problem. thanks though. replaced PCM and it runs.
 
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